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In what book and page number does it say, that tech from off-world will not work in Palladium Fantasy?

Smiling_Bandit wrote:

The neutral energy matrix also means that technology from Rifts Earth will not function.

Rifts - Dimension Book 07 - Page 65

Is that what you're looking for?

Smiling_Bandit - Also has a neutral energy matrix, as evidenced by his being tuckered out most days

I was hoping for something in PF, but I will take what I can get.

Thanks.

PF2E pg60 (as mentioned already) for W.P. Modern Weapons (guns!) skill on the list.

In PF2E Main Book there is also a bit about technology on pg50 (under Skill Modifiers) and pg34 (Big Bold Section).

Nothing here says that high technology stops working. The MDC technology would "convert" to SDC as outlined in RCB1r (conversion is not simple, some aspects use one rate and others a different rate, then there is the AR aspect, etc). I don't have RDB7.

Basically when it comes to tech keep in mind that sure you could import it, but that tech is going to need support to maintain it (and that support is going to take a lot of forms).

Well, it might not stop working immediately, but if it requires a charge that would be difficult.

-Vek
"Magic based items would revert to SDC but pure tech remains devastating."

According to KS all MDC becomes SDC when entering a SDC world. I personally run it the way Vek says, where tech MDC stays MDC and play it like the anime Gate.

I play this that Palladium has physics slightly different to elsewhere and non magic based advanced tech has a failure chance unless it is fabricated in palladium, So a TK weapon will work fine but a rocket launcher a lot less so.
I also have enforcers that keep an eye on forced tech upgrades from multiversal incursions but not universal incursions. So if aliens invade the tech upgrade is fine, if aliens invade from another dimension they will step in.
Otherwise what is to stop the gods arming their followers in palladium with advanced tech from another dimension.

kiralon wrote:Otherwise what is to stop the gods arming their followers in palladium with advanced tech from another dimension.

Could it be the fear that the release of massive amounts of PPE from weapons of mass destruction might let loose the Old Ones? Just saying... something big is moving around at the end of those tunnels...

Keeping it on the more modest scale, I've played PFRPG with a colony of True Atlanteans hidden in the Old Kingdom, an escaped T-man from a malfunctioning Splugorth d-ship, and a CS soldier-turned-settler rifted to Palladium (against his will) with his hunting rifle. Never had a problem with introducing limited amounts of tech as locals just see it as another form of magic... some kind of boom stick. Though, when talking about guns and bullets, whole stories can be told about locals trying to get their hands on it to replicate its secrets. The PCs recognize the advantage they have pretty quick and try to prevent anyone figuring it out so they don't lose the advantage.

it's pretty much up to the GM whether technology more advanced than the 15th century* works there. as has been pointed out in the earlier comments, we've got official statements both ways.

as far as why tech might not work, personally i've often thought that the neatest explanation is that the old ones set it up that way to make the inhabitants of their private playground less able to oppose them. magic and psi still work because those were things they themselves used, and had extensive control of. which should have allowed them to no-sell any magical or psi attempt to oppose them, but the whole business with Thoth screwed that up.



edit:

Grazzik wrote:

kiralon wrote:Otherwise what is to stop the gods arming their followers in palladium with advanced tech from another dimension.

Could it be the fear that the release of massive amounts of PPE from weapons of mass destruction might let loose the Old Ones? Just saying... something big is moving around at the end of those tunnels...

Keeping it on the more modest scale, I've played PFRPG with a colony of True Atlanteans hidden in the Old Kingdom, an escaped T-man from a malfunctioning Splugorth d-ship, and a CS soldier-turned-settler rifted to Palladium (against his will) with his hunting rifle. Never had a problem with introducing limited amounts of tech as locals just see it as another form of magic... some kind of boom stick. Though, when talking about guns and bullets, whole stories can be told about locals trying to get their hands on it to replicate its secrets. The PCs recognize the advantage they have pretty quick and try to prevent anyone figuring it out so they don't lose the advantage.

Doesn't have to be weapons of mass destruction, imagine arming your army with shotguns and sniping rifles, it would massacre your enemy and there would be less deaths as less from your side would die, so less ppe leak

kiralon wrote:

Grazzik wrote:

kiralon wrote:Otherwise what is to stop the gods arming their followers in palladium with advanced tech from another dimension.

Could it be the fear that the release of massive amounts of PPE from weapons of mass destruction might let loose the Old Ones? Just saying... something big is moving around at the end of those tunnels...

