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Rifts Skill use:

Hoping to get some consensus on some skills.

Land Navigation vs Navigation:

Players are Rifted into Mexico. They have no map. Know the name of the town they want to get to but even if they had a map and they don’t they don’t know where they are relative to the town they want to arrive at.

They have Land Navigation. I believe that means they can catch when they are going in a circle by recognizing the same land features. I would also say they can quickly figure out which direction North is and such. My intent was to have them explorer. Eventually they were supposed to come across someone or a town where they could ask someone which direction to go to find the town they want.
What they wanted and made an argument about was that they would have brought a map (... it goes without saying…). I argued that the skill for map use is “Navigation” (Pilot Related skill, which they did not have). And that even “IF” they had a map that would not show them on the map where they are on the map. Arguably they would have to look around using Land Navigation to relate terrain features to map details to “guess” where they are on the map.

One of the players wanted a character who would be able to “herd” animals (horses, goats, sheep, etc).

Does he pick the skill Lore: Cattle or a Herding skill I heard about form one of the books?
Can they “rustle” cattle (or livestock like sheep or goats) like finding them in the wild. Do the skills let them “tend” to the herd (like first aid or forced march)?

Does “Field Armourer & Munitions” let the character do the same things as “General Repair & Maintenance” or do they need both skills?

Do medical skills progress like Hand to Hand combat does (Hand to Hand Basic is surpassed by Hand to Hand Expert)?
So First Aid then Paramedic then Medical Doctor? Or can you have many and why would you want them?
Like First Aid and Holistic Medicine. And where does Field Surgery and Pathology fit in.

Eating off the land in the wild
Dowsing, Fishing, Identify Plants & Fruits, Track & Trap Animals, Wilderness Survival.

If you “just” need Wilderness Survival what is the point of the others?
If you have them, do they “just” provide a variety of food?
Fishing gets you fish, because “yeah” fish?
Do they exist to find herbs for holistic medicine and brewing?
Does tracking exist so animals can be skinned for clothes?

When a player wants to use a mechanical or electrical skill can they “fix” anything within the scope of the skill description without replacement parts or necessarily tools?
I let the Electronics Basic skill hot-wire cars

Does the skill “Boats: Ships” let you sail other boats or do you need a separate skill for each (like a rowboat you see in movies to row to shore)?

Does Pilot: Automobile let a character drive a u-haul truck but not a commercial (semi and such)?

Does Electronic Countermeasures let you figure out “where” those speaking on their radios are direction/location wise? Sensory Equipment?

Where in Rifts Earth can/does one get to use Laser communications? Does the CS use it? What do they use for long range communications (radio signal boosting stations?)?
Does the “Surveillance” skill let the character “tail” (rogue skills tailing) like the Field Armourer skill give the character Basic Mechanics?

Does the Domestic skill Gardening cover the skill of a peasant farmer to grow crops?

Do you have the skill to grow crops if you have the science skill Botany?

If you have botany can you create new herbs (magic or otherwise), tea and wines? I imagine it would help with Holistic Medicine in not extracting materials for pharmaceuticals.

How difficult would a character with “Botany” find it to figure out the Xiticix food source when they see it?
Would they be able to grow algae for food like the Lumerians?

Would Chemistry skills allow a character to create gunpowder and explosives? Drugs? Gasoline or an alcohol substitute? Acid (for burning/dissolving)? Poison making?

Does the skill Detect Ambush substitute for Sixth Sense? If not, what’s the difference?

Noting that sometimes topics like this may touch a nerve with a person, the following are personal interpretations and I recognize that different players/GMs may have used these skills differently. In no way are other interpretations considered wrong or should my interpretations be considered canon. Basically, you do you within the constraints of GM fiat. My approach has been to use a very fluid interpretation buttressed with lots of modifiers where there may be a common foundational knowledge. Where specific skills are not known, consider whether an IQ attribute roll would be appropriate for someone to figure it out based on what is available - necessity, after all, is the mother of invention.

