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Yes, just a simple question. Do you allow orcs to become T-Men?

They aren't listed as one of the eligible species in the books.
If done in a home game I don't think it would prove problematic.

I'm 90% certain I saw an orc T-man in one of the Merc books.

Urlik Blackband
- Ogre Tattooed Man

Rifts Mercenaries

Page 81 to 82

darthauthor wrote:I'm 90% certain I saw an orc T-man in one of the Merc books.

Urlik Blackband
- Ogre Tattooed Man

Rifts Mercenaries

Page 81 to 82

Well, the reason I asked is because they have skin like human skin. So they can get tattooed normally.

darthauthor wrote:I'm 90% certain I saw an orc T-man in one of the Merc books.

Urlik Blackband
- Ogre Tattooed Man

Rifts Mercenaries

Page 81 to 82

I'm 100% certain that's an ogre, not an orc.
Anyway, they don't seem to be listed as an eligible race for magical tattoos, for whatever reason.

EltonRobb wrote:Yes, just a simple question. Do you allow orcs to become T-Men?

Most orc T-men are made into T-men because they are slaves.

So are you talking about a player character that is an orc and is contemplating their char become a T-man during gameplay? or are you talking the a player wanting making Orc T-man in character creation?

Whether I would allow a oce t-man into a rifts game I was GMing? sure. Though I would require the player to have both (or access to w/o using mine) the RCB1 (org. or r) [for the orc race stats] and all the books that have the tattoos they want are listed in it/them.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

EltonRobb wrote:Yes, just a simple question. Do you allow orcs to become T-Men?

Most orc T-men are made into T-men because they are slaves.

So are you talking about a player character that is an orc and is contemplating their char become a T-man during gameplay? or are you talking the a player wanting making Orc T-man in character creation?

Whether I would allow a oce t-man into a rifts game I was GMing? sure. Though I would require the player to have both (or access to w/o using mine) the RCB1 (org. or r) [for the orc race stats] and all the books that have the tattoos they want are listed in it/them.

While I was asking for ideas of an Atlantis campaign on the Savage Rifts boards (Pinnacle Entertainment's one), one of the posters came up with the idea that the PCs were escaped slaves. One of my players will want to play an orc. Most likely. If I go with the escaped slave campaign idea, he would probably make an orc T-Man.

While I could work with the escaped slave idea for a Campaign, I would have to bend the rules for him if we do it.

Maybe the first quest it to intercept a slaver raid and one of the people the group saves, from the other side, is the player's character.

A way out thought for 'rifts only' players...
(but probably a normal thought about char creation for me)
...what if the char is really a Nightbane with an orc morphus, but somewhere in the past the char forgot, amnesia of some-sort, that they have their facade form. Thinking they are what their morphus looks like, an orc. And the char thinks he/she has to touch a tattoo on their body to activate their talents.

P.S. ...eerr...ahh...huuumm... only possible is using the PB system though.

Elves are the outlier in tattoo magic; Chiang-ku created it, and the other races that can get it are all humans.

Humans are humans.
True Atlanteans are humans benefiting from generations of genetic and magical manipulation.
Ogres are a subspecies of humans of unknown origin (though I think I had a neat idea)

Orcs, though, are some sort of debased faerie creature (I suspect a Hairy Jack). They're not human. You might be able to craft a backstory to make a orc T-Man (Chiang-ku tattoo master who created tattoos just for orcs, human cursed into orcish form, Chiang-ku who lives as an orc), but as written, orcs aren't human, so they can't use it.

From what I remember it is Humans, Orcs, and Elves that can get the normal type of PB magic tattoos. My Atlantis book is packed away, So I can't reference it ATM.

P.S.: was there a ninja update in the newer printings to omit orcs? or were orc omitted from the savage world rifts?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:From what I remember it is Humans, Orcs, and Elves that can get the normal type of PB magic tattoos. My Atlantis book is packed away, So I can't reference it ATM.

P.S.: was there a ninja update in the newer printings to omit orcs? or were orc omitted from the savage world rifts?

Ogres, not orcs.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:From what I remember it is Humans, Orcs, and Elves that can get the normal type of PB magic tattoos. My Atlantis book is packed away, So I can't reference it ATM.

P.S.: was there a ninja update in the newer printings to omit orcs? or were orc omitted from the savage world rifts?

From what I understand is that it's humans, ogres, and elves in the original printing. My Atlantis book is packed away, so I can't reference it either. I picked up a .pdf copy recently, though. I wanted to add orcs to the list that can be tattooed in my home game. I already got the "official" word on it.

I even asked on the Savage Worlds Rifts boards. Got the "official" word on that too.

The Problem is one of my players will want to play an orc. If I do the escaped slave campaign idea, he'll want to make a T-Man.

