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Certainty about drawing PPE from a ley line.

So a magic user wants to cast a spell that costs more PPE then they have.

Does being near the ley line let them draw and hold the PPE until they have enough to cast it?

Example, an Earth Warlock has 5 PPE left. They want to cast multiply Mend Melt spells to repair something (30). So do the pull it straight from the ley line and can cast nothing that costs more the 20 PPE?
Do they "store" the PPE in their body up their max PPE is reached? Or casts it as a ritual? Other?

What about a Necromancer who want to create a magic bone item like "Bone of Invisibility" (180 PPE)?
He has 150 PPE as his MAX. Does he perform a ritual to gather up the PPE he needs from the Ley Line then casts the spell?

Looking at Palladium Fantasy, 2nd edition, page 181: (Rifts, with its supposedly super-powerful ley lines, use about the same numbers)

If the Warlock is within 1/2 mile of a nexus, or within about 200' of a ley line, they will get 10 PPE per round "bonus"; they can't store it, but they can throw it into a spell. In that case, they would not be able to cast Mend/Melt, because they don't have the PPE. If they're at a ley line nexus, they STILL can't, because they only get 20 PPE per round. If it happens to be at Noon or Midnight (or other such events), they can, because of the Ley line surge at those times... but they'd be limited to 4 castings, because they can only do it once per melee.

However, in the case of ritual magic, I make an exception... you can use the ambient PPE to supplement your own, to a limit of the casting time of the ritual. Rituals take 25-75 minutes to enact (in PF); if you're next to a ley line, that's 1000-3000 PPE (10 PPE per melee, 4 melees per minute). To my mind, you are continuously casting the spell throughout the ritual time, so you can add the bonus PPE into the ritual, saving your own.

Thanks Library Orge,

I like the signature, "Overproduced by Martin"

So if I understand it correctly, Ley Lines and Nexus points respectively are only good for spell 10 PPE and 20 PPE respectively.

Anything with a higher PPE cost has to be cast as a ritual. No wonder magic items cost so much to buy.

I was mostly imagining an Earth Warlock mending metal as a car repair thing or a robot power armor thing like a SAMAS. To be fair, in Rifts Earth, the effect may be boosted at ley lines.

So, can mages store PPE by being within range of a ley line and soak it up? Recharging the spell caster like an Eclip or meditation.

Or is it only good for the PPE cost of casting in the moment?

In Rifts, absorbed PPE is held for PE in minutes. E.g. if PE 11, PPE is held for 11 minutes, so some time can pass before using and the absorbed PPE starts to bleed off. The limit that can be absorbed is 3x base. (BoM pg 21)

Normally, 10 PPE and 20 PPE are absorbed per melee at LL and Nexus respectively. LL Walkers and Rifters absorb 2x/melee at LL and Nexus. (RUE pg 186)

Example, a LL Walker with a PE 12 and a base of 90 PPE absorbs PPE from Nexus will normally max out at 360 PPE (base +3x absorbed) in 6 mins 45 secs. The LLW would not have to absorb any more for 5 mins 15 sec to stay at max.

Example, a Necromancer with a PE 14 and a base of 50 PPE absorbs PPE from a LL will normally max out at 200 PPE (base +3x absorbed) in 3 mins 45 secs. The Necromancer would not have to absorb any more for 10 mins 15 sec to stay at max.

RAW is unclear if PPE absorbed to replace previously spent base PPE is retained. My house rule is that it is.

Invocations / spells costing more than 20 PPE do not have to be rituals unless written as such.

darthauthor wrote:So if I understand it correctly, Ley Lines and Nexus points respectively are only good for spell 10 PPE and 20 PPE respectively.

Not quite; if your character had 20 PPE, then they'd be able to use the 10 PPE/melee to cast the spell once... 10 PPE from ambient energy, 20 from their own store. Because they had 5, they couldn't do it, but they could use some other ability.

Anything with a higher PPE cost has to be cast as a ritual. No wonder magic items cost so much to buy.

So, can mages store PPE by being within range of a ley line and soak it up? Recharging the spell caster like an Eclip or meditation.

Or is it only good for the PPE cost of casting in the moment?

RAW in PFRPG2 and RUE, the 10/melee can't be stored; it's ambient energy, not something you can suck up like a vacuum. However, your PPE regen through meditation is increased.

That was brillant Library Orge,

I never thought that meditation's restoration of PPE would be increased when near the Ley Line and Nexus.

What is the PPE recovery for meditating near a ley line? 50% bonus? So 15 PPE per hour?

darthauthor wrote:Certainty about drawing PPE from a ley line.

So a magic user wants to cast a spell that costs more PPE then they have.

Does being near the ley line let them draw and hold the PPE until they have enough to cast it?

Example, an Earth Warlock has 5 PPE left. They want to cast multiply Mend Melt spells to repair something (30). So do the pull it straight from the ley line and can cast nothing that costs more the 20 PPE?
Do they "store" the PPE in their body up their max PPE is reached? Or casts it as a ritual? Other?

What about a Necromancer who want to create a magic bone item like "Bone of Invisibility" (180 PPE)?
He has 150 PPE as his MAX. Does he perform a ritual to gather up the PPE he needs from the Ley Line then casts the spell?