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Land Navigation vs Navigation:

Players are Rifted into Mexico. They have no map. Know the name of the town they want to get to but even if they had a map and they don’t they don’t know where they are relative to the town they want to arrive at.

They have Land Navigation. I believe that means they can catch when they are going in a circle by recognizing the same land features. I would also say they can quickly figure out which direction North is and such. My intent was to have them explorer. Eventually they were supposed to come across someone or a town where they could ask someone which direction to go to find the town they want.
What they wanted and made an argument about was that they would have brought a map (... it goes without saying…). I argued that the skill for map use is “Navigation” (Pilot Related skill, which they did not have). And that even “IF” they had a map that would not show them on the map where they are on the map. Arguably they would have to look around using Land Navigation to relate terrain features to map details to “guess” where they are on the map.

Yup, generally agree with this.
Land navigation would likely have PCs figure out the lay of the land with no labels or place names to go by. They can get from town to town by virtue of following the ridge for 10 miles and turning west by the old oak tree. They might also have inate sense of where to look for places, ie. a settlement is likely close to water, a fort is likely on higher ground, a mine is likely not in a marsh, etc.
Navigation is using a map, software or a tool like a compass to chart a course and follow it, possibly using land features shown on the map or in directions given as reference points or coordinates.
Land navigation could benefit from a map to familiarize what features to look out for, but the notation of complicated technical maps might be too difficult to interpret or require a heavy modifier. However, a person with Land Navigation might be able to triangulate where they are on a map if land features are unique and distinguishable.

Don't forget related skills may play a factor such as Astronomy & Navigation (using stars) and Cartography (a deep knowledge of maps and map making).

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One of the players wanted a character who would be able to “herd” animals (horses, goats, sheep, etc).

Does he pick the skill Lore: Cattle or a Herding skill I heard about form one of the books?
Can they “rustle” cattle (or livestock like sheep or goats) like finding them in the wild. Do the skills let them “tend” to the herd (like first aid or forced march)?

Herding Cattle (WB14) is technically specific to cattle and includes the basics such as what you mentioned. I would see no reason why the skill couldn't be selected for each animal type - goats are very different from cows.
Lore - Cattle/Animals (WB14) is wide ranging in scope as written. Given how much this skill covers, I suggest each animal type would probably be its own lore skill.

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Does “Field Armourer & Munitions” let the character do the same things as “General Repair & Maintenance” or do they need both skills?

Same? No. FA&M is specific as to the type of equipment and would encompass end to end processes. GR&M is more task oriented and simple... such as packing bullets, but not making simple cartridges. Supergluing/duct taping/welding a MDC plate onto non-environmental body armor, but not replacing and adjusting a section of environmental body armor.

Need both to do something? No. I don't think they stack on any given task.

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Do medical skills progress like Hand to Hand combat does (Hand to Hand Basic is surpassed by Hand to Hand Expert)?
So First Aid then Paramedic then Medical Doctor? Or can you have many and why would you want them?
Like First Aid and Holistic Medicine. And where does Field Surgery and Pathology fit in.

First Aid is basic care, like clearing choking hazards, applying a bandage and CPR. Paramedic is the use of things like a defibulator or administering emergency medication as well as all first aid. So in this case there is progression. A medical doctor is all encompassing, but not all MDs have extensive emergency room experience - think family practitioners in Sleepytown USA. May be able to deliver a baby, but may not know anything about gunshot wounds. Holistic medicine and pathology are other areas of medicine that may be shared with other professions such as scientists, researchers or traditional healers. Ultimately, they are all used to heal somebody, but are very context specific and, depending on the illness or injury, some of these skills may be useless or at least less effective.

This difference between skills is very unlike H2H, where the goal of all the H2H skills is to engage in combat. The bonuses granted by each reflects the additional rigor and discipline. Though the difference between MA, Assassin and Commando may be debated.

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Eating off the land in the wild
Dowsing, Fishing, Identify Plants & Fruits, Track & Trap Animals, Wilderness Survival.