I say go for it, sounds fun. Orcs and tattoos just seem like a natural fit. However, similar to elves, I would hobble the orc with tattoos having half the effect and random roll one insanity per power tattoo.

Grazzik wrote:I say go for it, sounds fun. Orcs and tattoos just seem like a natural fit. However, similar to elves, I would hobble the orc with tattoos having half the effect and random roll one insanity per power tattoo.

Thank you for the vote of confidence! It's appreciated!

The question, to me, is if Lemurians are sufficiently modified from baseline humanity so as to not be eligible for tattoos. Same question, but for Star and Earth Children, or D-Shifters.

No, by the rules orcs cannot receive these kinds of magic tattoos. The books state that the tattoos only work on humans (including Atlanteans), ogres, elves, and Chiang-Ku.
Can you changes those rules? Sure.
If I allowed any other races to have magic tattoos, I would definitely apply penalties like those for elves.

@ Curbludgeon - good question. Not sure where to draw the line! I guess take it on a case-by-case basis, and probably in some cases allowing it but adding the elf tattoo penalties.

EltonRobb wrote:

darthauthor wrote:I'm 90% certain I saw an orc T-man in one of the Merc books.

Urlik Blackband
- Ogre Tattooed Man

Rifts Mercenaries

Page 81 to 82

Well, the reason I asked is because they have skin like human skin. So they can get tattooed normally.

We can tattoo bunny rabbits.
Putting ink into the flesh isn't the issue when it comes to the restrictions on who can get this specific kind of magical tattoo.

Soldier of Od wrote:No, by the rules orcs cannot receive these kinds of magic tattoos. The books state that the tattoos only work on humans (including Atlanteans), ogres, elves, and Chiang-Ku.
Can you changes those rules? Sure.
If I allowed any other races to have magic tattoos, I would definitely apply penalties like those for elves.

@ Curbludgeon - good question. Not sure where to draw the line! I guess take it on a case-by-case basis, and probably in some cases allowing it but adding the elf tattoo penalties.

By the way, these rules have always been WEIRD!


There's a race of dragons who created a tattooing process that only works on their own race and a specific kind of hairless ape (aka humans).

That's like humans inventing cyber implants or other technology that is only compatible with a) Humans, and b) Geckos.

Even weirder: tattoos prevent their users from being transformed by any means. However, Chiang-Ku are master shape-shifters who use tattoo magic. Do their tattoos get hidden with their shape-shifting?

Also weird: Chiang-Ku have some bizarre inhibition against using tattoo magic in Palladium Fantasy, an inhibition that makes zero sense as explained in Dragons $ Gods. I think it's there mostly because Kevin just doesn't want tattoo magic in that world. Unless it's the Danzi magic tattoos, which are also weird.

Hotrod wrote:Even weirder: tattoos prevent their users from being transformed by any means. However, Chiang-Ku are master shape-shifters who use tattoo magic. Do their tattoos get hidden with their shape-shifting?

Also weird: Chiang-Ku have some bizarre inhibition against using tattoo magic in Palladium Fantasy, an inhibition that makes zero sense as explained in Dragons $ Gods. I think it's there mostly because Kevin just doesn't want tattoo magic in that world. Unless it's the Danzi magic tattoos, which are also weird.

The immunity to Transformation is a racial ability of True Atlanteans that they instilled in themselves with DNA modification (See Dimension Book 15). It has nothing to do with tattoos and T-Men may be transformed freely. You may have been looking at the Undead Slayer, but note that that class, as written, is only available to True Atlanteans, and just copy pastes all the True Atlantean racial abilities to the class so you don't have to flip back and forth while making one.

Also note that none of the other T-man O.C.C.'s list any immunity to transformation.

Killer Cyborg wrote:By the way, these rules have always been WEIRD!


There's a race of dragons who created a tattooing process that only works on their own race and a specific kind of hairless ape (aka humans).

That's like humans inventing cyber implants or other technology that is only compatible with a) Humans, and b) Geckos.

Very true - I always thought it was weird too. I get a "spell" that works only on humans and their relations, but why only humans and this one dragon? And randomly elves for some reason.

The dragon species created the magic, with the intent of using it on humans whom would become the subsequently magically modified Atlanteans (much like the elixir of power and deceit, or whatever it's called), and since for Atlantis the cruelty is the point the book throws in a people for whom it's deleterious.

The "optional" 3 Rifter article series on Atlantis had a modified slave species held by the Sunaj whom could receive tattoos, one of which was commonly a tattoo which counts as 6 tattoos but has no other effect. I like a couple of things from those articles, such as the sorta-cheesy Dilettante, but having looked up some old posts by the author my impression is a bit soured.

Okay, thanks everyone. But in the end it is my game.

I know I got the official word on it. From a lot of different people. However, that still doesn't change the fact that one of my players will want to play an orc in my home game.

