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Well, I was wondering how often or easily a demkn familiar can change its shape. I suppose it depends on how it came to be in its normal animal shape to begin with. If it's an essence merged with an animal, that probably rules out it changing its shape. But if it's a demon that was metamorphed into the shape of an animal, then change would be possible. Either the pact giver can change the familiar's shape or the creature can. If it's the former, then what circumstances would necissitate such a change? Would avoiding discovery be enough?

Also, what would that demon look like it its normal form?

-Vek
"Familiar with familiars."

This is an interesting one - something I think that we in my gaming group have been playing incorrectly for years, because we cut our teeth on 1st edition Palladium Fantasy, and the demon familiar is not the same in 2nd edition.

In 1st edition, the greater familiar was strictly a metamorphosed demon - no "essence fragment" option. It retained all of its normal demon/devil powers, and it could resume its natural form at will (answering your question for 1st edition games).

When we started playing 2nd edition, we read the entry saying that the greater familiar could be either a metamorphosed demon or an essence fragment possessing an animal, and we played it that the subsequent statistics and powers were for the essence fragment type, and that if it was a metamorphosed demon, it kept its normal powers like in 1st edition.

However, if we hadn't been polluted by our 1st edition knowledge, I think that what the book really means is that, regardless of the source of the familiar, the abilities and powers are the same - the demon is "magically metamorphosed" into an animal form (even those that have no metamorphosis abilities themselves) by the pact-giving master, and is transformed fully into a new type of being, trapped in this animal form, with different powers than it had before. It can never resume its normal form nor use its past abilities (until the pact is ended and it is released, I guess) - in a way the demon's essence and physical form has been used to make a familiar. The type of demon or deevil is irrelevant. Its "normal form" is now that of the animal.

However, I still like to play that some familiars can be demons in disguise that have their normal powers and can resume their natural form at will - it is a more fun way to play greater familiars, and gives much more flexibility and individuality.

In answer to part of your question, I suppose the pact-giving being can intervene in the life of the witch as much as it feels like and in any number of ways, including revising the appearance of the greater familiar it has provided. Whether it would do so or not is entirely up to the creature and the circumstances.

I think that the pact giver has the power to have the familiar to be able to change form...but it should come at a cost. Witches and their pact are very lopsided in favor of the pact-giver (devil's bargain), so I think there should be some sort of cost (self-mutilation, sacrifice of some sort, heinous act in the name of the pact-giver, etc).

Veknironth wrote:Well, I was wondering how often or easily a demkn familiar can change its shape. I suppose it depends on how it came to be in its normal animal shape to begin with. If it's an essence merged with an animal, that probably rules out it changing its shape. But if it's a demon that was metamorphed into the shape of an animal, then change would be possible. Either the pact giver can change the familiar's shape or the creature can. If it's the former, then what circumstances would necissitate such a change? Would avoiding discovery be enough?

I'd lean towards them generally being possessed animals, with the listed abilities. As a metamorphed demon, I would lean towards "they only can if that type of demon can change its form." A Devilkin can change its form... an imp cannot. If the familiar is a metamorphed imp, it is stuck in whatever form it was given... just because it is metamorphed doesn't mean it changed its own shape. It's perfectly possible that a Lord said "Ok, I'm giving you to my witch. You're a dog now. Follow the rules or I will turn you into a chamber pot."

Ever since 2nd edition came out and I read "metamorphosis demon" or "essence fragment", I interpreted the intent of the author (aka Kevin) said you get
the choice of having a lesser demon/deevil in the form of an animal (with all that demons natural abilities), plus the familiar link power OR the
essence fragment of a demon/deevil lord, dark god, alien intelligence stuck in the form of some animal with all the familiar link power. But then you read
the Summon Greater Familiar spell (15th level, page 216 of PFRPG) and it says a lesser demon or "supernatural being" can become a familiar and it says
see witch and greater familiar section, numbers 1-8 all apply, even though there are only 1-6 (I'll say editing error). There is nothing about them being
turned into an animal under the 15th level spell. No change or additional info about demon familiars under Priest of Darkness. Then don't forget deities
have the Deific Power of Transmutation meaning they can turn you into almost anything they want as long as it's not 500 feet (150 m) across).

Therefore, I have decided by the freelancer power vested in me under Kevin guidance that between those two descriptions that there is plenty of room to
play around with the concept of metamorphosis demon or supernatural being. This is why Cardinal Meaden of the Timiro Kingdom has a succubus as his
demon familar (See official material in Rifter #63) and maybe one day listed somewhere else...

Now for a little secret folks. Go check out Bizantium and the Northern Islands, page 84, and read about Hanta Farrip (9th level Air Warlock) and her
amazing minion...Perhaps one day more detail about this will see the light of day.