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So discussion elsewhere.
RUE page 189 says "Non-Living Objects do not get saves".
Seems simple enough.
But then we get the optional Robot RCC.

Do these really not get saves?
as I read it...
all type 3 do not
all type 4 start with out but some become alive and get them.

Basically...
are non-living characters objects?
if not what is the line between "object" and "not object"

This reminds me of a few other games.

Recently played the sim game Stellaris.
Robot character died of old age.
A ROBOT died of old AGE!

Star Wars has droid characters.
Jedi Mind Tricks and what not are not supposed to work on them.
They don't get force points for dice roll boosts.
Yet they are playable characters.
On the plus side they are never supposed to need to eat, sleep, get tired or sick.
Then there is the whole thing about inhibitory chips. So does my droid get to shoot a guy or not.

So, the way I usually operate about it as a GM is, if it is the player character or the characters prized possession (lightsaber, etc.), they get a save.
It is not consistent.
Its a game.
That's why.

Sort of Rule 1:
Have FUN (unless the player is bullying the other players).

Rule 2:
Play fair.

Most playes don't seem to mind much when it is unfair for the villians or NPCs only themselves and perhaps fellow group members.

eliakon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:31 pm ...snip
Basically...
are non-living characters objects?
if not what is the line between "object" and "not object"

mundane ones...yes.
sn ones...no

So this means robot chars don't get a saving throw vs magic. (note: read up on the telemachanics rules)
but it means vampires and zombies do get a saving throw vs magic.
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Another way of looking at it, for house rules, is that ALL PCs and NPCs get a saving throw because they as characters.
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As to robot characters expiring of old age.....unless the character can transfer into a new housing (computer brain and other new body parts) then they are going to wear out. just as biologics do. Just at different rates as flesh and blood people.

The way I rule it players do not count as "objects" and entity that moves and is capable of interaction is considered an "active object", an active object is treated similarly to that of a NPC and are by all extensive purposes treated as one by the rules. However, if you want to play a bit rough, you can make them roll a flat save, or simply have them resist it with a negative modifier. Either way, it feels fairer, and makes some races less of an end all be all for player options.

eliakon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:31 pm So discussion elsewhere.
RUE page 189 says "Non-Living Objects do not get saves".
Seems simple enough.
But then we get the optional Robot RCC.

Do these really not get saves?
as I read it...
all type 3 do not
all type 4 start with out but some become alive and get them.

Basically...
are non-living characters objects?
if not what is the line between "object" and "not object"

I think for player purposes the Robot RCC would get to roll for a save, but that does not mean they get any bonuses (flat roll) though it could also feature components that could offer some protection for a bonus (this isn't without precedent, there are examples of objects that seem to act as a "mind block" for non-living objects, for example you can't learn the truth about the Sunji ((sp?)) in WB2 by object reading their armor).

I get that there is a desire to grant a robot a saving throw.
But I am trying to parse out what the RAW, not what the R0 fix is.
RAW it seems to me that unless your a type4 Robot that has "become alive" as some are said to do... your not alive.
And as a not-alive thing your a non-livining object and don't get a save...
...which would help explain the Skelebot Graveyards and the like.


The question of if undead are "non-living" is rather subtly different. I tend to think that, for a rules purpose they are "effectively alive" as we know that many of them have spirits of some sort (or are a spirit). We see this with Vampires, but we are told in several other cases stuff like "binding the spirit to the body" or the like. Having a spirit/soul would to me make a solid case for being classed as "its life Jim, but not as we know it".

Basically it comes down to 'no soul, no save', and 'has soul, has save'.