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I'm not new to GM'ing but this will be my first time running PFRP 1E. I played it a bunch of times back in the day.
So, this campaign will star a group of no-goods. Characters will be selfish or evil in alignment and the idea is for players to pick a humanoid race - orc, goblin, troll, wolfen, etc. Palladium showcases some interesting race choices not typical for the standard AD&D game. Witch, assassin, anti-paladin, thief, clergy of darkness or just selfish aligned wizard or fighter is all up for grabs.

All alignments would need to "align," enough so they can work together as a group. A bunch of diabolics running around will probably be a short lived campaign. An example is, if all character's were aberrant then they could be part of a military faction of an evil kingdom. Maybe one PC would need to be a higher rank to keep order. Or a mix of selfish with a miscreant or aberrant…
Should be fun and a nice change of pace from the norm. Thoughts, suggestions, adventure ideas or just fun talk on the subject is welcome.

yeah, i have a thought...when are you playing and can i join?!?

Franko Tyrador wrote:yeah, i have a thought...when are you playing and can i join?!?

Hah! Thanks! I'm 50 and have been gaming a long time and mixing things up is very interesting to me right now. Really, anything is possible, even evil or selfish driven games if the GM and players have good attitudes towards it.

If the players bring too much heat down on themselves then there could be consequences for it and the players really help write their own story.

Some of the earlier Rifters had some optional thoughts on Assassins and Pirates (if you are also using Book 3: The High Seas), with some of each article dealing with (and opening up) alignments. After checking, it looks like that is Rifter 2 and 6, if you have access to either of those. Might be a source of ideas for your and/or your players.

I have never tried to run a longer game with that sort of group of PCs, but that is mostly just my preference. I don't allow summoners or witches in my games, because I don't want to have to drag my imagination through what bargains would have to be struck on a regular basis. I have no issue using them for enemies though... And I do sometimes run one-shot games with PCs that are definitely on the shady side.

Sounds like something a group could get into pretty easily. I would say the main thing is for them to have a reason to be together and united so that it doesn't all fall apart in a flurry of backstabbing before the game can progress very far.

Kraynic wrote:Some of the earlier Rifters had some optional thoughts on Assassins and Pirates (if you are also using Book 3: The High Seas), with some of each article dealing with (and opening up) alignments. After checking, it looks like that is Rifter 2 and 6, if you have access to either of those. Might be a source of ideas for your and/or your players.

I have never tried to run a longer game with that sort of group of PCs, but that is mostly just my preference. I don't allow summoners or witches in my games, because I don't want to have to drag my imagination through what bargains would have to be struck on a regular basis. I have no issue using them for enemies though... And I do sometimes run one-shot games with PCs that are definitely on the shady side.

Sounds like something a group could get into pretty easily. I would say the main thing is for them to have a reason to be together and united so that it doesn't all fall apart in a flurry of backstabbing before the game can progress very far.

Yeah, this is just meant to be fun for a limited amount of time. However, if it's successful then maybe we can pick it back up again.
My idea of evil for the players is more the comic book variety and our group is mature so no issues with everyone being on the same page. I have no desire to RP certain aspects of evil behaviour. It's all just meant to be in fun.
I have no issues with someone being a witch because as GM I'm the one running his Lord and establishing the guard rails. And many demon lords can hate each other so good reason to have the witch sack another evil temple. I'd also try to convince a player that Bes might not be the best choice to make a major pact with.
Of course, if it all goes down the toilet then it might be a short campaign. We will see.

aberrant works pretty well, have their own code of honour.
Necromancers aren't necromancers, but have weird abilities.
Rodent Druids are funny
Werecreatures too.
But if you want really evil let someone play a mind mage.
I also like goblin cobblers
But it also depends on what level is involved, are they starting at level 1?

Well, I ran a game with a group that wasn't DESIGNED to be full of no-gooders, it just happened tha most of the PCs in the group were reprobates. It has advantages and disadvantages as a GM and it does require a bit more thinking.

One thing you need to consider before you start is the legal and law enforcement system in your world. What are the laws, what are the punishments for the laws, and what is the judicial system like? Is there a presumption of innocence? Are there attorneys? Are there judges or juries? Do they use Words of Truth to compell truthful testimony?

The other side of this is the law enforcement (dun dun!). Who investigates crimes? What are their capacities? Do they have magic or psionics? Are they open to bribes? Do they look the other way on some crimes or with crimes committed against certain races or people?

I ask this because it's very likely the group will bend or break a few laws if they're in civilization. Unless they're really careful about the crimes they commit, they're going to be investiated and maybe caught. If they are to be careful, they'll need to know what the authorities are capable of so that they can plan their crime or at least cover their tracks. If they don't, then how much will the authorities hound them? Will someone powerful hire bounty hunters or adventurers to hunt them down?

