EF's GMU/MTA-Titan was it originally a Zentreadi Vehicle?

[ShadowLogan]

Quick Note:
This topic is intended as a hypothetical What-If to throw players a curve-ball in terms of lore/encounters and to give GMs another tool, it obviously does not line up with the presentation in the PB RPGs (and other media), but can also be ignored as is but used as inspiration for "new" Zentreadi hardware.

Main Topic:
Could the Ground Mobile Unit/MTA-Titan in use by the EF (REF in 1E, UEEF in 2E) actually be a converted Zentreadi "armored vehicle" that was converted for use by humans, similar to how the Z-3 is a human retrofitted version of the Zentreadi Cyclops in the 1E RPG (where they don't make full use of the available volume by the description, but that's a topic for another day)?

I do believe the main question to determine if this is even possible would be to ask if you could fit a Zentreadi into any of the 3x crew/troop locations used by the UEEF: the "bridge" section, the "Mecha Bay" section, and the wheels.

Now both PB Editions have different dimensions for the MTA-Titan, and assume different "average" heights for the Zentreadi. So I will look at both editions separately when answering this question, but I will be using the same lineart to take measurements from (image is various profile views of the MTA-Titan found in the 1E REF Field Guide pg41). The "bridge" and "mecha bay" appear to be of similar size, though the "mecha bay" appears slightly shorter, though I will also admit I am treating them as basic cubes and not the irregular shape they are, so there is some "negative" space being calculated.

After taking the measurements of the basic dimensions for the MTA-Titan in its "box" mode, and measuring the sections in question to get a ratio between section and overall, I calculated the resulting size of each section for each edition of the RPG and calculated the resulting volume and compared that to a giant Zentreadi for that edition assuming it's giant size has similar ratios to human (ie average shoulder width would be 1/4 the height, and length would be 2/3 of the width).

And the Results are based on Volume:
-Bridge & Mecha Bay: 1E (Yes) and 2E (Yes)
-Wheels: 1E (Yes) and 2E (Yes)

There is actually room for multiple giant individuals at the respective "average" heights for either edition (1E is 17.37m, 2E is 11m at tall end for Elite-sub-type), though again this includes negative space that should be ignored and you need additional space to operate controls. In an attempt to address the negative space issue I went back and...

Now there is an image in the 1E Sentinels RPG (pg115) that has a side view cutaway of the mecha-bay and bridge module. The Mecha-bay includes a silhouette of a human for scale. The profile view can be broken down into 3 basic shapes (2 rectangles and a triangle) ignoring the rear bulkhead wall (thin rectangular) and top "cabin" (irregular shape). Assuming an average height of 1.8meters for the human silhouette reference, and taking various measurements for each section and totaling up the area and then multiplying that by the resulting width of the section by earlier calculations to get a new volume:
-1st Edition: Yes
-2nd Edition: Yes

So even accounting for the odd shape of the bridge and mecha-bay sections (which seem to suggest a giant's seat), it would seem that yes a (giant, presumably armored) Zentreadi can fit into any of the human crewed sections based on volume prior to any assumed conversion process. And do so quite easily in terms of volume, though in actual practice you are likely only looking at 1x per section (including the wheels), though in 2E you might be able to push that to x2 per section (maybe even more in the wheels) owning to the editions smaller average size used.

This means that if the MTA-Titan/GMU was a Zentreadi armored vehicle you could use the basic dimensions as is, along with the other game mechanical values, and just make necessary adjustments for its Zentreadi operators (altering size of hatches and purpose of modules). The weapon systems could remain unchanged, or they could have been retrofitted with "newer" human designs. The main sticking point IMHO at this point is how would the Zentreadi design have used the wheel cavities? Where they used to transport an infantry solider around in their own isolated bay? Was it a mine laying dispenser? Was it some other type of weapon station? Cargo? Another possibility is the existence of mission specific variant configurations.

Another issue is transporting it to the battle zone, I would estimate you could fit 1x MTA-Titan into a Re-Entry Pod (in 2E, 1E you might be able to get 4x, again this is due to the various size differences for some things between editions).

If we made the real world vehicles (Abrams MBT, hull only for length) and Bradley IFV) sized to be piloted by a giant Zentreadi: the 1E RT RPG Zentreadi equivalents are pretty close to the size of the GMU/MTA-Titan (talking only +/- a few meters in any direction), the 2E RT RPG Zentreadi versions would actually be about 1/2 the size. So in theory the size of the GMU would fit for a "conventional" platform in the 1E RPG, not so much for the 2E RPG where it would be oversized IF everything scales proportionally (which I doubt it will). The GMU/MTA-Titan's size IS smaller than some mobile excavators in the real world.

See Spoiler for resulting dimensions of the relevant sections based on measurements, ALL of which should be considered approximate and not the precise actual value

Spoiler:

Bridge/Mecha-Bay Section Area accounting for actual shape: 138.42m^2 (this ignores the rear bulkhead to the back and the crew section above:
-man standing lip area is 3m x 7.8m tall
-angled Ramp tunnel is 8.4m x 10.8m tall
-joining triangular section is 7.8m x 9m (remember this is a triangle, only 1/2 the area is available)
Bridge's Cargo Only Area (shows two bulkheads and a door):
-"ledge" where man was standing in Mecha bay but not shown here is 5.4m x 4.8m tall
-Angled Ramp Tunnel is 7.8m x 7.2 tall
-joining triangular section is 5.4m x 4.8m

1st Edition PB RPG
Wheel Diameter: 12.36m
Bridge/Mecha-Bay Module (Overall):
Height: 10.92m
Width: 7.16m
Length: 4.14m
Center-line/Gun-Bay Section: 11.4m x 7.22m x66.62m

2nd Edition PB RPG
Wheel Diameter: 18.48m
Bridge/Mecha-Bay Module (Overall):
Height: 16.34m
Width: 10.74m
Length: 6.19m
Center-line/Gun-Bay Section: 17.05m x 10.84m x 99.89m

And given I had the measurements available I thought I'd check to see if the Mecha complements in each edition would fit into the Mecha-Bay as listed in each edition using the various measurements available, so if you're curious see the second spoiler.

Spoiler:

1st Edition PB RPG
Lists a typical mix of 7x Destroids (assuming REF version 2 each of Gladiator, Excalibur, and RadierX, plus 1 Spartan) will not fit (this specific config). The 8x units for the typical Flyer Mix listed (2 Beta, 4 Alpha, 2 Destroids assuming 2nd Gen non-Mac3) will not fit.