If you “just” need Wilderness Survival what is the point of the others?
If you have them, do they “just” provide a variety of food?
Fishing gets you fish, because “yeah” fish?
Do they exist to find herbs for holistic medicine and brewing?
Does tracking exist so animals can be skinned for clothes?

Teach a person Wilderness Survival and they'll eat for a few days (maybe some roasted acorns, a frog, and if lucky some bird eggs). Teach them Fishing and they'll eat for possibly months until the lake freezes solid.

Identify Plants & Fruits specifically says edible and herbal/medicinal qualities.

T&T Animals can tell you what is around and what is a threat (ie. they are tracking you!), in addition to what is a food source. Once you have trapped an animal, what you do with it is your own business. Hopefully you have Skin & Prepare Hides, Cooking and Preserve Food.

The point is how long you expect to rely on a skill and the resources available to effect the skill. No point using Fishing or Identify Plants & Fruits in the middle of the Sahara. However, T&T Animals might get you that giant dune lizard nest which might keep you alive another month.

Keep in mind also that there are a variety of Wilderness Survival variants (Desert, Mountains, etc.), so context is everything.

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When a player wants to use a mechanical or electrical skill can they “fix” anything within the scope of the skill description without replacement parts or necessarily tools?
I let the Electronics Basic skill hot-wire cars

Not having the tools would likely have serious modifiers and no parts likely means no fix even though the PC knows what needs to be done.

That's what RUE says: hot-wiring a car is Basic Elec -20%. Keep in mind that there is a special skill Hotwire RPA (WB20, pg 118).

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Does the skill “Boats: Ships” let you sail other boats or do you need a separate skill for each (like a rowboat you see in movies to row to shore)?

Boats: Ships is for sailing vessels specifically. Rowboats are specifically Boats: Paddle/Canoe/Kayak. It's like bicycles vs motorbikes. Two very different skills.

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Does Pilot: Automobile let a character drive a u-haul truck but not a commercial (semi and such)?

That's what RUE says. In general (in real life), a regular drivers license is enough to drive a uhaul.

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Does Electronic Countermeasures let you figure out “where” those speaking on their radios are direction/location wise? Sensory Equipment?

Heck, I'd argue even Radio Basic with a modifier could figure that out if we're talking using radio frequencies to detect location. Wouldn't say it would be very accurate, depending on equipment.

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Where in Rifts Earth can/does one get to use Laser communications? Does the CS use it? What do they use for long range communications (radio signal boosting stations?)?
Does the “Surveillance” skill let the character “tail” (rogue skills tailing) like the Field Armourer skill give the character Basic Mechanics?

Re Laser Comms, sure! I'd say they do. Fiber optic cabling would be important technology for high speed data transfer. When you build a MDC road, just put your optic cabling underneath for protection. Digital ProsekTV piped out to the frontier colonies.
You can get great mileage out of radio for long distances, subject to atmospheric conditions.
With nuclear power sources, strings of hovering automated comms drones/buoys that could defend themselves would be the high tech version of a telephone wire and could even extend cellphone service beyond cities.
Heck, what's wrong with good old fashioned land line telephones?
The only comms skill that I'd see little use for is Radio: Satellite Relay, unless you apply it to those networked drones.

Re Tailing, on the face of it, makes little difference since both have the same %. However, the Rogue skill has a +5% bonus from Prowl, but none of the prereqs. I'd treat as the same game mechanic, but different skills as the Rogue version is easier to get, but focuses on the actual tailing, not the gadgetry under Surveillance. OCC bonuses may also have an impact on which skill to select.

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Does the Domestic skill Gardening cover the skill of a peasant farmer to grow crops?

Do you have the skill to grow crops if you have the science skill Botany?

If you have botany can you create new herbs (magic or otherwise), tea and wines? I imagine it would help with Holistic Medicine in not extracting materials for pharmaceuticals.

How difficult would a character with “Botany” find it to figure out the Xiticix food source when they see it?
Would they be able to grow algae for food like the Lumerians?