If they are out of civilization then it's much easier. You only need to worry about the people they meet. The group will very likely have no compunctins against torture, killing prisoners, or robbery. But what happens when/if someone gets the drop on them? Do you have the NPCs treat the PCs they way the PCs treat the NPCs? It's tough when the party kills a bunch of prisoners because it's easier then dealing with them, but why wouldn't someone else do the same to them?

Now here are the advantages for you as a GM. The group might spend so much time creating drama that you won't need to set up a lot of things. You just have the world react to them. You also might have the PCs backstabbing each other so much that it will be fun to watch. They also might have such little teamwork that arguments fire up and varying motives clash into all sorts of interesting situations.

The disadvantages are that the group might not work together and fail repeatedly because of that lack of cohesion. They also can make more work for you when you need the world to react to their actions and you need to apply consquences. And it can be difficult to create a reason for the group to be together, in game. The players will likely work together a little bit because they will all be real people talking to the characters being played by the GM. It's meta-gaming, but it will generally keep the group together because people usually don't want to upset the other people.

Now, in game, you might need to find a reason for them to remain together. Maybe they're related, or they have to band together against a greater enemy, eventhough they don't like each other. They could be part of an organization with a strong hierarchy (military, thieves guild, etc.) that can create consequences for stepping out of line.

-Vek
"If you want, PM me, and I can act as the authorities or what have you to take the burden of tracking your PCs."

kiralon wrote:aberrant works pretty well, have their own code of honour.
Necromancers aren't necromancers, but have weird abilities.
Rodent Druids are funny
Werecreatures too.
But if you want really evil let someone play a mind mage.
I also like goblin cobblers
But it also depends on what level is involved, are they starting at level 1?

I agree. goblin cobblers are cool and we'll see if someone picks a mind mage. I'll make a post describing the group when they're done.

Yes, they are 1st level.

Veknironth wrote:Well, I ran a game with a group that wasn't DESIGNED to be full of no-gooders, it just happened tha most of the PCs in the group were reprobates. It has advantages and disadvantages as a GM and it does require a bit more thinking.

One thing you need to consider before you start is the legal and law enforcement system in your world. What are the laws, what are the punishments for the laws, and what is the judicial system like? Is there a presumption of innocence? Are there attorneys? Are there judges or juries? Do they use Words of Truth to compell truthful testimony?

The other side of this is the law enforcement (dun dun!). Who investigates crimes? What are their capacities? Do they have magic or psionics? Are they open to bribes? Do they look the other way on some crimes or with crimes committed against certain races or people?

I ask this because it's very likely the group will bend or break a few laws if they're in civilization. Unless they're really careful about the crimes they commit, they're going to be investiated and maybe caught. If they are to be careful, they'll need to know what the authorities are capable of so that they can plan their crime or at least cover their tracks. If they don't, then how much will the authorities hound them? Will someone powerful hire bounty hunters or adventurers to hunt them down?

If they are out of civilization then it's much easier. You only need to worry about the people they meet. The group will very likely have no compunctins against torture, killing prisoners, or robbery. But what happens when/if someone gets the drop on them? Do you have the NPCs treat the PCs they way the PCs treat the NPCs? It's tough when the party kills a bunch of prisoners because it's easier then dealing with them, but why wouldn't someone else do the same to them?

Now here are the advantages for you as a GM. The group might spend so much time creating drama that you won't need to set up a lot of things. You just have the world react to them. You also might have the PCs backstabbing each other so much that it will be fun to watch. They also might have such little teamwork that arguments fire up and varying motives clash into all sorts of interesting situations.

The disadvantages are that the group might not work together and fail repeatedly because of that lack of cohesion. They also can make more work for you when you need the world to react to their actions and you need to apply consquences. And it can be difficult to create a reason for the group to be together, in game. The players will likely work together a little bit because they will all be real people talking to the characters being played by the GM. It's meta-gaming, but it will generally keep the group together because people usually don't want to upset the other people.

Now, in game, you might need to find a reason for them to remain together. Maybe they're related, or they have to band together against a greater enemy, eventhough they don't like each other. They could be part of an organization with a strong hierarchy (military, thieves guild, etc.) that can create consequences for stepping out of line.

-Vek
"If you want, PM me, and I can act as the authorities or what have you to take the burden of tracking your PCs."

Some great and helpful stuff in there. Thanks. And good for you for going where your players took you. Hopefully everyone had a good time.