2nd Edition PB RPG
Lists:
-12x VHTs or 12x 2nd Gen Destroid or 12x Alphas
-4x nt-UEEF Battloids
-4x Daniel SPA "vehicles"
-150x Cyclones (less if space models)

And the answer is NO, you could not fit all of those units into the depicted bay as seen in 1E Sentinels RPG side view using 2E dimensions, and that is using the smaller VHTs and not the larger Alpha or 2nd Gen Destroids.

both
And keep in mind this is by VOLUME for both of them, by deck space it would be even more challenging so I have to wonder how the listed mixes where determined. I was going to suggest that it was an "airlock" with the actual bay behind an earlier noted bulkhead in the diagram, but looking at the transformation sequence I have to rule that out. There is a second "cargo bay" in the Bridge module, but it can't connect to the main mecha-bay, so if was actually a secondary mecha bay it would have to have its own deployment ramp (which it might have, the lineart shows something that could be a type of ramp given the main Mecha Bay also has something just like it).

IF the Bridge Module's shorter height cargo module is actually supposed to be a mecha bay (and expands the capacity) then:
-1st Editions typical Destroid mix will now work
-1st Edition typical Flier Mix Listed will still not work (and I used the x2 smaller destroid profiles, ditch the Betas and they will fit)
-2nd Edition will work for VHTs, but using the larger Alpha or other 2nd Gen Destroids it will not.

It is also interesting to note that regardless of edition, there are mecha that might be to tall to fit based on the lineart and official dimensions (and the guy-silhouette I used for reference I assumed a height of 1.8m, if the artists assumed a shorter height...), and I don't mean just the MAC2/Monster (VTs might get around the height by switching out of Battloid mode, but their alternate modes tend to take up more floor space/volume than battloid mode).

[Sambot]

The GMU/Titan being a Zentraedi vehicle is interesting. I don't know how likely it would be though. Zentraedi foot soldiers always felt more like internal security than infantry troops. But I have seen what's supposed to be a pre-production Zentraedi vehicle for something Macross so I guess the GMU/Titan could work as a massive APC. As long as it doesn't transform. That goes for the official version too. I just can't see anything going past the triangle shield things. Even if there was some way through, it would have to be emptied before it transformed or everything would fall over. Not that there's a lot of room with the triangle shape of part of it along with the missile launchers and the thrusters. Between the shape, weapons and engines the only real place to put troops is in the front bridge/loading areas and maybe the wheels.

I kind of wonder if there should be two versions? A troop carrier and a mobile fortress/gun battery? The troop carrier wouldn't transform and would be able to carry a lot of troops and mecha. It'd also give the troops someplace to go to while moving through the axels. We of course see the gun battery version and the big ramp would be a left over from the troop version.

Not that I'd want to deploy from it. The ramp is pretty steep so there's a good chance of mecha and infantry slipping and falling. Plus vehicles have a good chance of ripping out their undercarriage or hitting their front end and tipping forward as they try to leave the upper part to get to the lower ramp. Then there's the pilot's location, in a ball turret in the roof where they can't see anything. Not that I can figure out how they get into it with the guns there. And it deploys through the bridge and cargo bay to the ground. Those are really long telescoping arms for the chair. Wouldn't they take up a lot of space on the bridge? And how do they keep the cargo from falling out when the pilot comes and goes? And why the chair loading thing anyway? Why not a second ramp to deploy troops faster? I can't help but wonder if we're just seeing the preproduction version and that the final version would have been much different in the show.

I'm not sure how practical it is. Not with it transforming.

[ShadowLogan]

I don't know how likely it would be though. Zentraedi foot soldiers always felt more like internal security than infantry troops.

I don't think the lack of infantry use is necessarily an idea killer, we don't know if the Zentreadi use regular infantry based on the show. Said platform could also be deployed to support Zentreadi one-person mecha on the ground when their capital and sub-capital ships would not be practical.

If there are natural "giants" out there of similar size to the Zentreadi, they might have conventional vehicles that could necessitate the Zentreadi have similar vehicles to match them effectively (the M1A1 Abrams has what a 105 or 120mm main cannon for human sized operators, what do you think various attributes of it would look like if that platform was made for beings 6-10x larger?). It also could function for other roles such as an AAA for big aircraft/spacecraft (freeing up capital ships), or direct fire options you can't easily get with a capital ship, etc.

I guess the GMU/Titan could work as a massive APC. As long as it doesn't transform.

Based on dimensions for either edition of the RPG, yes it could function as an APC, possibly with large capacity depending on how the seating arrangement is laid out.

I'm not sure I share the "it can't transfrom" requirement without it being defined. If you mean transformations like the SDF-1 or Veritech mecha, then yes I can agree. However, I don't consider the GMU to transform this way, it has more of a set of " simple" retractable features that the Zentreadi and Masters could use as they are familiar with the concept of retractable weapons.

kind of wonder if there should be two versions? A troop carrier and a mobile fortress/gun battery? The troop carrier wouldn't transform and would be able to carry a lot of troops and mecha. It'd also give the troops someplace to go to while moving through the axels. We of course see the gun battery version and the big ramp would be a left over from the troop version.

For the Zentreadi version of the GMU, yeah I can see it as an IFV and/or a mobile-gun role. I don't see a reason you couldn't have both based on a common chassis.

I'm not sure it would be real viable for transporting Zentreadi mecha in terms of:
-size (more so for 1st Ed), while they can "fit" it could be a tight fit depending on how one goes about it if you try to maximize things, or you end up with a "why bother" level potentially.
-mainly though unless the EF refits heavily downgraded their ground speed (which is under 100kph in 2E), they don't really offer any real benefit to the Zentreadi Pods (running speeds of ~280kph, both PA can fly) like they do human mecha designs (plus for humans the mecha-bay might have servicing equipment, which likely is lacking for a Zentreadi version).

Not that I'd want to deploy from it. The ramp is pretty steep so there's a good chance of mecha and infantry slipping and falling.

Keep in mind that what you are basing this on is the "EF" baseline. A Zentreadi version might not have the issue(s) and we don't know about it since the EF could have made changes resulting in. For example the Bridge/Mecha-Bay sections might have had retractable giant-size chairs like we see on the human-size version for the bridge module (though why the needed that I don't know).

