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I'm posting here, rather than the BtS forum because of the cross-line nature of the suggestions.

Magic in BtS2 is going to be different, just like psionics is, and it is going to differ from the rest of the Megaverse. Approval or disproval of that design choice is irrelevant to this discussion. (Source: Forum discussion by interested Palladium authors interested in BtS, comments by Kevin, statements in BtS2 the PPE for magic-users varies like ISP does.) I have no knowledge of how this is planned to go down. But I have *opinions.*

I submit between BtS1, PF's Mysteries of Magic 1, and NB's Through the Glass Darkly, we have the basis for an excellent BtS2 magic supplement.

BtS1 gives a spell list, a series of megalithic sites, and rules for ley lines and all their fun. These would need to be updated to the current ruleset. But BtS1 is still the gold standard for this information throughout Palladium's product lines.

PF's MoM1: The Heart of Magic gives new spells, discussion of PF's magic OCCs, and a lot of metaphysical discussions on how magic works. Not everything is applicable to BtS2, but a lot of it could be utilized for BtS2's underlying metaphysics.

NB's Through the Glass Darkly gives more spells, modern OCCs, rules for charms, familiars, and spell creation, and advice on magic in a horror setting. A lot of this can be used in BtS2 without any modification.

For OCCs, I would like to see:
Sorcerer (TtGD) - a formal apprentice to another mage, possibly member of an organization. Not limited to academia, though that's the most common. The key here is formal training in a mystic discipline. Pretty much a straight port from NB, with new values for PPE.
Mystic (TtGD) - a psychic who focuses psychic potential into magic and psionics. This is not taught so much as learned by intuition. Much more informal, but still possibly part of a mystic tradition. Pretty much a straight port from NB, with new values for PPE.
Arcanist (BtS1) - a self-taught mage. Self-taught here is the key and difference between Sorcerer and Mystic. This is a scholarly OCC, and while it lacks a Sorcerer's depth of knowledge, an Arcanist can get their filthy little paws into anything. Lack of formal training means less PPE, but spells and abilities from any other magic OCC the GM and player can agree on.

I'd really like to see these OCCs somehow tied into BtS's Occupations system. None of them would be a specific Occupation, but there should be some way to tie the two together, so the PC is rooted in the modern world. May keep the Occupation's main skills, scrape out the Elective skills, and keep Secondary skills.

I'd also like to see some modularity for each OCC, to give variety to PCs. I think the Latent Psychic or Medium from BtS2 give a good example of this. The Arcanist, of course, should be the most modular: I learned exorcism from a Vatican Jesuit, some Finnish shaman healing chants, and a bit of necromancy from a crazy guy I meant in Sydney this one time...

thorr-kan wrote:...
Magic in BtS2 is going to be different, just like psionics is, and it is going to differ from the rest of the Megaverse.
...

Can't tell you if I will like any of your hinted changes cause I don't have it in my hands yet.

As for the suggested CCs as templates.....
Sorcerer (TtGD): The BTS game already has a mage Character Class.
Mystic (TtGD): as a PCC as it should be because half the powers this CC has are Psychic and the magic is gained via their psychic abilities, yes.

I'm all for something that attempts to clarify loose ends or unanswered inconsistencies across the games. Like some of the recent forum discussions where there are equally valid opposing views that struggle with balancing RAW with creative gameplay. Even resolving simple questions like - can a mage who has channeled all their PPE into magic, also be rolled up as a minor or major psychic during chargen and, if so, does that lessen their pool of PPE? QoL changes like that.

Re OCCs, there doesn't need to be a reprint of stat blocks, but the psychic Astral Lords from NB would be a good inclusion to BTS, even as just overpowered NPCs. Then references to include astral mages would make sense. With so many psychics with the potential ability to astrally project, this is a part of psionically focused BTS that is underserved in the books IMO that could easily leverage established NB canon.

Except for how PPE vs ISP is handled (which isn't much of a biggie) and in some cases the uses of a modified points buy system for choosing powers/buffs (which I've liked), I've never really seen much of a difference in psionics between BTS and other games, so not sure what is being suggested wrt magic being "different". If magic is different from the rest of the megaverse thematically but mechanically consistent, cool. If the rules for learning and shaping PPE to effect magic is clarified / expanded upon, cool. If the very concept of what magic is and how it works is changing, thereby introducing jarring inconsistencies or negating the game mechanics for all the other PB books while PCs are in the BTS dimension,... well there better be detailed conversion notes or a conversion book released at the same time. NB attempted to change how magic worked... magic being in a sense dynamic and alive... to give it more uncertainty, but it wasn't disruptive and added a good degree of nuance. That's an example of how change worked well, though I grant you the change was more thematic than game mechanics. Regardless, for those involved, all I'd ask is that they remember that compatible doesn't have to equal identical, but please keep the compatibility with the rest of the games - no magical BtS RECON.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:As for the suggested CCs as templates.....
Sorcerer (TtGD): The BTS game already has a mage Character Class.
Mystic (TtGD): as a PCC as it should be because half the powers this CC has are Psychic and the magic is gained via their psychic abilities, yes.

Sorcerer and Arcanist are different enough to merit their own OCCs.

Grazzik wrote:Re OCCs, there doesn't need to be a reprint of stat blocks, but the psychic Astral Lords from NB would be a good inclusion to BTS, even as just overpowered NPCs. Then references to include astral mages would make sense. With so many psychics with the potential ability to astrally project, this is a part of psionically focused BTS that is underserved in the books IMO that could easily leverage established NB canon.

NB's Astral Realm and Dreamstream would make excellent additions. I'm not sure if they'd be best served as an appendix to BtS2 or as a later supplement. They should be completely modular; a lot of BtS players won't use those settings, I think.

Grazzik wrote:Except for how PPE vs ISP is handled (which isn't much of a biggie) and in some cases the uses of a modified points buy system for choosing powers/buffs (which I've liked),...<SNIP!>

BtS2 has really low initial ISP for its characters, with multipliers based on the proximity and power of supernatural threats. Initial values are below 20, and often 10, ISP. PPE is stated to work the same way. "A Note About Magic", p171, top of column 2, BtS2. It makes conversions to the rest of the Megaverse a bit harder.

thorr-kan wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:As for the suggested CCs as templates.....
Sorcerer (TtGD): The BTS game already has a mage Character Class.
Mystic (TtGD): as a PCC as it should be because half the powers this CC has are Psychic and the magic is gained via their psychic abilities, yes.

Sorcerer and Arcanist are different enough to merit their own OCCs.

what I was saying was that the BTS game has it's own general magic mage character class, the Arcanist, and doesn't need another one.
Sort of like how PF has the wizard, & Rifts has the LLW, and NS/NB has the Sorcerer (NS/NB core book).

As for the Magic Note reff.: I really hate the idea of fluctuating PPE base/amount due to presence of the SN. I do like the idea that some spells are more effective vs the SN, than those that have a effect on the physical world.
I can see the spell 'desiccate the SN' turned into a spell called 'desiccate' where it still has the full DtSN effects, but when used on mundanes/mortals it only does a pittance of what it does vs. the SN. And can be used to make dehydrated foodstuffs.