Garden crops (ie. my tomato plant on the patio) is very different from industrial farming (ie. giant hot houses). The books aren't clear, but I'd go with having to select Gardening twice to grow larger scale garden crops and, even then, have preferably botany as well to avoid a modifier. I'd also not consider Botany alone to be sufficient to grow crops for large scale food production. Consider modifying Undersea Farming to just Farming to make life easier.

RUE includes experimentation in Botany.

Just Botany? Major modifier. Botany is about plants, not insect behavior, though the modifier allows for someone to inuit the behavior akin to Earth ants. There are a ton of other skills that would have better chances to come to that conclusion.

Growing algae is specifically mentioned in Undersea Farming. Botany could grow algae, but I'd say not to scale for food production without modifiers, as with any food crop.

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Would Chemistry skills allow a character to create gunpowder and explosives? Drugs? Gasoline or an alcohol substitute? Acid (for burning/dissolving)? Poison making?

Yes. Depending on the explosive, may need Chemistry: Analytical.
Re drugs, see Chemistry: Pharmaceutical. Other skills may be useful.
Yes. To research the substitute, may need Chemistry: Analytical.
Yes.
Re poison, see Chemistry: Pharmaceutical. Other skills may be useful.

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Does the skill Detect Ambush substitute for Sixth Sense? If not, what’s the difference?

No. Detect Ambush does not tingle spidey senses or anything else. It is a way of logically looking at the area and picking where an ambush may be and how an ambush be be executed in order to be cautious and prepare a response, not knowing where an ambush actually is or even if there is actually an ambush. In fact, there could be several great ambush sites completely unused. That is why an overly-complacent person who only focuses on the most likely points of ambush may still be surprised by a weaker opponent who uses an unconventional or traditionally ineffective ambush tactic.

Sixth Sense is the tingles. No idea where from, but a life threatening event is going to happen in the next minute. Other than that, you are on your own to respond to the event.

Wow Grazzik,

Impressive reply. Thorough.

Love the opening, "you do you within the constraints of GM fiat."

Had no idea on the Herding cattle thing. I just tired of my players only finding "game" and monsters in the wild. So I thought why not have them come across a stray from a cattle drive or a goat herd. Have them find something in the wild other than trouble. So they can return the lost sheep or sell it. Level 1 adventure, rescue the lost sheep.

Still working on how to do healing by skills differently. I "feel" with pathology they should be able to recognize signs of disease and treat but making an adventure out of it for a Body Doc or Cyber is something else. Basically it is a treasure hunt for the cause or culprit and remedy.
In real life, I met a Dr of Holistic medicine at a health food store. He described the difference between emergency medicine and holistic medicine as being holistic is preventative medicine. Holistic medicine was not intended to treat knife and bullet wonds. It is mostly based on the food we eat (cutting out the junk). Its SLOW but effective in preventing sicknesses and even cancer. Promotes healthy bacteria and treats infections, common flu, etc. A surgeon may replace a liver but a holistic doctor can show you have to keep it from needing to be replaced, if you diet, exercise and such. Not the fast injection or surgery of the MD.

Love the insight about the wilderness, science, and communication skills.

Kinda sad about boating.

All these questions come from trying to mix it up with the use of skills so many characters have but seldom use. So I figured I'd have to create opportunities for the players to use them by putting them in situations where succeeding at their use would advance the story and be rewarded with xp, information, and survival (food and medical).

Hmmm, there are a lot of skills that go unused because players aren't put in ADVENTURE scenarios that require them. Some skills are great as background to justify why someone does something for a living, but actually use them in a game session? Well, I've thought about some the skills I find more obscure and tried to put them into an adventure context. Feedback is most welcome. Some may not be in the Palladium product you are playing with, but I generally consider skills from a megaversal perspective. Use what you find helpful.
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Housekeeping

Mortuary Science

Dentistry

Professional Jump Skiing

High Science: Artificial Intelligence, Genetics, Astrophysics, etc.

Civil Engineering

Breed Dogs

Calligraphy

Masonry

RPG Design (Yes, a skill in a book!)