Infantry deploying from the Wheels, similar to the EF's Cyclones is a possibility (otherwise what was the purpose of all that empty space on the Zent. version). I don't think you could easily get a mecha into those wheels in a practical sense. Seating them in the gun/shield areas is possible, though here what the disembarkation ramp would look like is anyone guess (and might be less "hazardous" as the human mecha ramp)

The deployment ramp on the EF version has an angle of ~40degrees (I measured the angle in 1E's REF Field Guide), which is pretty steep compared to wheel chair accessible ramp requirements (5degrees in public, 15deg at home), though is getting close to 50deg that is considered difficult for humans to walk (assuming that remains constant for mecha and giant). So it isn't per-say a hazard, though it is getting close to it (based on quick internet searches, most of which did a rise/run ratio instead of angle).

[Sambot]

I don't know how likely it would be though. Zentraedi foot soldiers always felt more like internal security than infantry troops.

I don't think the lack of infantry use is necessarily an idea killer, we don't know if the Zentreadi use regular infantry based on the show. Said platform could also be deployed to support Zentreadi one-person mecha on the ground when their capital and sub-capital ships would not be practical.

That is true.

If there are natural "giants" out there of similar size to the Zentreadi, they might have conventional vehicles that could necessitate the Zentreadi have similar vehicles to match them effectively (the M1A1 Abrams has what a 105 or 120mm main cannon for human sized operators, what do you think various attributes of it would look like if that platform was made for beings 6-10x larger?). It also could function for other roles such as an AAA for big aircraft/spacecraft (freeing up capital ships), or direct fire options you can't easily get with a capital ship, etc.

True, there could be other giants out there similar in size to the Zentraedi. I don't know if that means the Zentraedi need a vehicle but I can see them using one. Mecha may not always be the most practical combat unit. The GMU/Titan is more than just a Zentraedi sized tank though. Still, I can see it being useful when orbital bombardment isn't an option.

I guess the GMU/Titan could work as a massive APC. As long as it doesn't transform.

Based on dimensions for either edition of the RPG, yes it could function as an APC, possibly with large capacity depending on how the seating arrangement is laid out.

I'm not sure I share the "it can't transfrom" requirement without it being defined. If you mean transformations like the SDF-1 or Veritech mecha, then yes I can agree. However, I don't consider the GMU to transform this way, it has more of a set of " simple" retractable features that the Zentreadi and Masters could use as they are familiar with the concept of retractable weapons.

It isn't deployable weapons, although that would use up troop space. The bridge/entry areas slide apart so the main gun can deploy. The triangle things pop up and then the thruster sections fold out 90 degrees. If it didn't do that, then I could see mecha and full sized Zentraedi being deployed from it.

kind of wonder if there should be two versions? A troop carrier and a mobile fortress/gun battery? The troop carrier wouldn't transform and would be able to carry a lot of troops and mecha. It'd also give the troops someplace to go to while moving through the axels. We of course see the gun battery version and the big ramp would be a left over from the troop version.

For the Zentreadi version of the GMU, yeah I can see it as an IFV and/or a mobile-gun role. I don't see a reason you couldn't have both based on a common chassis.

I'm not sure it would be real viable for transporting Zentreadi mecha in terms of:
-size (more so for 1st Ed), while they can "fit" it could be a tight fit depending on how one goes about it if you try to maximize things, or you end up with a "why bother" level potentially.
-mainly though unless the EF refits heavily downgraded their ground speed (which is under 100kph in 2E), they don't really offer any real benefit to the Zentreadi Pods (running speeds of ~280kph, both PA can fly) like they do human mecha designs (plus for humans the mecha-bay might have servicing equipment, which likely is lacking for a Zentreadi version).

If it carried Zentraedi Mecha, I would think it'd just be the Male Power Armor (Not going to spell it right now.) or something Human sized. Maybe it's to transport Bioroids? Any other mecha I would think would be too big unless it had a larger troop bay.

Not that I'd want to deploy from it. The ramp is pretty steep so there's a good chance of mecha and infantry slipping and falling.

Keep in mind that what you are basing this on is the "EF" baseline. A Zentreadi version might not have the issue(s) and we don't know about it since the EF could have made changes resulting in. For example the Bridge/Mecha-Bay sections might have had retractable giant-size chairs like we see on the human-size version for the bridge module (though why the needed that I don't know).

I can't see a Zentraedi sized retractable chair. It'd take up too much space. The current one takes up too much space. I really think that would of ended up being deleted by the time the GMU/Titan was animated. It seems cool but doesn't really work.

Infantry deploying from the Wheels, similar to the EF's Cyclones is a possibility (otherwise what was the purpose of all that empty space on the Zent. version). I don't think you could easily get a mecha into those wheels in a practical sense. Seating them in the gun/shield areas is possible, though here what the disembarkation ramp would look like is anyone guess (and might be less "hazardous" as the human mecha ramp)

I'm not sure you could get full sized Zentraedi in and out of the wheels easy enough to make it a practical deployment method.

The deployment ramp on the EF version has an angle of ~40degrees (I measured the angle in 1E's REF Field Guide), which is pretty steep compared to wheel chair accessible ramp requirements (5degrees in public, 15deg at home), though is getting close to 50deg that is considered difficult for humans to walk (assuming that remains constant for mecha and giant). So it isn't per-say a hazard, though it is getting close to it (based on quick internet searches, most of which did a rise/run ratio instead of angle).

That's pretty steep. People can slip on level ground. I think there'd be plenty of accidents when the ramp is dry. If it's wet or icy it'd be too dangerous to use.

[ShadowLogan]

True, there could be other giants out there similar in size to the Zentraedi. I don't know if that means the Zentraedi need a vehicle but I can see them using one. Mecha may not always be the most practical combat unit. The GMU/Titan is more than just a Zentraedi sized tank though. Still, I can see it being useful when orbital bombardment isn't an option.

You are right that the GMU/Titan as the EF configured it is more than a Zentreadi sized tank. However that is no guarantee that is how the Zentreadi configured it originally. The operator space reserved for 1x giant operator can be configured for operations by multiple human-sized operators (3-4 in the Regult's seat as seen in the animation) and could even be spread across several levels (due to height). With the general trend of smaller sized mecha used by the EF and ASC, you could in theory turn another work station into a multi-slot mecha bay which the baseline version would not be capable of.

If it carried Zentraedi Mecha, I would think it'd just be the Male Power Armor (Not going to spell it right now.) or something Human sized. Maybe it's to transport Bioroids? Any other mecha I would think would be too big unless it had a larger troop bay.

