The spell Armor of Ithan

[darthauthor]

So the Spell Armor of Ithan

Question #1:
"Can you cast the spell twice on yourself or on another twice for DOUBLE the MD protection?"

The types of situations I want to explore are when the Armor of Ithan has worn down and they need another.

I don't like the idea of the caster have to wait for the MD to wear out or to have to cancel the spell to cast another Armor of Ithan.

However, I am wondering now how many layers of Armor of Ithan can a player have.

They are only 10 P.P.E.

I am imagining a HEALER in a MMORPG Video Games only instead of healing damage they are casting Armor of Ithan.

[ShadowLogan]

Can you cast the spell twice?
Yes, you can cast it as many times and on as many people as you want provided you have sufficient PPE.

Can you cast the spell twice on the same target while the previous invocation is still in effect (ie MDC remaining)? Or put another way how many layers of magical armor can you have?
Technically nothing prevents it per say AFAIK, though a few things lead me to think you can't stack the same spell on a target while it is still in effect (unless specifically addressed in the description):
-1. while you are only considering the MDC factor here, what about how the damage reduction modifiers work (1/2 damage from magic fire/lightning/cold)? Are you doing 1/2*1/2=1/4 in a double stack or still only getting 1/2. This is for AoI specifically, but there might be other examples in a general sense to the idea of stacking that also would encounter this
-2. while AoI specifically can work with physical armor in a "stacked" fashion (either in SDC worlds or via TW granted TW goes by its own rules), it might be worth considering how the "stacked AoI" would interact with versions of itself? Stacking invisible suits might impact mobility if the suits can't share the same space, even if you could treat "stacking" as possible

The main issue seems to be with the minimal amount of MDC it provides (per level) to which I have to point out:
- The spell is a converted SDC which is technically superior (for the SDC setting) since it starts at 100SDC with +10 per level to regular armor (why it got nerfed in Rifts I don't know, 1E RT seems to have imported it w/o the PF references at 1:1, though that is pre-PPE magic system)
- The spell likely is not intended to be your primary source of protection (at least for low levels), lets also not forget that it provides "free" repairs in terms of credits/materials vs taking the damage to actual armor
- The spell only sucks in terms of MDC protection at low levels, and starting at level 3 it compares to physical armor (up to about level 10 before it starts to surpass it IINM)
- There are other armor spells that are overall better (though cost more PPE) like Armor Bizzare (Lvl 5) or Invulnerability (Lvl 7) possibly even Energy Field (Level 4, cost the same and at level 6 strength) depending on how mobile you allow it to be (or depending on how mobile the character needs to be)

[darthauthor]

-1. while you are only considering the MDC factor here, what about how the damage reduction modifiers work (1/2 damage from magic fire/lightning/cold)?

The outer most layer of Armor of Ithan must be destroyed first and it alone is still just Armor of Ithan which is still takes 1/2 damage from magic fire/lightning/cold.

2. I acknowledge that stacking 2 layers of Armor of Ithan may imped mobility but it would be a trade off of mobility for protection.

I FEEL the greater true is that the author probably never though of these questions or issues.

At first glance, as a GM, I don't have an objection to a player casting the spell again to stack or renew their Armor of Ithan that was be blown away by the next energy rifle attack.

The spell caster would be burning away P.P.E. doing it but where destruction is the alterative they might feel it is safer than a dodge roll. The caster might also be in a situation where they are sort of trapped anyway like in a trap, jail cell, Magic Net, etc.

I feel inclined to agree to the added protection the more I see the player in position of defense-less-ness and casting Armor of Ithan being the smart move.

To keep it from being abused I'd imagine that it would be best to put mobility penalities either equal to those of the MD armor they replace and increase it per layer of Armor of Ithan.
I would probably also have a layer limit at which point they become completely immobile.

What that limit should be, I don't know.

I am not sure if it should be a number of casting of The Armor of Ithan spell or the number of MD protection.

I feel like the number 220 is important because of the number of times I see it in spell as offering a resistance to which other spells have no effect

[Library Ogre]

I would have a new casting replace the old one.

Bob has 100 MDC from his Armor of Ithan, then eats a small burst of grenades for 50 MD. If he recasts Armor of Ithan, he now has 100 MDC.

If it stacks, it gets ridiculous.

If you want to get picky on precise wording, Armor of Ithan is not a skintight forcefield. It is an invisible suit of armor; in SDC settings, it has the AR of plate armor. Can you wear armor on top of your armor?