According to the Rifts Book of Magic page 21, a magic user in Rifts can hold up to three times their max P.P.E for up to P.E in minutes. This energy would not "recover" their spent P.P.E., it would just be energy they're holding onto and can use. Practitioners of Magic who can learn ritual spells can use the ritual rules to gather the P.P.E. needed to cast spells above their 3x limit or when away from Ley Lines.

Can another PPE manipulator draw energy from a ley line to immediately grant to another to use? For example, can 3 casters working together recharge a PPE Talisman in 1 round?

Good Question.

Don't know myself.

I have gotten it wrong in my understanding.

Seeking clairity myself.

My own question. A **** needs PPE to rift the party and themselves. No ley line around.
Shifter has 110 PPE. Needs 200 PPE to rift the party. Does the Shifter need to cast it as a Ritual to collect the donated 90 PPE from the party members? Or can they just "Donate Their PPE" without a ritual (up to 70% of their PPE Base)?

darthauthor wrote:My own question. A **** needs PPE to rift the party and themselves. No ley line around.
Shifter has 110 PPE. Needs 200 PPE to rift the party. Does the Shifter need to cast it as a Ritual to collect the donated 90 PPE from the party members? Or can they just "Donate Their PPE" without a ritual (up to 70% of their PPE Base)?

Okay, had a look and in RUE and BoM I could find only willing and unwilling donors of PPE. However, did not find unwitting donors - people who don't know you're taking their PPE. However, the rules for unwitting donors in PFRPG are in Mysteries of Magic (pg 24) and are summarized as:
* 1D4 PPE per victim
* 1 victim per level
* Victim gets save throw vs magic (12+)
* Requires 1 melee action per victim

Note: BTS (pg 94) has similar rules for the Arcanist, where they can draw 2d6 from the unwitting, but the other specs are slightly different, i.e. 3 unwitting donors per level. Perhaps, this may be due to different mystical levels of energy. In DB 7 pg 65, Palladium is described as a world low in magic energy. Not sure if there is a description anywhere of what the BTS world is like, but I'd assume if base PPE is higher, then general magic energies may be higher. Therefore, as GM, you may want to apply the BTS rules to Rifts Earth given 2d6 is the same base PPE for human non-magic users.

However, there is a nice tidbit in MoM pg 24 that for willing or unwitting people, "...to draw upon more than 10 people requires a ritual ceremony". Therefore, it can be inferred that if your shifter intends to take PPE from no more than 10 people, the shifter does not require a ritual to absorb their PPE. Feel free to disregard if you don't use MoM in Rifts.

So, unwitting donors would amount to at most 1d4x10 PPE and without a ritual, if using MoM. But, 2d6x10 if using the higher amount from BTS rules... perhaps just enough to cast if you roll lucky.

Also, if they are ten willing donors or less, MoM pg 24 says they only need to all hold hands - not necessarily a ritual. Simple enough.

Curbludgeon wrote:Can another PPE manipulator draw energy from a ley line to immediately grant to another to use? For example, can 3 casters working together recharge a PPE Talisman in 1 round?

Only one caster (Caster A) should effect the recharge, but the other two could donate PPE to be used. I'd agree that they could channel PPE that they themselves absorbed, like a daisy chain, but it would have to be within the few minutes they can hold onto the PPE. Also, Caster A would be limited by the max amount Caster A could absorb (3x base). Others may disagree, but GM has final say.

Interesting note: there is a penalty in MoM (pg 22) for absorbing PPE while super-charged
* The mage feels bloated, dizzy
* Spd, physical attacks per melee round, combat bonuses, and Perception Rolls are all reduced by half
* Skills are -10%

One other factor to consider is that the Talisman spell (not ritual) is level 13 and requires 3 actions to invoke (RUE pg 189). This may be the majority of actions for a mage in a given round (or probably all if MoM penalty is applied), so any PPE absorbed from a LL or donated from other mages would all probably have to be done in the round prior to invoking the Talisman spell. So, the whole process should take a minimum of two rounds.

If using the Talisman ritual, timing would probably become even more of a factor since the ritual would be 1d4x10+15 minutes (as per RUE pg 187), well past the amount of time a mage could hold onto absorbed PPE. So, if it was me, I would not opt for the ritual in this scenario.

Note: MoM pg 22 also has rules for rapid channeling rituals, but it is intended for 00s and 000s of PPE. PPE Talisman recharge costs 60 PPE, so not worth it. Might be worth it if creating a new PPE Talisman which costs 500 PPE.

This all works if you bring rules into Rifts from PFRPG and BTS. If you don't, then... Hope this all helps.

darthauthor wrote:My own question. A **** needs PPE to rift the party and themselves. No ley line around.
Shifter has 110 PPE. Needs 200 PPE to rift the party. Does the Shifter need to cast it as a Ritual to collect the donated 90 PPE from the party members? Or can they just "Donate Their PPE" without a ritual (up to 70% of their PPE Base)?

I've tended to allow those with control over their PPE (other casters able to gain PPE from people, individuals like Warrior Monks or Palladins in Palladium Fantasy) to donate it without a ceremony.