See I don't think a Zentreadi-version would be tasked with transporting mecha. Unless the EF version is drastically overburdened, the Regults and MPA can all go faster. The Zentreadi don't have any known human-sized mecha (maybe drones), and can't fit into a Bioroid (unless micronized).

Really the only three roles I can see are: bulk cargo transport, APC/IFV for non-mecha infantry, and as a mobile-gun system (tank, SPA, tank destroyer, etc).

By Area (using GMU in "box" mode) and squeezing people in tight as can be in a standing room only, the gun section could hold ~38 giants in 1E or ~214 in 2E, and if the thruster modules are removed (about 1/2 the length each w/similar width) you essentially double that. Now standing room only and tight as can be is not very practical with a more likely 1/4-1/3 of that being most likely I would think. In that same area you could get ~7 Regults in 1E or ~16 in 2E, though it should be noted the Regults are too wide in 1E (and swapping width for length doesn't help either).

I can't see a Zentraedi sized retractable chair. It'd take up too much space. The current one takes up too much space. I really think that would of ended up being deleted by the time the GMU/Titan was animated. It seems cool but doesn't really work.

I never understood the need in the EF version to have the pilot's chair retract down like that that.

As for a Zentreadi retractable chair, the distance from the top of the ramp on the Mecha Module (ie its floor) to the ground is a tad shorter than the height of the (external) module bay. In 1E it would have to descend approx. ~10m for a ~17m tall giant, for 2E it would have to go ~15m for an 8.5-11m tall giant. And you might be right they might not even use a retractable chair, with those relative heights they could probably just climb a simple (retractable) ladder

I'm not sure you could get full sized Zentraedi in and out of the wheels easy enough to make it a practical deployment method.

A full-sized Zentreadi could not utilize the Cyclone hatches, those would be part of a human retro-fit. But in terms of extracting themselves from the cavity, the section with the cyclone hatches does have a defined edge to it in the lineart, so if that was originally a hatch it would have a diameter of ~7.35m in 1E (not walking out, but certainly large enough to fit them by shoulder width) or ~10.99m in 2E (crap they could actually walk out if that was a hatch, won't work for any known Zentreadi mecha). And surprisingly that would be large enough for a good cross section of human mecha to use it as a deployment bay, with the exception of the more obvious Macross-era/Beta-sized mecha (and in 1E that would also include a cross section of EF destroids and the Alpha/AGAC).

[Sambot]

True, there could be other giants out there similar in size to the Zentraedi. I don't know if that means the Zentraedi need a vehicle but I can see them using one. Mecha may not always be the most practical combat unit. The GMU/Titan is more than just a Zentraedi sized tank though. Still, I can see it being useful when orbital bombardment isn't an option.

You are right that the GMU/Titan as the EF configured it is more than a Zentreadi sized tank. However that is no guarantee that is how the Zentreadi configured it originally. The operator space reserved for 1x giant operator can be configured for operations by multiple human-sized operators (3-4 in the Regult's seat as seen in the animation) and could even be spread across several levels (due to height). With the general trend of smaller sized mecha used by the EF and ASC, you could in theory turn another work station into a multi-slot mecha bay which the baseline version would not be capable of.

True

If it carried Zentraedi Mecha, I would think it'd just be the Male Power Armor (Not going to spell it right now.) or something Human sized. Maybe it's to transport Bioroids? Any other mecha I would think would be too big unless it had a larger troop bay.

See I don't think a Zentreadi-version would be tasked with transporting mecha. Unless the EF version is drastically overburdened, the Regults and MPA can all go faster. The Zentreadi don't have any known human-sized mecha (maybe drones), and can't fit into a Bioroid (unless micronized).

I think there could have been Human sized mecha for the Zentraedi. They were designed to be micronized and they did have that crew piloted Battle Pod. Unless, they piloted Bioroids, there could have been human sized, or rather Tirolean sized, mecha for micronized Zentraedi to operate where full size wouldn't work.

With the angular design instead of organic, maybe the GMU/Titan could have been inspired by a Tirolean vehicle? Without their hover platforms Bioroids aren't very fast.

Really the only three roles I can see are: bulk cargo transport, APC/IFV for non-mecha infantry, and as a mobile-gun system (tank, SPA, tank destroyer, etc).

Me too. Maybe a mobile MASH, mobile HQ, or mobile mecha recovery/reloading/repair bay? If the Zentraedi had such things. Maybe it could of been a mobile exploration vehicle? Something Zor could wonder around in after parking the SDF-1? It should have plenty of space for labs and quarters and still have room for a security detachment.

By Area (using GMU in "box" mode) and squeezing people in tight as can be in a standing room only, the gun section could hold ~38 giants in 1E or ~214 in 2E, and if the thruster modules are removed (about 1/2 the length each w/similar width) you essentially double that. Now standing room only and tight as can be is not very practical with a more likely 1/4-1/3 of that being most likely I would think. In that same area you could get ~7 Regults in 1E or ~16 in 2E, though it should be noted the Regults are too wide in 1E (and swapping width for length doesn't help either).

Is that 38-214 for the entire upper box or just the sides without the gun? I could see the gun with troop compartments on each side. Not that many. Maybe a 1/3 for each side.

I can't see a Zentraedi sized retractable chair. It'd take up too much space. The current one takes up too much space. I really think that would of ended up being deleted by the time the GMU/Titan was animated. It seems cool but doesn't really work.

I never understood the need in the EF version to have the pilot's chair retract down like that that.

As for a Zentreadi retractable chair, the distance from the top of the ramp on the Mecha Module (ie its floor) to the ground is a tad shorter than the height of the (external) module bay. In 1E it would have to descend approx. ~10m for a ~17m tall giant, for 2E it would have to go ~15m for an 8.5-11m tall giant. And you might be right they might not even use a retractable chair, with those relative heights they could probably just climb a simple (retractable) ladder

Me either. That's why I think it'd of gotten deleted before we saw it on screen.

A retractable ladder would make more sense but they could have just had a second ramp or if it didn't transform, simply walk up the ramp and over to the cockpit area.

I'm not sure you could get full sized Zentraedi in and out of the wheels easy enough to make it a practical deployment method.