Keeping it on the more modest scale, I've played PFRPG with a colony of True Atlanteans hidden in the Old Kingdom, an escaped T-man from a malfunctioning Splugorth d-ship, and a CS soldier-turned-settler rifted to Palladium (against his will) with his hunting rifle. Never had a problem with introducing limited amounts of tech as locals just see it as another form of magic... some kind of boom stick. Though, when talking about guns and bullets, whole stories can be told about locals trying to get their hands on it to replicate its secrets. The PCs recognize the advantage they have pretty quick and try to prevent anyone figuring it out so they don't lose the advantage.

Doesn't have to be weapons of mass destruction, imagine arming your army with shotguns and sniping rifles, it would massacre your enemy and there would be less deaths as less from your side would die, so less ppe leak

Using examples in PF2E one might argue they already have the basic tech for shotguns/sniper rifles what they lack is the notion of putting those elements together. If PF really has an upper limit of 12-3th Century Medieval Europe, then historically it is possible for gunpowder to exist as it was brought to Europe in the 13th Century (Mongol Invasion), and some of the Alchemist Shop items don't necessarily read as "magic" but rather "science" masquerading as "magic items" (looking at Powders and Fumes off the top of my head) IMHO.

Anyone read the Guardians of the Flame series by Joel Rosenberg?

ShadowLogan wrote:

kiralon wrote:Doesn't have to be weapons of mass destruction, imagine arming your army with shotguns and sniping rifles, it would massacre your enemy and there would be less deaths as less from your side would die, so less ppe leak

Using examples in PF2E one might argue they already have the basic tech for shotguns/sniper rifles what they lack is the notion of putting those elements together. If PF really has an upper limit of 12-3th Century Medieval Europe, then historically it is possible for gunpowder to exist as it was brought to Europe in the 13th Century (Mongol Invasion), and some of the Alchemist Shop items don't necessarily read as "magic" but rather "science" masquerading as "magic items" (looking at Powders and Fumes off the top of my head) IMHO.

Shotguns and rifles is like saying blasting wands and enchanted bows. Depending on how much magic you want to put into items, as magic is the PF version of advanced technology, I'm sure a god or demon magically equipping an army is as much a devastating force as one augmented with shotguns. Just thinking, the Great Rift in the Lands of the Damned is probably overrun from time to time with cohorts of well equipped minions now that demons and dyvals are learning the virtue of tech in the minion war.

Boom is chemistry and chemistry is systemized alchemy focused on the natural world and material science. PF locals aren't stupid, they just see magic as the path of least resistance to produce the effect they want. The thing with material science is that it often requires specialized resources that are hard to get. PPE is available everywhere, if you know where to look.

On the whole, guns are more effective than wands, are easier to mass produce (otherwise wands would be in the hand of every soldier like swords are)
Guns turn everyone into a caster effectively for palladiums tech level, not to mention guns tend to have a further effective range than combat magic.

Rules of RPG's
#1: The GM is always right.
#2: If the GM is wrong see rule #1.

I read a book series where a group of collage students/roll players get transported into another world...into the characters they were playing. Since one of the students was in the civil-engineering course he knew how to make gunpowder. It worked the same. However the other side were magic oriented and they eventually developed their own 'magical equivalent' to gunpowder in the for of powerized steam. For use in their firearm equivalents.
Once an idea is in a world the only way to remove it is to do a purge of All the information sources.

Exactly.

I don't get too hung up on polluting a game setting though, as every time a new set of PCs get rolled up and played, what happened to other PCs has no bearing. If players want to introduce something that was allowed for previous PCs, it might not be allowed for new PCs as it may not be germane to the story. Worst comes to worst, a GM ruling could be that it's a minutely different dimensional version of PF so things work slightly different. Anyway, the folks I play with are pretty chill and see the bright side of that approach - they can try pretty wacky new stuff to see if it works without usually worrying that they will be deemed too far from canon. Roleplaying is a two-way street.

It seems to be more a question of "what kind of game do the players and GM want" rather than "what is the hard and fast imutiable rules"
If you want a game where the PF world has guns and bombs and whatever... then allow it.
if you DON'T WANT a game like that... then don't allow it.

If you want a classical fantasy game and someone else wants steam punk and someone else wants a game of slaughter the primitives and a fourth person wants a game of primitives deciphering alien tech... then SOMEBODY is going to be unhappy.

May I suggest a session 0 to decide what everyone wants?