Well, it was both fun and frustrating. With no unifying force, the group was a loose collection of people working together with no real galvanizing purpose. As such, they bickered quite often and were at odds a lot. This I found to be realistic. There was no reason for them to be friends. However, they so frequently ignored clues or plot hooks that it became difficult to keep them on track for anything. Eventually the characters, who had no real reason to band together and never created one, we such at odds that they found reasons to split the group frequently. Not that bad for narrative but you have to scale down the encounters as a result.

-Vek
"Did someone say Mind Mage? Never trust them."

Veknironth wrote:"Did someone say Mind Mage? Never trust them."

That goes double for one that is also a changeling.

One way to help band the party together is to give them someone they dislike more than each other and a link to each other.

Make them all great heroes whom a tough bad guy caught and defeated.
Then have an unknown benefactor reincarnate them into what they currently are
Have them all wake up somewhere with a ward for each player that react to each other (like glow brighter the closer they get to each other. On a wrist is good so if they put them all together they tingle and glow. I tend to have the party wake up in an Inn with the room paid for for another 2 days and double the normal starting money and no memory of who they are.
Have a noticeable group of small buffs when they are together with more buffs the more there are.
When someone gets too far away they suddenly get the sensation of having trouble breathing, or it feels like they are walking on sharp rocks, or can't sleep, or don't heal etc.
But mostly, what one of the warded does to another is felt by them all, so if one of them starts a fight with one, he starts a fight with all of them.

Then they can have similar, but not exactly the same dreams about each other and recognising each other somehow even though they look different and are even of different races. This nightmare leads up too a fight where the bbeg slaughtered each one of them, and they all get to see it from different perspectives and know that there is someone out there that has killed them once and would likely do so again.

kiralon wrote:One way to help band the party together is to give them someone they dislike more than each other and a link to each other.

Make them all great heroes whom a tough bad guy caught and defeated.
Then have an unknown benefactor reincarnate them into what they currently are
Have them all wake up somewhere with a ward for each player that react to each other (like glow brighter the closer they get to each other. On a wrist is good so if they put them all together they tingle and glow. I tend to have the party wake up in an Inn with the room paid for for another 2 days and double the normal starting money and no memory of who they are.
Have a noticeable group of small buffs when they are together with more buffs the more there are.
When someone gets too far away they suddenly get the sensation of having trouble breathing, or it feels like they are walking on sharp rocks, or can't sleep, or don't heal etc.
But mostly, what one of the warded does to another is felt by them all, so if one of them starts a fight with one, he starts a fight with all of them.

Then they can have similar, but not exactly the same dreams about each other and recognising each other somehow even though they look different and are even of different races. This nightmare leads up too a fight where the bbeg slaughtered each one of them, and they all get to see it from different perspectives and know that there is someone out there that has killed them once and would likely do so again.

Cool. Thanks. Yes, prior to playing it will be established why the group is together. Also, there is a nice paragraph write up describing how to play an evil character in the alignment section.

So the group is coming together.
One of the players is an orc Priest of Darkness. I'm allowing him soldier hth so a god of war or combat would be good or something that warrants a soldier hth. He will probably be aberrant or miscreant.
Any suggestion for a suitable God? Modeus comes to mind as well as Anhur.

Lopnel would also be a good choice.
Then send him off to find the Hammer of Jejua (Holy hammer of the red god)

kiralon wrote:Lopnel would also be a good choice.
Then send him off to find the Hammer of Jejua (Holy hammer of the red god)

Thanks. Missed that guy.

Right now we have:

Troll mercenary fighter - aberrant
Wolfen Warlock (fire/ earth) - aberrant
Changeling (Human) Diabolist - anarchist
Orc Priest o' Darkness - either aberrant or miscreant

One option right now is to have them part of the Wolfen Empire.

This is a continuation from the original post.
I enjoy writing (or trying to). Wrote this up a while back from my blog. It's a short summary of one of our games. There was art attached and a bit more to it but here is the story part. Hope you enjoy.

I wanted the players to have good stats as sometimes only two would be playing. Without further ado...

The stars of our show:

Fleshfeast

Troll, Lev: 1, Mercenary Fighter, Aberrant

PS:23, PP: 16, PE: 21, PB:5

Origin Land: Baalor Wastelands, Cannibal

HtH: Mercenary, Battle Axe, Pole Arms, Short swords, Lg. Shields, (giant size weapons)


Tigris Verso

Wolfen, Lev: 1, Warlock (Fire/ Earth), Aberrant

IQ: 18, ME: 20, PS: 16, PE: 18

Origin Land: Great Norther Wilderness, Cannibal

HtH: Non-Men of Arms, Battle Axe, Sml. Shield, (giant size weapons)


Xanathos

Changeling, Lev: 1, Diabolist, Anarchist

IQ: 22, ME: 22, MA: 20

Origin Land: Western Empire

Personal Hostility: Wolfen

HtH: Non-Men of Arms, Blunt: Hercules Club


Drax the Death Dealer

Orc, Lev: 1, Agent (Priest) of Darkness, Aberrant

God: Modeus, Lord of Hades

MA:16, PS:18, PP: 17, PE:17

Land Origin: The Great Northern Wilderness, Cannibal

HtH: Soldier, Battle Axe, L.g. Shields, Horsemanship


******************************

This session starred Fleshfeast and Drax.