[darthauthor]

IF it work in LAYERS...

Mages with this spell, at high level, would be like Borg's or power armor level of MD.

Their only limitation would be P.P.E.
They would be indestructible near a ley line.

It would take a firing squad of concentrated energy rifle fire to penetrate their Armor of Ithan layers.

Given the pervasiveness of the Armor of Ithan spell, IF it worked in layer it would be Over Power after 4th or 5th level.

The reset rule if more balanced in restoring the Armor of Ithan to start up levels.

[ShadowLogan]

I FEEL the greater true is that the author probably never though of these questions or issues.

While possible, I think it is important to remember this spell is a conversion of an SDC spell where you START with 100 SDC, where the MDC version does not (assuming the typical 1:1 conversion usually used IINM). 100SDC in an SDC setting is nothing to sneeze at (tied for the #2 slot in the 2E PF main book physical SDC armor and I would put it at #1 given it has better AR than the #2 or #1 slot there AND is weightless, etc). I don't think the author/editor expected one to need to stack multi-casting of a spell in those situations and didn't give it a thought during the MDC conversion for Rifts (though as I said, 1E RT has a 1:1 MDC version of Armor of Ithan, but that uses casting per day model and not the PPE model).

At first glance, as a GM, I don't have an objection to a player casting the spell again to stack or renew their Armor of Ithan that was be blown away by the next energy rifle attack.

Renewing the spell though would be different than stacking the spell. When you renew the spell you would essentially reset the duration "timer" and any expendables (in this case MDC) and I don't think any would argue you can't renew (especially since you can generally cancel magic at any time).

There's also a third point that really leads me into negative territory, but couldn't find it (spell name) at the time. The 6th Level "Energize Spell" that was introduced back in WB16:FoM (original, not revised). The "Energize Spell" seems to imply that stacking is not possible normally, otherwise why would you need a specific spell designed to renew the spell once it elapses (while intended for duration elapsing, I could see it also applying to "armor" exhaustion like for AoI).

I'd also point out that the premature multi-casting like you are considering isn't as duration friendly as ES, though it is more PPE efficient (ES has its own PPE requirements plus the spell). If you cast AoI twice in the same melee, vs AoI via ES. Duration wise the ES version lasts x2 as long for a bit of extra PPE, but the questionable "stacking" only adds less than a melee round of time to the duration (in this example).

It might also be worth considering if AoI is the best protective spell the mage could be casting at low levels. PPE wise Energy Field costs the same as AoI, while providing the equivalent MDC protection of AoI at 6th Level (12th when on a Ley Line), and IIRC you can control the radius of EF (it says maximum area of effect implying you don't need to have it as big, so you could cast it as a "bubble" around just the mage or as wide as 4ft radius, the only real question here is how mobile the EF bubble is IMHO).

feel inclined to agree to the added protection the more I see the player in position of defense-less-ness and casting Armor of Ithan being the smart move.

If you allowing stacking, I would suggest you consider if this house rule only applies to AoI OR if stacking is going to be a general option for all magic. While you are focused on AoI, keep in mind that a player could try to use a different spell to stack bringing you back to the main question is how does multi-casting on a subject work.

Can you wear armor on top of your armor?

Yes you can design armor to be "worn" on top of another suit of armor. Anime has a few examples of this like the Mospeada in Mospeada (RT's Cyclone in the 3rd act), Hardsuits have their Motoslave counterparts in Bubblegum Crisis. IIRC Marvel's Ironman's Hulkbuster power armor goes on over his baseline power armor suit in the MCU. Real life armor can also be done in layers (usually different types of Armor IIRC).

That said I would agree the AoI spell isn't "designed" to be worn the above way, it might be worth considering how it determines its shape so to speak. If the spell can't determine the users shape, the spell might work fine for a Dwarf (the spell was created by a Dwarf after all), but for a Human might be to small, nor would an Elf fit, a Gnome might be a bit loose/baggy, a Rahu-man giant and a human Sumo Wrestler would be like busting out of it like the Banner's clothes after he turns into the Hulk.

Given the spells wide availability it seems likely that the suit is 1-size fits all, so it can determine the appropriate shape and such (unless of course each species and gender has their own version of the spell). That means it could overlap/map to physical characteristics of individual subjects under the influence of the spell allowing it to stack. The question then is can it stack over an existing version of itself (or even a similar suit like Armor Bizarre)? To which I think the answer is no (it would reset the spell as you suggest and how Energize Spell seems to work).