which of the Mind Walk (Meng Qiao) Zenjoriki rules apply to Chi Spirits in general? Spd/Coma/etc

[Plane]

This technique is described on page 124 of N&SS and has new material on 161-162 of Mystic China.

Given that I can't find basic rules for how chi spirits operate, I'm inclined to lean on this power for guidelines, yet cannot do so absolutely because of contradictions.

For example the basic idea of "how can I damage/kill a chi spirit" would have to be explored - these are creatures with 0 hit points so the standard idea of falling into a coma at zero hit points (N&SS pg 14) probably doesn't apply here, or these creatures would just be permanently comatose since they lack even one hit point (you need to be at least 1 hit point above zero to exit a coma).

That's why I figure they must operate (having no other rules to lean upon) like someone using Mind Walk, where standard hit point rules for coma/survival do not apply, and instead chi is used as a replacement for dictating your survival.

PE doesn't seem to matter with Chi (ie a percent chance to survive comas, how many negative HP you can survive before automatic death) since the rule is just "zero Chi, it is dead, with no hope of any recovery" which probably explains why many spirits would fear confrontation since that seems very easy to achieve.

4 ways to damage are mentioned in the main book (though the 2nd doesn't make sense - Soft Chi is non-damaging): "Hardened Chi, Soft Chi, Negative Chi Attacks, or One Finger Chi attacks directed against the Chi spirit, will do damage directly to Chi." which are found on page 120 (hardened chi adds 2 dmg per chi on a successful physical strike - this can be parried) and page 118 (only usable against positive chi creatures, wipes out chi directly, 3d per 1 unblocked, there's no roll to strike but you can spend positive chi to counter it) and page 120.

Pg 166 of N&SS also has a similar note (excluding soft chi) about these abilities being able to target creatures who are intangible or invulnerable from super powers. These are described as "pure chi attacks" even though Hard Chi is a rider for physical attacks - so it likely means (like with chi creatures) that only the bonus damage will hurt these things, and not the base strength-based physical contact per usual.

Page 114 describes One Finger Chi as a "force bolt" and emphasizes "evil alignments only". I missed this since page 120 never mentioned it. I would theorize that was softened by the time of Mystic China since pg 58 has all the negative chi powers available to Reformed Demons with no note about not using them, unlike "Torment" immediately before, which DOES have such a note... and pg 57 mentions they can be unprincipled/anarchist (ie selfish, not evil)

120's One Finger Chi (aka Negative Empty Chi) has a better chi>damage ratio than Hard Chi (1:3 instead of 1:2) and can be done at a distance (30ft instead of melee) plus it cannot be parried (only roll with impact works). The drawbacks are it is may be less accurate (only a +3, no other bonuses to strike apply) and doesn't benefit from modifiers like critical hit or death blow. It also uses the entirety of your melee attacks, so the rate of fire is horrible. Generally if you are going after chi creatures, if you have a lot of melee attacks, high PP (or other combat bonuses to strike) and can move quickly into melee range with them, bursting punches enhanced with Hard Chi is a more reliable way to hurt them rather than putting all your eggs in the basket of OFC/NEC

Some chi creatures seem to suffer drawbacks that do not impact a normal mind walker. Someone who mind walks full of negative chi can in theory do so risk-free in a flow of positive chi, but this doesn't apply to a reformed demon whose "Pure Negative Chi Form" (3rd magical transformation note on pg 57) mentions this vulnerability. An inverse vulnerability is mentioned on pg 55 for the Fox Spirit (Hu Ching) who, unlike a normal human mind-walker, can't just lurk in a flow of negative chi risk- free : they get attacked by it each melee round too.

Fox Spirits at least could probably mount the "spend 1 to get 1d6 to counteract the flow" defense. I don't know if that is possible for reformed demons. we don't actually have rules on how that works, like if it's a "1 destroys 3d6" like when positive chi get attacked by negative chi (where you can mount an auto-defense gamble?) or if it's something different like a 1-to-1 ratio without a defense.