Our game takes place where the Northern Wilderness meets the Eastern Territory, with the Bruu-Ga-Belimar mountains being just south. I'm using Adventures in the Northern Wilderness and "Further" Adventures in the Northern Wilderness as guides.

***************************

We begin with Drax and Fleshfeast arriving in Golmira, a town full of beggars and pickpockets. It's not a pretty sight here, with all the poverty and filthy streets. Many inhabitants were displaced from the never ending border wars between humans and wolfen. Also, towns that refused to assimilate into the Wolfen Empire were left in ruins, sending the population fleeing for their lives.

Drax and Fleshfeast make their way to the Medusa's Head tavern. As tough as this tavern is, everyone averts their gaze when they see an 11.5 foot tall troll walking in. The players each grab a drink and rent two rooms; one in the back and one space in the stables.

After retiring, each PC is attacked by a mix of goblins, orcs and humans. The rogues quickly learn that it's a mistake to mess with a sleeping troll and are soon killed. Then, the PCs (player characters) hear a woman scream outside and move to investigate. In a nearby alleyway, a young, red-haired woman is being attacked by human thugs. Try as she does to fight back, she is no match for them. Drax and Fleshfeast arrive and make quick work of the villains, leaving one alive for questioning.

With some "proper motivation," the remaining thug discloses that he works for a man named Ramek. His job is to rob and kidnap visitors, bringing them to Ramek's base. Ramek either sells these captives into slavery or sells the meat to the starving population. The thug says Ramek has a Grimbor called Grong who guards him. These are the last words the thug utters.

They learn the woman, Zabrina, was kicked out of her home by her lover, who she believes was drugged and not in his right mind. She says Toto Ramek is responsible and wants her for himself and will do anything to have her. She has money hidden and will pay to have Ramek killed. She has been to Ramek's home estate and tells the players the location.

Wanting to introduce themselves to Ramek, Drax and Fleshfeast make their way to his base in the city's center, which has a wooden border wall around it. When they arrive, Drax charms his way into the base proper using a Charismatic Aura spell. The two then kill anyone who cross their path as they stealth their way in.

With axes bloodied, Drax and Fleshfeast manage to get inside Toto Ramek's fort and make their way down a hallway. Standing in front of the double doors is the Grimbor, Grong and beside him, chained to the wall and laying unconscious, is a human female.

With weapon drawn, Grong can see these are invaders and shouts the only word in his vocabulary: Kill!

The Grimbor slashes with its massive, sharpened bone weapon, causing a deep gash into the troll's chest but, Fleshfeast strikes back and hacks its arm off while Drax chops into its back, severing its spine.

The two then kick open the double doors and see Toto Ramek behind a wood desk in a large, dimly lit room. Ramek is alone but is calling for guards. Drax casts Cloud of Smoke, outside the doors exit making it difficult for the guards to find their way in.

Toto Ramek: Infidels! I've killed all manner of men, women and children! Now, I will kill you for daring to enter my home . You've earned my wrath!

Drax: Drax the Death Dealer is sending you to hell, DOG!

Ramek is tough, getting two attacks per round. He cuts deeply into both players and they are near death but Fleshfeast, towering above Ramek, lift his massive axe and brings it down hard, cutting through Ramek's armour and into his shoulder. Then Drax, with his soldier training and orc strength, savagely swings his axe, driving it deep into Ramek's neck and cutting his jugular. Blood sprays out across the room as Ramek flails around, eyes wide in disbelief at what just happened, then falls to the floor in a bloody heap.

The guards finally make it through the smoke, but take one look around and run off.

The two root through the place and grab a chest containing gold and potions and then set the dwelling ablaze.

Afterwards, they meet Zabrina, who is true to her word. But, more payment is demanded of her! Out of desperation, Zabrina brings forth a ring and begs for that to be enough. Drax and Fleshfeast take the ring and Zabrina leaves quickly.

The game ends with Drax and Fleshfeast a bit richer as they head further south towards the Bruu-Ga-Belimar mountains.