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So I am referring to the innvocation Spell

I found it in the Book of Magic Page 96
5 P.P.E.

• function normally without air

• does not protect the character from magic toxins or other types of magic

So to be certain and clear,
"Can a player character use this spell for the effect of Environmental Body Armor properties?"

Yes, you can use it for the "effect" related to EBA's air supply feature, but not radiation shielding or temperature management or other life support features. It is more like a SCUBA mask & air tank or a firefighter's mask and air tank than outright EBA given all the life support features the spell IS NOT mimicking.

I agree. This spell just does the one thing - allows someone to function normally without air. EBA does a host of things that are quite different.

I have allowed the spell "Breathe Without Air" to substitute

for CPR

AND

a tracheotomy (medical term for a hole in the throat to breathe through)

One guys was buried alive and this spell saved him.

Tracheotomy and buried alive makes sense. But with CPR isn't the issue that their lungs aren't working rather than the fact that they can't get access to oxygen?

darthauthor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:27 am I have allowed the spell "Breathe Without Air" to substitute

for CPR

AND

a tracheotomy (medical term for a hole in the throat to breathe through)

One guys was buried alive and this spell saved him.

Yes, the spell would be a valid substitute for these where the issue is breathing air. To state the obvious, it wouldn't be of use where CPR is to sustain the heartbeat or a trach due to an allergic reaction with other acute symptoms.

However, keep in mind that even though one can function while under the spell without air, there would be no way of being able to smell which is a function of breathed air carrying odor molecules into one's nose. Might be handy at a baked bean festival!

Grazzik wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:47 pmHowever, keep in mind that even though one can function while under the spell without air, there would be no way of being able to smell which is a function of breathed air carrying odor molecules into one's nose. Might be handy at a baked bean festival!

All jokes aside, that is an interesting point.

Might it not then be useful to allow someone to circumvent an opponent with mind-controlling pheromones?

darthauthor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:27 am I have allowed the spell "Breathe Without Air" to substitute

for CPR

AND

a tracheotomy (medical term for a hole in the throat to breathe through)

One guys was buried alive and this spell saved him.

I have to agree with the others that Bw/oA is not a substitute for CPR. CPR consists of two "basic phases" (I am overly simplifying here) the force air into the lungs phase (characterized by giving the subject mouth to mouth) and then the pumping blood phase (characterized by the chest compressions). A case to use Bw/oA might exist for the first phase, but it won't do anything for the second (which is required).

The buried alive example is applicable I would agree with. The tracheotomy example is a gray area in that it depends on how the spell actually works beyond the listed surface description, but that will come down to individual GM choice in HOW the spell achieves its stated outcome (does it work by altering metabolisms, by metamorphosis of the lungs, by providing a magical airtank that connects to the body some where like the mouth/nose or directly to the lungs, etc)..

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:19 am The buried alive example is applicable I would agree with. The tracheotomy example is a gray area in that it depends on how the spell actually works beyond the listed surface description, but that will come down to individual GM choice in HOW the spell achieves its stated outcome (does it work by altering metabolisms, by metamorphosis of the lungs, by providing a magical airtank that connects to the body some where like the mouth/nose or directly to the lungs, etc).

I would probably let it work independent of the lungs, because that's really creative and clever. Plus, it's not like it confers some amazing power that nullifies X amount of monsters. Just a way for the magic-user to feel useful, and maybe get players thinking about other interesting, non-obvious ways to use magic.

kjd22c wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:48 am

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:19 am The buried alive example is applicable I would agree with. The tracheotomy example is a gray area in that it depends on how the spell actually works beyond the listed surface description, but that will come down to individual GM choice in HOW the spell achieves its stated outcome (does it work by altering metabolisms, by metamorphosis of the lungs, by providing a magical airtank that connects to the body some where like the mouth/nose or directly to the lungs, etc).

I would probably let it work independent of the lungs, because that's really creative and clever. Plus, it's not like it confers some amazing power that nullifies X amount of monsters. Just a way for the magic-user to feel useful, and maybe get players thinking about other interesting, non-obvious ways to use magic.

Like I said there is some "gray area" due to lack of details on how the spell works that GMs will have to fill in on their own to determine if XYZ situation can work with the spell or not.

I feel that given that:
1. The spell is almost never used in the games I am in
2. It does no damage or escape.
3. It potentially saves and life and we all want to be heroes.
4. For once a spell caster can save a life without violence.
5. It is creative.

I want to allow it.

Well, if the spell is cast on a spellcaster that needs to vocalize their magic, it may save their life but I'd argue that a side effect is that, similar to the ability to smell, without the ability to inhale/exhale, the person enchanted by this spell would not be able to cast magic for the duration. If they can cast with wands, devices, or gestures, all without vocalization, they should be fine. Still something to consider if the mage casts upon themself and expects to recast before the spell expires. Though as mentioned, there is no clear description of how it works, so GMs can rule different ways on this.

WB7 (pg63, and BoM pg201 repeats this in the Ocean Magic section) but "Notes about Magic Under Water" bullet point #2 "Humans and creatures like humans who normally use the spoken word to cast magic may find it difficult to cast spells underwater, but not impossible..." and #3 specifically "Characters who cannot speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind [...] The spoken world is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster no matter what the environment may be."

Ocean wizards also have access to some Wizard Invocations as if they were Ocean Magic which includes "Breathe Without Air" (WB7 pg63).

World Book 7 establishes that you can cast spells with a vocalized component even when you cannot make the vocalizations. Technically this is due to environment rather the spell, but I don't see why it would be any different. Though we also have the contradictory statements from Anti-Magic Containment & Restraints (specifically the Mouth wraps, gas & blindfolds on pg276 and the "Vocal Cord Neutralizer" implant on pg278) found in the Book of Magic (and likely one of the SoT books, I want to say the implant is also in Bionics SB). The Wizard Invocation Spell of "Mute" (Level 9, BoM pg130) doesn't seem to consider the impact of casting it on another mage.

One could try to rationalize the contradictions to all work together, or the GM could decide on which to give preference to...