Okay, thanks everyone. But in the end it is my game.

I know I got the official word on it. From a lot of different people. However, that still doesn't change the fact that one of my players will want to play an orc in my home game.

EltonRobb wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:58 pm
From what I understand is that it's humans, ogres, and elves in the original printing.

Okay two races that start with 'O'.

You might look into the Danzi magic tattoos. There are some honorability requirements.
Then there are the Native American 'tattoo's also. (another book that is ether packed away or sold off.)

drewkitty ~..~ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:18 pm

EltonRobb wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:58 pm
From what I understand is that it's humans, ogres, and elves in the original printing.

Okay two races that start with 'O'.

You might look into the Danzi magic tattoos. There are some honorability requirements.
Then there are the Native American 'tattoo's also. (another book that is ether packed away or sold off.)

Other options come to mind that could duplicate the feel of using Magic Tattoos:
-Nazcan Line Magic (WB9: SA2), and it is an OCC so in theory an Orc could take it (Orcs aren't specifically identified as being part of the Inca Empire AFAIK, but the generically D-Bees make up 28% of the population)
-Japan also has a Magic Tattoo (only one option, and it's from the Yakuza. IIRC a Rifter #? might have expanded options, but I don't recall which one it might be if at all). Probably the most limited option on the list
-a bit outside of the box thinking, but a Mystic OCC with an insanity of Power by Association (like that can afflict Crazies) could associate his/her spell casting with tattoos they receive (just link specific spell to specific tattoo, obviously use the spells and not T-magic). Doesn't apply to RAW Orcs (they can only be Witch or Priest as far as Magic)
-another outside the box thinking, but have them be an available magic OCC (Priest/Witch in this case, others races as appropriate) but they have a spell casting focus that manifest via their tattoos (similar to TW's spell casting)

EDIT: Regarding Japan Tattoo in the Rifter it is Rifter #29, but it appears that while there are now additional options for the Yakuza tattoos, you are still restricted to just one.

Hmm. Okay, that might be some good options.

There’s also diabolism from Palladium Fantasy. A permanence ward sewn on the skin with just about any kind of magic empowerment provides that poster permanently to the wearer. The permanence wars eventually fuses with the skin, making it kind of like a tattoo. This could be more powerful than standard magic tattoos, depending on the magic effect.

Ah. Yeah. Hmm.

Hotrod wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:50 pm Even weirder: tattoos prevent their users from being transformed by any means. However, Chiang-Ku are master shape-shifters who use tattoo magic. Do their tattoos get hidden with their shape-shifting?

Also weird: Chiang-Ku have some bizarre inhibition against using tattoo magic in Palladium Fantasy, an inhibition that makes zero sense as explained in Dragons $ Gods. I think it's there mostly because Kevin just doesn't want tattoo magic in that world. Unless it's the Danzi magic tattoos, which are also weird.

Tattoos do not prevent transformation. You are thinking of Atlantans. They cannot be transformed because they are Atlanteans not because they have tattoos.

Mlp7029 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 5:20 pm

Hotrod wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:50 pm Even weirder: tattoos prevent their users from being transformed by any means. However, Chiang-Ku are master shape-shifters who use tattoo magic. Do their tattoos get hidden with their shape-shifting?

Also weird: Chiang-Ku have some bizarre inhibition against using tattoo magic in Palladium Fantasy, an inhibition that makes zero sense as explained in Dragons $ Gods. I think it's there mostly because Kevin just doesn't want tattoo magic in that world. Unless it's the Danzi magic tattoos, which are also weird.

Tattoos do not prevent transformation. You are thinking of Atlantans. They cannot be transformed because they are Atlanteans not because they have tattoos.

You're quite right. My mistake.

Killer Cyborg wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:03 pm By the way, these rules have always been WEIRD!

There's a race of dragons who created a tattooing process that only works on their own race and a specific kind of hairless ape (aka humans).

That's like humans inventing cyber implants or other technology that is only compatible with a) Humans, and b) Geckos.

I personally look at it from the 'dragon' aspect of Chaing-ku. They are usually solitary, so they need a way to make servants / slaves / companions (whatever you want to call them) strong enough to tackle things they might be encountering. Having SDC servants (squishies) just won't cut it. So they have the elixir to temporarily make them tougher and tattoos to permanently make them tougher.

Why make the magic restrictive? Limiting your servant stock? Because they knew full well someone would learn to copy their ability (yes, Sploogy I am looking at you - the Steve Jobs of the magic world) , so made sure it would not work on even stronger Sploogy slave stock and 'other' dragon types.

But that is just my take.

On the original post - yes rules as written tattoos only work on the listed races / creatures but also yes it is your game - an orc tattoo warrior is not really any tougher (certainly not game breaking tougher) than a human tattoo warrior. I am always of the player enjoyment as long as it is within reason vote.

Have fun