A full-sized Zentreadi could not utilize the Cyclone hatches, those would be part of a human retro-fit. But in terms of extracting themselves from the cavity, the section with the cyclone hatches does have a defined edge to it in the lineart, so if that was originally a hatch it would have a diameter of ~7.35m in 1E (not walking out, but certainly large enough to fit them by shoulder width) or ~10.99m in 2E (crap they could actually walk out if that was a hatch, won't work for any known Zentreadi mecha). And surprisingly that would be large enough for a good cross section of human mecha to use it as a deployment bay, with the exception of the more obvious Macross-era/Beta-sized mecha (and in 1E that would also include a cross section of EF destroids and the Alpha/AGAC).

I suppose there could be hatches for full size Zentraedi. They might want ramps too.

[ShadowLogan]

I think there could have been Human sized mecha for the Zentraedi. They were designed to be micronized and they did have that crew piloted Battle Pod. Unless, they piloted Bioroids, there could have been human sized, or rather Tirolean sized, mecha for micronized Zentraedi to operate where full size wouldn't work.

With the angular design instead of organic, maybe the GMU/Titan could have been inspired by a Tirolean vehicle? Without their hover platforms Bioroids aren't very fast.

While the Zentreadi are capable of being micronized we don't know the specifics of why this would be done really or even how often it was done. If they used a micronian crewed Regult (or any other existing mecha) that would not point to them having a pure human-sized mecha (which is what I should have said earlier), so if there are reasons to make a giant crewed Regult (or other mecha) impractical it would still be retained in the conversion. It should be pointed out we don't know where the micronian crewed TBP came from for the spies to evacuate the SDF-1 (in primary canon, I know the Novels had their explanation, but that is for their own universe), as it wasn't used in the mass defection (those where all regular control setups IIRC).

It's also possible that the EF retrofits altered the external design altering its basic lines (they did this with the SDF-1 pre-crash IINM, they did this with the RFS/SSL in current cannon, they did not do it though with the Z3 in 1E but I don't know off-hand if the Z3 in 1E is a Palladium Invention or something from Sentinels materials, so there are examples of rebuilt units having their lines altered).

Me too. Maybe a mobile MASH, mobile HQ, or mobile mecha recovery/reloading/repair bay? If the Zentraedi had such things. Maybe it could of been a mobile exploration vehicle? Something Zor could wonder around in after parking the SDF-1? It should have plenty of space for labs and quarters and still have room for a security detachment.

The examples for Zentreadi alternate missions would seem to be something they could achive with a variant of the Re-Entry Pod if they had them. It might work as the equivalent of a giant-size Zentreadi field ambulance though.

As for Zor, I would think he would have something from the Masters to use. And we know the Masters do have conventional hover vehicles as seen in the animation. I would think Zor would find those more conductive to exploration than a Zentreadi vehicle for a variety of reasons (unless Zor himself was macronized). Remember the GMU is huge, like the Space Shuttle's crawler (sans Shuttle) is dwarfed by it (and this is one of the largest land vehicles in existence as of today, the next two biggest platforms are actually bigger than the GMU but come with an asterisk), so it is not an ideal exploration vehicle given its size IMHO.

By Area (using GMU in "box" mode) and squeezing people in tight as can be in a standing room only, the gun section could hold ~38 giants in 1E or ~214 in 2E, and if the thruster modules are removed (about 1/2 the length each w/similar width) you essentially double that. Now standing room only and tight as can be is not very practical with a more likely 1/4-1/3 of that being most likely I would think. In that same area you could get ~7 Regults in 1E or ~16 in 2E, though it should be noted the Regults are too wide in 1E (and swapping width for length doesn't help either).

Is that 38-214 for the entire upper box or just the sides without the gun? I could see the gun with troop compartments on each side. Not that many. Maybe a 1/3 for each side.

Looking at the GMU's profile lineart (found easily in 1E) looking at the top in "box" mode view... Those numbers assumes the retracted gun section that runs the length is replaced. The side thruster modules (contain the LRMs) are not considered in that available area, they are considered separately (for ease of use I'd say they are about 1/2 the length of the gun section with a similar width, maybe more since you could remove the pop-up shields in front of them) though in relation to it size wise.

A full-sized Zentreadi could not utilize the Cyclone hatches, those would be part of a human retro-fit. But in terms of extracting themselves from the cavity, the section with the cyclone hatches does have a defined edge to it in the lineart, so if that was originally a hatch it would have a diameter of ~7.35m in 1E (not walking out, but certainly large enough to fit them by shoulder width) or ~10.99m in 2E (crap they could actually walk out if that was a hatch, won't work for any known Zentreadi mecha). And surprisingly that would be large enough for a good cross section of human mecha to use it as a deployment bay, with the exception of the more obvious Macross-era/Beta-sized mecha (and in 1E that would also include a cross section of EF destroids and the Alpha/AGAC).

I suppose there could be hatches for full size Zentraedi. They might want ramps too.

Hatches can double as ramps. In either edition the hatch as a ramp would have an angle of ~21.5deg if the full diameter of the height is used for the ramp (with height of 2.5m in 1E, 3.745m in 2E), a bit steep for wheel chair accessibility I mentioned early, but a lot closer than the EF's mecha-bay ramp of ~40deg I found earlier.

[Sambot]

I think there could have been Human sized mecha for the Zentraedi. They were designed to be micronized and they did have that crew piloted Battle Pod. Unless, they piloted Bioroids, there could have been human sized, or rather Tirolean sized, mecha for micronized Zentraedi to operate where full size wouldn't work.

With the angular design instead of organic, maybe the GMU/Titan could have been inspired by a Tirolean vehicle? Without their hover platforms Bioroids aren't very fast.

While the Zentreadi are capable of being micronized we don't know the specifics of why this would be done really or even how often it was done. If they used a micronian crewed Regult (or any other existing mecha) that would not point to them having a pure human-sized mecha (which is what I should have said earlier), so if there are reasons to make a giant crewed Regult (or other mecha) impractical it would still be retained in the conversion. It should be pointed out we don't know where the micronian crewed TBP came from for the spies to evacuate the SDF-1 (in primary canon, I know the Novels had their explanation, but that is for their own universe), as it wasn't used in the mass defection (those where all regular control setups IIRC).

It's also possible that the EF retrofits altered the external design altering its basic lines (they did this with the SDF-1 pre-crash IINM, they did this with the RFS/SSL in current cannon, they did not do it though with the Z3 in 1E but I don't know off-hand if the Z3 in 1E is a Palladium Invention or something from Sentinels materials, so there are examples of rebuilt units having their lines altered).

