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Immune to Magic is a Minor power that should be treated as a Major power on magic rich environments... Is Nightbane a magic rich environment for this purpose?

Thanks

No change.
No.

For the everyday person in the setting for the NB game, magic is like it is today on earth, there isn't any.
It is only for the people who invovled with the magical world that it is an everyday thing.

Rifts Dimension Book 7: Megaverse Builder has a chart on pp 14-15 detailing the Magic Level of different dimensions, with listed examples of published settings. Two of the major determinants for a dimension's Magic Level are if Ley Lines are visible, and whether or not MDC beings exist.

No Magic Energy: penalties to casting, no ley ley lines, no example dimensions (although something like RECON would fit)
Low Magic Energy: penalties to casting (albeit not as severe), ley lines (if extant at all) are not accessible, example dimensions: Rifts Earth prior to Cataclysm, Beyond the Supernatural, Heroes Unlimited, Systems Failure
Intermediate Magic Energy: ley lines boost abilities, but are neither visible nor have accessible PPE outside rare occasions, example dimensions: Palladium(Fantasy), Hades
High Magic Energy: Ley lines are visible and their PPE is accessible, certain beings converted to MDC, example dimensions: Wormwood, Phase World, Three Galaxies (in general)
Super High Magic: hundreds to thousands of ley lines, example dimension: Rifts Earth

To those we could add the write up for the Splicers setting, which has stronger penalties than the No Magic Energy entry above, and might be labeled something like Anti-Magic Dimension.

Nightbane would best fit in as an Intermediate Magic Energy setting, I suppose, what with certain abilities being boosted by proximity to a ley line, but PPE of the line being generally inaccessible. I would say the Immunity to Magic Superpower would switch from a Minor to Major power in a High Magic Energy dimension and up. I could see, for example, a Kreeghor Invincible Guardsman specialist with Immune to Magic and Immune to Psionics. (ed:sp)

Penalty: Permanently reduce Hit Points and physical S.D.C. by 10% (by 30% if the character has more than 250 points to begin with).

Note: In a magic rich environment, like Rifts Earth, this power should be considered a Maier super abilll'/, and reduce H.P. and S.D.C. by half and tum them into M.D.C.

Based on the penalty involved and that NightSPAWN/bane is a magic rich environment, I would say: "Yes, this should be a Major power."

NMI wrote:

Penalty: Permanently reduce Hit Points and physical S.D.C. by 10% (by 30% if the character has more than 250 points to begin with).

Note: In a magic rich environment, like Rifts Earth, this power should be considered a Maier super abilll'/, and reduce H.P. and S.D.C. by half and tum them into M.D.C.

Based on the penalty involved and that NightSPAWN/bane is a magic rich environment, I would say: "Yes, this should be a Major power."

So are you saying they would become MDC in Nightbane Earth (which is also part of the conversion of minor-to-major involved)? Because that would be seriously overbalancing, given there aren't any other MDC entities/beings in Nightbane.

Curbludgeon wrote:Rifts Dimension Book 7: Megaverse Builder has a chart on pp 14-15 detailing the Magic Level of different dimensions, with listed examples of published settings. Two of the major determinants for a dimension's Magic Level are if Ley Lines are visible, and whether or not MDC beings exist.

No Magic Energy: penalties to casting, no ley ley lines, no example dimensions (although something like RECON would fit)
Low Magic Energy: penalties to casting (albeit not as severe), ley lines (if extant at all) are not accessible, example dimensions: Rifts Earth prior to Cataclysm, Beyond the Supernatural, Heroes Unlimited, Systems Failure
Intermediate Magic Energy: ley lines boost abilities, but are neither visible nor have accessible PPE outside rare occasions, example dimensions: Palladium(Fantasy), Hades
High Magic Energy: Ley lines are visible and their PPE is accessible, certain beings converted to MDC, example dimensions: Wormwood, Phase World, Three Galaxies (in general)
Super High Magic: hundreds to thousands of ley lines, example dimension: Rifts Earth

To those we count add the write up for the Splicers setting, which has stronger penalties than the No Magic Energy entry above, and might be labeled something like Anti-Magic Dimension.

Nightbane would best fit in as an Intermediate Magic Energy setting, I suppose, what with certain abilities being boosted by proximity to a ley line, but PPE of the line being generally inaccessible. I would say the Immunity to Magic Superpower would switch from a Minor to Major power in a High Magic Energy dimension and up. I could see, for example, a Kreeghor Invincible Guardsman specialist with Immune to Magic and Immune to Psionics.

That description for HU/BTS seems...off.

The descriptions of how much additional P.P.E. a mage can use, as well as the effects on their spells, for proximity to ley lines & nexus points in HU2 is identical to the descriptions in PFRPG2 (BTS2, unfortunately, never cleared up the effect on psychics near ley lines & nexus points, let alone for mages, although BTS1 was apparently lower-level than HU2 or PFRPG).

Nightbane is also a bit weird. The additional P.P.E. to be drawn is per level (vs. a fixed number), but is only calculated for a 12-hour period (instead of being per melee). But the additional P.P.E. available from solstices, equinoxes, sunrise/sunset, etc. are all much higher in Nightbane than the other non-Rifts settings.

It kind of feels like the "Low" should just be BTS1, & that both HU2 & pre-Rifts Earth need moved up to Intermediate...

green.nova343 wrote:

NMI wrote:

Penalty: Permanently reduce Hit Points and physical S.D.C. by 10% (by 30% if the character has more than 250 points to begin with).