Theatre Warfare (Surface Marine, Submarine, Ground, Air)


Any other skills that are overlooked?
Any suggestions for how these or other skills could be better used directly in adventures?

Love your Ideas

Especially Housekeeping. Can clean the crime scene of any trace you and the party were there.

Also, Dog Breeding.

I like where you are going with Caligraphy and Masonry.

Technical skills are available to everyone so rewarding the use of them should shower them with xp and information or social reputation.

Where can I find the Mortuary Skill (medical)?

I feel Barter has a big opportunity to haggle for more money for a job and cutting cost on weapons, gear and goods. Failure and the price stays the same succeed and save credits.

Cryptography is pretty rare but those who use it successfuly should be rewarded with passwords. Super Rare so it should be super rewarding.

I keep thinking of more ideas:

Language skill percentage, to conceal a subtle message to another.

Brewing, to conceal ones scent when being tracked. Also, to conceal taste of drugs/poison. Same with "Cook."

Dance to distract others and to walk silently or without leaving foot prints.

Gardening, to conceal oneself like camo and hide items in or under. Also, knowing which bushes will conceal ones scent.

Play music to give bonuses against horror factor or boost moral. Also, distraction on guards or card players or seduction, etc.

Recycle, you can learn some things about people by what they throw away and how they used it before they chucked it. Like a substitute for "Intelligence" or "Anthropology" or "Roadwise"

Sewing, tell you about the tailor. Tell the sizes of the person by their clothes when you are searching their room or by the clothes they left behind at the crime scene. Potentially where certain fabrics, materials, and thread were purchased from. Dective Sherlock Holmes thing.

Sing, see Dance and Play Musical Instrument.

Grooming, CSI on people. How "clean" oneself or others of forensic evidence. Sherlock Holmes on person by spoting blood or mud on their clothes. Smell of gunpowder. That sort of thing.

Computer Repair, should let one attach hardware inside the computer for tracking and copying/transferring information.

darthauthor wrote:Love your Ideas

Thank you

darthauthor wrote:Where can I find the Mortuary Skill (medical)?

WB 30, pg 160. It's a strange entry under the regular RCC skills list of the Posluznik. The entry doesn't expressly say the skill is unique to them and it isn't in their natural abilities section, so there you go.

darthauthor wrote:I feel Barter has a big opportunity to haggle for more money for a job and cutting cost on weapons, gear and goods. Failure and the price stays the same succeed and save credits.

My games see its use all the time. However, it is played as an opposed roll, particularly if the opponent is a merchant of some kind. Lose the opposed roll and the amount you are offered doesn't stay the same, it goes DOWN! You can always refuse the offer, but what are you going to do with 100 gallons of BBQ sauce? Same when haggling for a lower price on a purchase, lose a roll and the asking price goes UP! Depending on the situation, bonuses may be added from related skills such as Appraise Goods, Salesmanship (WB33, pg 89), Horse Trading (PFRPG I think), etc. Many are the times a foolish adventurer has haggled with a down-on-their-luck Naruni trader thinking them an easy mark...

darthauthor wrote:Cryptography is pretty rare but those who use it successfuly should be rewarded with passwords. Super Rare so it should be super rewarding.

Any written or digital communications that isn't on dedicated hardware are likely to be encoded. You could play this as an opposed roll against the Electronic Countermeasures skill if you want. Lots of opportunity to break codes. Merchant financial records or loan shark client lists would be coded. Any cyberjacking or hacking would need crypto a lot. I believe even some cred cards are encrypted, so have folks try to hack into a 1 million credit card as an initiation to a City Rat gang and see the sweat on their brow when they are told one more wrong entry and the credits are wiped... as are their reputations.

darthauthor wrote:Gardening, to conceal oneself like camo and hide items in or under. Also, knowing which bushes will conceal ones scent.

Check out Blend (WB 19, pg 159) for that kind of game mechanic, it's the wilderness skill of hiding in bushes, etc. However, knowledge of gardening would definitely be a useful substitute (especially in the suburbs) to hide in hedgerows or know what types of garden plants give privacy or cover to that hidden bunker in the backyard.