True. The reason for the sizing capability has been left unanswered. I would think though that the Masters would want their army of servants and warriors to be able to serve in any location. The Zentraedi can't serve or protect in Human/Tirolean sized environments when at full size. To me it'd make sense that there'd be some mecha small sized Zentraedi could operate. I don't know if they're all converted Battle Pods though. The size of the pods limits where they could go. I would think they'd need smaller mecha to fight in tunnels and caves as well as buildings and hives.

True, we don't know where the crew piloted Battle Pod came from. That's another mystery. I like to think that there were hangers that the Humans missed or just forgot about during their rebuilding of the SDF-1. They did miss finding the Protoculture Matrix. The area where Rick and Minmay were early in the series seems forgotten about too. So an unknown/forgotten hanger with a Battle Pod is possible.

The pod itself does have a different cockpit hatch. The pods used by the defectors have a normal hatch. That could be an animator's error but the different hatch would make it easier for micronized crews to enter and exit. The spies' pod does seem to be full size controls as well as micronized controls so it looks like it's convertible. There are sounds of power tools so they could have been installing equipment already available or they could just be performing maintenance. It hadn't been used in over a decade so it probably needed some.

I lean towards the Z3 being a Palladium creation. Something extra for Zentraedi besides the two Battle Pods. As written it doesn't work. Pilot's can't get into the Beta while attached to the Alpha nor is there room for two passengers in the Beta's cockpit.

Me too. Maybe a mobile MASH, mobile HQ, or mobile mecha recovery/reloading/repair bay? If the Zentraedi had such things. Maybe it could of been a mobile exploration vehicle? Something Zor could wonder around in after parking the SDF-1? It should have plenty of space for labs and quarters and still have room for a security detachment.

The examples for Zentreadi alternate missions would seem to be something they could achive with a variant of the Re-Entry Pod if they had them. It might work as the equivalent of a giant-size Zentreadi field ambulance though.

That's true I guess, only they still risk being shot down. With a GMU/Titan they could land at safely a distance and allow the GMU/Titan to close.

As for Zor, I would think he would have something from the Masters to use. And we know the Masters do have conventional hover vehicles as seen in the animation. I would think Zor would find those more conductive to exploration than a Zentreadi vehicle for a variety of reasons (unless Zor himself was macronized). Remember the GMU is huge, like the Space Shuttle's crawler (sans Shuttle) is dwarfed by it (and this is one of the largest land vehicles in existence as of today, the next two biggest platforms are actually bigger than the GMU but come with an asterisk), so it is not an ideal exploration vehicle given its size IMHO.

Oh certainly but the GMU is far smaller than the SDF-1. It could be used to move around and then deploy smaller vehicles for a closer look. It could also have space for labs so Zor, or other scientists, wouldn't have to continually return to the mother ship to conduct research. They could do it right there.

By Area (using GMU in "box" mode) and squeezing people in tight as can be in a standing room only, the gun section could hold ~38 giants in 1E or ~214 in 2E, and if the thruster modules are removed (about 1/2 the length each w/similar width) you essentially double that. Now standing room only and tight as can be is not very practical with a more likely 1/4-1/3 of that being most likely I would think. In that same area you could get ~7 Regults in 1E or ~16 in 2E, though it should be noted the Regults are too wide in 1E (and swapping width for length doesn't help either).

Is that 38-214 for the entire upper box or just the sides without the gun? I could see the gun with troop compartments on each side. Not that many. Maybe a 1/3 for each side.

Looking at the GMU's profile lineart (found easily in 1E) looking at the top in "box" mode view... Those numbers assumes the retracted gun section that runs the length is replaced. The side thruster modules (contain the LRMs) are not considered in that available area, they are considered separately (for ease of use I'd say they are about 1/2 the length of the gun section with a similar width, maybe more since you could remove the pop-up shields in front of them) though in relation to it size wise.

So the numbers are for the full center section and half the side sections?

A full-sized Zentreadi could not utilize the Cyclone hatches, those would be part of a human retro-fit. But in terms of extracting themselves from the cavity, the section with the cyclone hatches does have a defined edge to it in the lineart, so if that was originally a hatch it would have a diameter of ~7.35m in 1E (not walking out, but certainly large enough to fit them by shoulder width) or ~10.99m in 2E (crap they could actually walk out if that was a hatch, won't work for any known Zentreadi mecha). And surprisingly that would be large enough for a good cross section of human mecha to use it as a deployment bay, with the exception of the more obvious Macross-era/Beta-sized mecha (and in 1E that would also include a cross section of EF destroids and the Alpha/AGAC).

I suppose there could be hatches for full size Zentraedi. They might want ramps too.

Hatches can double as ramps. In either edition the hatch as a ramp would have an angle of ~21.5deg if the full diameter of the height is used for the ramp (with height of 2.5m in 1E, 3.745m in 2E), a bit steep for wheel chair accessibility I mentioned early, but a lot closer than the EF's mecha-bay ramp of ~40deg I found earlier.

That's true. The door being a ramp would be a lot easier on the troops than the main ramp. More so if the door/ramp could be extended.

[ShadowLogan]

The reason for the sizing capability has been left unanswered. I would think though that the Masters would want their army of servants and warriors to be able to serve in any location. The Zentraedi can't serve or protect in Human/Tirolean sized environments when at full size.

The Zentreadi though have a standing order to avoid contact with micronian worlds, that is established in the show. Which to date would rule out them engaging any of the known races based on relative size, culturally they are probably fine having contact with Invid and the Haydonites. The other known Sentinel races would seem to be out. Now that warning was a late addition possibly given the reasons for it (pre-Earth contact with a world like Earth that nearly destroyed them). I would also point out given the lack of micronian gear the spies & Exeedore's diplomatic mission could use/take with them (their clothing looks very improvised before they could acquire human stuff), which suggests micronian status wasn't something they intended to be used.

I lean towards the Z3 being a Palladium creation. Something extra for Zentraedi besides the two Battle Pods. As written it doesn't work. Pilot's can't get into the Beta while attached to the Alpha nor is there room for two passengers in the Beta's cockpit.

The Z3 really wasn't for the EF Zentreadi to use though. And for its available Volume Palladium really left a lot of space available given what they call out was included (it has a 10ft x 10ft x 10ft storage bay and another for 12x cyclones, which can both easily fit into one giant's workstation volume never mind the 4x it was supposed to have).