Note: In a magic rich environment, like Rifts Earth, this power should be considered a Maier super abilll'/, and reduce H.P. and S.D.C. by half and tum them into M.D.C.

Based on the penalty involved and that NightSPAWN/bane is a magic rich environment, I would say: "Yes, this should be a Major power."

So are you saying they would become MDC in Nightbane Earth (which is also part of the conversion of minor-to-major involved)? Because that would be seriously overbalancing, given there aren't any other MDC entities/beings in Nightbane.

If you wanted to play it as MDC sure, but that is NOT what I said. Though Nightbane would be MDC in Rifts Earth in my opinion.

What I mean by my previous statement is that Immune to Magic should be a major in Nightbane - due to the prevalance of magic in that setting!

NMI wrote:

Penalty: Permanently reduce Hit Points and physical S.D.C. by 10% (by 30% if the character has more than 250 points to begin with).

Note: In a magic rich environment, like Rifts Earth, this power should be considered a Maier super abilll'/, and reduce H.P. and S.D.C. by half and tum them into M.D.C.

Based on the penalty involved and that NightSPAWN/bane is a magic rich environment, I would say: "Yes, this should be a Major power."

Question, are the SDC and HP reductions also applicable to level up bonuses, or just at character generation?

lbeaumanior wrote:

NMI wrote:

Penalty: Permanently reduce Hit Points and physical S.D.C. by 10% (by 30% if the character has more than 250 points to begin with).

Note: In a magic rich environment, like Rifts Earth, this power should be considered a Maier super abilll'/, and reduce H.P. and S.D.C. by half and tum them into M.D.C.

Based on the penalty involved and that NightSPAWN/bane is a magic rich environment, I would say: "Yes, this should be a Major power."

Question, are the SDC and HP reductions also applicable to level up bonuses, or just at character generation?

I would say "level up", new physical skills gained, etc.. would all see the SDC reduced appropriately

I would agree that it would be a Major Super Ability if it was stated out to block the effects of all magic. But to make it flip flop from minor to major just because of where the character is, is a bit much.

Then there is the bit about making the char MDC on high magic worlds...(which would end up making the char invulnerable on high magic SDC worlds) is also a bit much. I'd like the idea that it reduces Magic Mega-Damage by 99% ( IOW..making MD magic attacks only do SD ) better.
This might make people think they are vampires....before they are shot with a mundane MD weapon. But then again, the MD/MDC part of the discussion would be better held in the Rifts Forum.

Level up Hp should be reduced too....however, because the level up HP is mostly "+1D6" it is hard to do the math.
----So from a lazy GM perspective I would rule that normal HP level ups are fully effective. But any with more than a "+1D6" would be subject to the reduction if they end up in double digits.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I would agree that it would be a Major Super Ability if it was stated out to block the effects of all magic. But to make it flip flop from minor to major just because of where the character is, is a bit much.

Then there is the bit about making the char MDC on high magic worlds...(which would end up making the char invulnerable on high magic SDC worlds) is also a bit much. I'd like the idea that it reduces Magic Mega-Damage by 99% ( IOW..making MD magic attacks only do SD ) better.
This might make people think they are vampires....before they are shot with a mundane MD weapon. But then again, the MD/MDC part of the discussion would be better held in the Rifts Forum.

Level up Hp should be reduced too....however, because the level up HP is mostly "+1D6" it is hard to do the math.
----So from a lazy GM perspective I would rule that normal HP level ups are fully effective. But any with more than a "+1D6" would be subject to the reduction if they end up in double digits.

A person can have a "high magic" SDC world without it being MDC... In my opinion, Nightbane/SPAWN is a high magic world, especially when compared to HU, Century Station, etc... Is NB Rifts? No. This is HU and in the case of the original question, also NB.

NMI wrote:You can have a "high magic" SDC world without it being MDC... In my opinion, Nightbane/SPAWN is a high magic world, especially when compared to HU, Century Station, etc... Is NB Rifts? No. This is HU and in the case of the original question, also NB.

Critique:
I was expanding on my OP in this topic to include comments about the power itself.
Comment:
Sure there can be a high magic world that is SDC/HP. The PF world use to be one of these.

NMI wrote:I would say "level up", new physical skills gained, etc.. would all see the SDC reduced appropriately

This did prompt my thoughts about Level up HP when having the power being talked about.

I am withdrawing from this conversation....

I'll say no as while there are more magic users etc in the world, the power of magic there is the same as in HU. I wouldn't make Underwater Abilities a major if suddenly the players found themselves on Waterworld and I don't think there is a need to for Immune to Magic.


Daniel Stoker

I would say yes and no or both.
Basically its depend on if you are adding HU to NB or NB to HU.
If the setting is mostly HU with a few NB as a power category and one of the "Bad Guy of the Week" are the Nightlords then its the low magic setting of HU and it should be a minor power as there are relatively few magic foes.

If the setting is mostly NB with HU added to it and almost every plot involves Nightlords, Night Priests, Hounds, Nightbane, and the like? Oh yeah, thats a high magic setting as in any given combat its going to come up, every major villan and *all* the Big Bads are mystical etc.

To me I would quite honestly call the PF setting "high magic" for the purposes of this power because in that setting magic is *the* power and being immune to it is a *huge deal*.

I would say that instead of some arbitrary measure of "what is the ambient PPE score" it should be "How much thematic value is it to the background and underpinnings of the world"