Given how this operates for the similar Damned Immortal (pg 125: "If the Damned Immortal enters a Positive Chi area while in a state of Pure Negative Chi, the normal flow of Positive Chi will automatically Chi Attack the Immortal at a rate of 3D6 points of damage to Negative Chi forevery point of Chi flow in the area") it seems like the 1:3D6 ratio is the right policy, but unlike negative-attacking-positive I don't think this necessarily means you can actually mount a defense against it other than getting out of the area.

Chi spirits are normally limited to drifting (spd 2) or teleportation (takes a minute of concentration) but foxes/reformeds have a third way of fast movement:
"Pure Positive Chi entities can move at great speed along the routes of natural Positive Chi in the earth, air and water."
"the Pure Negative Chi Form can drift through the flow of Chi"

Page 82 of Mystic China has a spell called "Fly with Stream of Chi" which seems to match this concept, so given the lack of mechanics it seems like the simplest policy would be to act like infernals (in negative chi) and foxes (in positive chi) have a permanent version of this spell in effect whenever they enter pure chi form. This gives the "Spd equals chi flow" policy. This probably also means fox spirits move around much faster than demons since positive chi movement is tripled, plus they could also use things like Body Chi to buff their Spd attribute, which may include this?

As far as I know this is not an option for normal mind walkers or other spirits though - only these two RCCs because it explicitly states they can do something along those likes (not explicitly FWSOC but what other stats could be use?)

We are told the eight attributes "don't really apply" to the Wandering Infernals on pg 134 - it's hard to believe (surely IQ applies to everyone?) but in terms of Spd then I guess it would have to be the default floating Spd of 2. Bodiless spirits could obviously move around faster by possessing a body. I don't know if they'd have good enough memories to do things like teleporting to places they remembered being previously.

I don't think Infernal Servitors (even though they are "Hit Points: None") count as pure negative chi creatures. This leaves the question as to how you deal with them - depleting SDC or depleting Chi. Maybe either works? Or perhaps the Snakes/Dogs/Monkeys/Pigeons/Leopards just work like robotic constructs where depleting SDC is enough to deactivate them?

Centipedes seem to be different though, since they actually do have hit points in addition to their SDC, so rather than automatic destruction at zero I could see allowing them to survive zero/negative hit points per standard coma rules.

This does raise the interesting question of how these creatures regain SDC they lose in combat. They are full of negative chi (not positive chi) so it doesn't seem right to assume their SDC would recover at the usual rate of 5 per hour (N&SS pg 15) unless we consider them to operate according to some inversion of the usual rules, like only healing with minimum 1 point of negative chi, unable to heal if infected with positive chi?

Pg 16's rules for this could be assumed to be written with the intent of human players, with inversions expects for supernatural RCCs. We know for example that some being explicitly bio-regenerate at fast rates (like vampires in Palladium/Rifts) while we expect them to be negative chi creatures.

Even without taking damage, pg 16 has rules like "Every week at zero or negative Chi, the character must roll to save against illness" which would just gradually kill all infernal servitors if standard rules applied to them - so I would just assume they did not.

Pg 16 does after all preface the section with "all living beings" and vampires and infernal servitors are arguably not "living" so we wouldn't expect them to make weekly illness saves to avoid losing SDC and HP.

MC pg 143's description of Infernal Demons is a bit different than Reformed Demons since it only mentions taking on a demonic form or 'other form' (human, animal, or inanimate - not just human like a reformed). It doesn't talk about them being able to "drift with the flow of chi" like a Reformed (ie the Fly with Stream spell - probably) but we could probably assume they're able to do that? Or else they're normally locked at spd 2 w/ teleportation options like a normal mind walker?

Infernals have a Spd of 3D6+5 which I assume is for the "other forms" since they get a +6 bonus to this in their Demonic Form. I don't know if this or the default Spd of 2 is what applies to their movement in pure negative chi form.

Reading further into the Infernals leads me to question my assumptions though: the 7th of twelve possible "special powers" is "teleport at will" - so if they could already teleport by becoming negative chi, what would this add? All I can figure is the "at will" aspect means the benefit is that it takes less time, like maybe just 1 melee action to teleport instead of a full minute?