As for the Beta. Technically its been modified as the bomb bay has been replaced by seating for x8 (which is probably being generous). PB technically granted the Beta 2x optional crew stations, which while I agree would not work as described (optional crew stations) you might still be able to squeeze them as simple passenger station behind the pilot in the access well that connects it to the bomb-bay. However given the Bomb-Bay was modified for additional seating it is possible other seating expansion options where also utilized fleet wide instead of with just the modified "escape capsule" variant in the 1E RPG.

That's true I guess, only they still risk being shot down. With a GMU/Titan they could land at safely a distance and allow the GMU/Titan to close.

True, but in theory the Re-Entry Pods could relocate themselves after landing. I would point out that the Re-Entry Pods did land fairly close to Macross Island in the show. Their giant size might also be a factor in how they perceive acceptable distances (a mile for us might seem "long" but for a being 6-10x bigger they may see our "mile" as "short").

Oh certainly but the GMU is far smaller than the SDF-1. It could be used to move around and then deploy smaller vehicles for a closer look. It could also have space for labs so Zor, or other scientists, wouldn't have to continually return to the mother ship to conduct research. They could do it right there.

I think we can rule out Zor using the thing on the SDF-1, at least for the PB RPG-verses, given the numerical numbers the EF had of these things (in 1E the SDF-3 carried 6-12x, each Ikazuchi 4-6x) would point them away from being on the SDF-1/Masters-design (when the SDF-3 left in 2022, Masters aren't encountered until 2029) and being part of the Zentreadi forces IF we go with them being repurposed alien vehicles. Now the Masters could have a similar sized ground platforms, but I doubt they would be used outside of the roles we use them for (they don't make ideal exploration vehicles). The Zentreadi, due to their larger size would have proportionally larger vehicles.

So the numbers are for the full center section and half the side sections?

Just the full center section.

[Each Side Section capacity] = [center section capacity] * [proportional length of center section]

All 3 sections have approximately the same width so the only thing to change is the available length you should be able to do proportions for a quick figure. This allows more flexibility in terms of configurations by the GM in terms of figuring out capacity.

It should also be pointed out (again) the number assumes everyone is packed in tight as can be with standing room only, so practically speaking the number will be smaller.

[Sambot]

The reason for the sizing capability has been left unanswered. I would think though that the Masters would want their army of servants and warriors to be able to serve in any location. The Zentraedi can't serve or protect in Human/Tirolean sized environments when at full size.

The Zentreadi though have a standing order to avoid contact with micronian worlds, that is established in the show. Which to date would rule out them engaging any of the known races based on relative size, culturally they are probably fine having contact with Invid and the Haydonites. The other known Sentinel races would seem to be out. Now that warning was a late addition possibly given the reasons for it (pre-Earth contact with a world like Earth that nearly destroyed them). I would also point out given the lack of micronian gear the spies & Exeedore's diplomatic mission could use/take with them (their clothing looks very improvised before they could acquire human stuff), which suggests micronian status wasn't something they intended to be used.

Didn't the avoid contact order come after the Master's civil war? And define contact? They still had some contact with the Masters. They also had contact with the Sentinels races and Humans and probably others in order to invader them. So combat seems okay but not mixing with the locals. That's where the problem seems to be. I think, long ago, that Zentraedi did operate micronized. Then after the Master's civil war they were ordered not to mix with the locals, including the Masters, and either turned in all the micronized equipment or just left it to deteriorate. Removing the chambers was deemed to expensive/troublesome to bother with and could still be used if needed. That's why they still had the sizing chambers, and transport containers the spies and Miriya were transported in, and crew served battle pods. As a just in case.

I lean towards the Z3 being a Palladium creation. Something extra for Zentraedi besides the two Battle Pods. As written it doesn't work. Pilot's can't get into the Beta while attached to the Alpha nor is there room for two passengers in the Beta's cockpit.

The Z3 really wasn't for the EF Zentreadi to use though. And for its available Volume Palladium really left a lot of space available given what they call out was included (it has a 10ft x 10ft x 10ft storage bay and another for 12x cyclones, which can both easily fit into one giant's workstation volume never mind the 4x it was supposed to have).

As for the Beta. Technically its been modified as the bomb bay has been replaced by seating for x8 (which is probably being generous). PB technically granted the Beta 2x optional crew stations, which while I agree would not work as described (optional crew stations) you might still be able to squeeze them as simple passenger station behind the pilot in the access well that connects it to the bomb-bay. However given the Bomb-Bay was modified for additional seating it is possible other seating expansion options where also utilized fleet wide instead of with just the modified "escape capsule" variant in the 1E RPG.

If you're going to probe in the the Zentraedi's and Master's old territory, it would be make sense to do it in a Zentraedi ship. The Z3 is big enough for multiple crews, one for each watch and at least a minimal amount of quarters. It's theAlpha/Beta combination as an escape pod that I don't think works. I don't have a problem with the converted bomb bay but how does the pilot get into the Beta's cockpit when attached the the Alpha?

That's true I guess, only they still risk being shot down. With a GMU/Titan they could land at safely a distance and allow the GMU/Titan to close.

True, but in theory the Re-Entry Pods could relocate themselves after landing. I would point out that the Re-Entry Pods did land fairly close to Macross Island in the show. Their giant size might also be a factor in how they perceive acceptable distances (a mile for us might seem "long" but for a being 6-10x bigger they may see our "mile" as "short").

True, they could move forward but didn't the Re-Entry Pods land in the water on the cliff side of the island? That would have put them out of range for many of the DF's weapons.

Oh certainly but the GMU is far smaller than the SDF-1. It could be used to move around and then deploy smaller vehicles for a closer look. It could also have space for labs so Zor, or other scientists, wouldn't have to continually return to the mother ship to conduct research. They could do it right there.

I think we can rule out Zor using the thing on the SDF-1, at least for the PB RPG-verses, given the numerical numbers the EF had of these things (in 1E the SDF-3 carried 6-12x, each Ikazuchi 4-6x) would point them away from being on the SDF-1/Masters-design (when the SDF-3 left in 2022, Masters aren't encountered until 2029) and being part of the Zentreadi forces IF we go with them being repurposed alien vehicles. Now the Masters could have a similar sized ground platforms, but I doubt they would be used outside of the roles we use them for (they don't make ideal exploration vehicles). The Zentreadi, due to their larger size would have proportionally larger vehicles.

Not necessarily. That there wasn't one the SDF-1 when it crashed doesn't mean that Zor couldn't have used one. It would be a lot easier to move around in it than to keep moving the SDF-1. If it SDF-1 was a landing ship the GMU would be like a semi with trailers or a really big RV that Zor could move in and it could carry ATVs for when it isn't practical to move the GMU.

So the numbers are for the full center section and half the side sections?

Just the full center section.

[Each Side Section capacity] = [center section capacity] * [proportional length of center section]

All 3 sections have approximately the same width so the only thing to change is the available length you should be able to do proportions for a quick figure. This allows more flexibility in terms of configurations by the GM in terms of figuring out capacity.

It should also be pointed out (again) the number assumes everyone is packed in tight as can be with standing room only, so practically speaking the number will be smaller.

So going by 1E, 30 troopers in the middle and 20 on either side, plus some in each wheel. So maybe 100-120 overall?

[ShadowLogan]

Didn't the avoid contact order come after the Master's civil war? And define contact? They still had some contact with the Masters. They also had contact with the Sentinels races and Humans and probably others in order to invader them. So combat seems okay but not mixing with the locals. That's where the problem seems to be. I think, long ago, that Zentraedi did operate micronized. Then after the Master's civil war they were ordered not to mix with the locals, including the Masters, and either turned in all the micronized equipment or just left it to deteriorate. Removing the chambers was deemed to expensive/troublesome to bother with and could still be used if needed. That's why they still had the sizing chambers, and transport containers the spies and Miriya were transported in, and crew served battle pods. As a just in case.

I doubt a lot of this:
-1st in the show we don't know how common "micronian" aliens are or who the Zentreadi are actually fighting
-2nd in the show when human-size is established Exedore does make recommendations based on their ancient legends (which state "to keep our hands off any micronian planet"-ep5) which would seem to run counter to the notion of combat with locals is okay.
-3rd in the show we don't know how contact between the Zentreadi and Masters is carried out (which could mean obscuring their true size)
-4th while the Zentreadi started out as micronians (dialogue) they likely used Tirolian equipment and not specialized equipment.
-5th we don't know the actual purpose of the insertion containers, they could just be another example of an improvisation. Even the TBP might fall under this heading (they appear to have had plenty of time with it to make alterations, unlike Vermilion when they escaped in one).

If you're going to probe in the the Zentraedi's and Master's old territory, it would be make sense to do it in a Zentraedi ship. The Z3 is big enough for multiple crews, one for each watch and at least a minimal amount of quarters. It's theAlpha/Beta combination as an escape pod that I don't think works. I don't have a problem with the converted bomb bay but how does the pilot get into the Beta's cockpit when attached the the Alpha?

Access to the regular Beta's "habitable zones" is possible, even while the unit is connected to the Alpha (at least in F-mode). Which can be seen in Ep83 "Reflex Point" where we are shown 2x alternate means of boarding a connected Beta:
-Ariel/Marlene enter via a ramp (which is also present in OSM lineart*) that is part of the "docking neck" component when it was on the ground
-Rand and Annie ascend ropes to gain access via one of the bomb chutes (and after this Rand is shown entering the Beta pilot station from behind and not via descending seat/jaw as seen in a previous episode, and also the lineart).

This sort of runs counter to some of Palladium's notions in 1E, but it is possible. As for the lineart (goto gearsonline, under the Mospeada title find the TLEAD and then #23 image, its a gif, and you an see the ramp and other features mentioned above).

True, they could move forward but didn't the Re-Entry Pods land in the water on the cliff side of the island? That would have put them out of range for many of the DF's weapons.

They did land in the water, but I don't really see a reason they couldn't also land on dry land (depending on how "canon" you take the video games, Battlecry did have them land on dry land in later chapters IIRC). The Pods also came fairly close to shore IINM to recover their pods after the SDF-1 launched into orbit in Ep3 (but before the Fold).

They did land to the west of the island (dialogue). I don't know if I would characterize it as a wall-cliff either as there is a slope on the sea side of the inertior "wall" (possible made when the SDF-1 crashed) which is further supported by the beach landing in the animation.

That there wasn't one the SDF-1 when it crashed doesn't mean that Zor couldn't have used one. It would be a lot easier to move around in it than to keep moving the SDF-1. If it SDF-1 was a landing ship the GMU would be like a semi with trailers or a really big RV that Zor could move in and it could carry ATVs for when it isn't practical to move the GMU.

Perhaps, though I still think it unlikely the Masters/Zor would build such a vehicle for exploration. A Zentreadi vehicle by necessity has to be this big to accommodate its giant-sized crewmen.

So going by 1E, 30 troopers in the middle and 20 on either side, plus some in each wheel. So maybe 100-120 overall?

For 1E and a maximum capacity troop transport I would personally go with 38-max / 2 = 19 (+/- 1 for easier numbers) for the center, with an equal number total on both sides. By Volume a single wheel can hold 4 giants in 1E, though I'd probably only go with 1x each (2 for cramped). So a total of 44-48. The Vehicle would have 1x crew member each in the Bridge and "what-EF-will-use as a mecha-bay".

[xunk16]

I doubt a lot of this:
-1st in the show we don't know how common "micronian" aliens are or who the Zentreadi are actually fighting
-2nd in the show when human-size is established Exedore does make recommendations based on their ancient legends (which state "to keep our hands off any micronian planet"-ep5) which would seem to run counter to the notion of combat with locals is okay.
-3rd in the show we don't know how contact between the Zentreadi and Masters is carried out (which could mean obscuring their true size)
-4th while the Zentreadi started out as micronians (dialogue) they likely used Tirolian equipment and not specialized equipment.
-5th we don't know the actual purpose of the insertion containers, they could just be another example of an improvisation. Even the TBP might fall under this heading (they appear to have had plenty of time with it to make alterations, unlike Vermilion when they escaped in one).

1. Depending on the continuity, giant and micronians are more or less as common. The Warriors comic series did imply of some, but then again, so does the surprise of many zentraedi when first learning Zor's ship has fallen into micronian hands.
2. This might be outside of a certain territory though. Like known races and places could be okay, but unknown cultures outside of Tirol's influence would be considered dangerous, for they would not know to keep Zentreadi acultured. Maybe it would need the supervision of a Master triumvirate?
3. Love and War #2 has actual railings for Trumvirate Mushrooms on the sides of Zentraedi ship walkways. So it'd be fair to think they had direct contact at least for that continuity and the 2nd ed RPG.
4. Most probable... Though at this point Bioroids might not have been a thing yet, not in the beginning at least. It sounds also wrong to me that they ever would pilot Bioroids. I can't remember if there is a specific source for this, but I'm mostly certain bioroids came after the decision of having Giant Zentraedis.