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It's 110 P.A. and the landscape both political and economic has vastly changed. Triax has decided to expand its sales and service in North America in order to bring in greater proceeds and materials. What should they be selling? Any particular model of machine? What would sell well in the current climate? Who would Triax primarily be marketing to?

Would they open up a super sales center, like Titan Robotics?

I like it.

I like the idea of consumer retail products.

Clothes & shoes

Hygene products.

Robots.

Genetically engineered seed for crops.

hover trucks.

Kitchen appliances/cooking devices.

First, what are they selling?
Second, where are they selling it?
Third, who are they selling to?

1. They are likely selling the highest value items per cubic foot or per pound (i.e., top tier robotics, energy weapons, bionics, biotek, etc.) to maximize profit given the risk and shipping limitations. Why? See my comments on shipping by sea and by air (forums/viewtopic.php?t=187232). By sea to N America from Europe is highly unlikely... Atlantis. By air, which is more secure given speed and altitude, total cargo is limited by the capacity of the aircraft fleet used.

Certainly not enough capacity to meet the demand of millions of CS, FQ and independent consumers for normal consumer goods. If crazy enough to ship consumer goods for marginal profit, rest assured the pilot is probably insane, the plane is disposable / kept together by shoestring, and probably no defenses beyond smoke and chaff to distract any threat as they try to escape an encounter.

2. Given Triax/NGR policies and geopolitics (see Triax 2) most likely focused on CS and FQ state industry - the only folks who could probably afford the cost of shipping (incl security in transit, cargo and freight insurance coverage). So, not generally available except via government sources. Possible reciprocity cross-trade arrangement with NG... most likely to get access to intellectual property / corporate espionage. There may be a showcase storefront in Ishpeming hosted by NG just for the exotic factor to draw in the buyers who will likely pick up the more cost effective domestic brand.

If Triax gear is sold elsewhere, it is probably "refurbished", smuggled, second hand, or a special commission. Most state authorities would not allow export to independent regions where dangerous goods may be turned on their own forces.

3. Anyone willing to cover the high expense of secure shipping - most likely state actors or industrialists. The rare uber-rich might have Triax curios as a symbol of status and privilege. Any military gear would likely require permits, so can't just walk in and buy a suit of Power Amor without state authorization. Anyway, the average merc would have too much cost discipline to buy imports given the cost of repairs/replacements.

I figure that using one of the Earth Lifter transports it should be fairly routine to transport bulk goods to anywhere in America. It can fly up to 600 mph up to 40,000 ft. The best that the Splugorth/Kittani have, the flying fox armor has an effective flight ceiling of 20,000ft, which makes it no real threat at all if it even could find the transport during travel. The Earth Lifter can also carry 190,000 TONS of cargo, or 72-96 power armor troops,
and 12-20 robot vehicles easily. That's a lot of metal. You could probably cram even more in if you got rid of the 144 kitted out troopers its supposed to carry at the same time. Or you could fill that space with tons and tons of weapons, armor, equipment, drop pods, Robot soldiers, etc.

As for what models Triax would sell, I think they would sell the Black Knights, the Bug and possibly the Jaeger. No robots or power armor with the advanced abilities or missiles (no Dynamax. Glitterboy or Super Trooper, etc).

I would argue that the Jaeger would hit public release because;
1. The Americas would jump at the units intrinsic capabilities over some other manufacturers.
2. The Triax reputation for reliability and dependability.
3. The price. It is competitively priced compared to other models of a similar class.
4. The Jaeger's size. It is easy to transport, repair and conceal. Any barn, small cave/mine or dense woods can conceal the unit easily.
5. Stock. Triax and the NGR have MILLIONS of these and make more every day. They could easily sell thousands and never make a real dent, all the ehile gaining credits, resources and whatever it is that the NGR needs.

The NGR has entire factories that do nothing but churn out Terrain Hoppers, X-10 Predators, Foragers, Hunter/Jaegers and the X-622 Bug.

With the destruction of Poland's cities, the NGR is probably looking for Material sources (heavy metals, rare earths, common earths, etc). They have food and stockpiles of equipment, especially after moving to a total war footing in 109 P.A.
Every power armor, infantry weapon and robot out in the field putting demons in the ground is one less that the Coalition has to build themselves. They need all the help they can get.

The CS needs food and manufacturing machine parts to restart several of their own production lines. The NGR could help with that, or even supply Silver, which is also a current shortage. 190,000 tons of MREs can go a LONG way.....

slade2501 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 1:12 pm I figure that using one of the Earth Lifter transports it should be fairly routine to transport bulk goods to anywhere in America. It can fly up to 600 mph up to 40,000 ft. The best that the Splugorth/Kittani have, the flying fox armor has an effective flight ceiling of 20,000ft, which makes it no real threat at all if it even could find the transport during travel. The Earth Lifter can also carry 190,000 TONS of cargo, or 72-96 power armor troops,
and 12-20 robot vehicles easily. That's a lot of metal. You could probably cram even more in if you got rid of the 144 kitted out troopers its supposed to carry at the same time. Or you could fill that space with tons and tons of weapons, armor, equipment, drop pods, Robot soldiers, etc.

I do not disagree with your analysis about what Triax would do, but...

The one thing I cannot accept is the absolute ridiculousness of the stats in the book of a payload of 190K tons in a 300ft long flying vehicle! Gah, what were the writers thinking!!!

Let's consider: the CS Sky Lifter is roughly the same size but moves slightly slower and can only get up to 6000ft. 40000ft is a bit hard to swallow for a hovercraft, but I can accept, through liberal doses of handwavium, that there is an increased prevalence of Golden Age tech in Germany that improves the performance of their flight systems.

However, the 190K tons is beyond the suspension of disbelief that usually comes with sci-fi. If used as a troop transport for the heaviest of vehicles and troops with reasonable supplies and gear, it may top out at about 4000 tons. If you maths out the volume of storage required for the military payload, the storage volume is only about approx 14% of the vehicle's volume, which I generously round up to 30%. That means with only ~500k cuft of storage space for cargo replacing the passengers and war machines, the weight of cargo per cuft to amount to 190K tons would have to be 836 lbs/cuft, heavier than lead and more like mercury. Certainly not food, weapons, robots, or anything not made completely solid from the heaviest of metals. It might be argued that the payload could be suspended below the craft, but may I point out the massive thrusters on the bottom that would destroy any cargo suspended beneath them.

So, without accepting the ludicrous stats of the Earth Lifter, there would be no way to transport such a quantity of goods in a 300ft long vehicle.

It is pretty nuts, but then a C-130 Hercules plane is 97 ft long and can carry 44,000 pounds. if we triple that, its just under 300ft and carrying 150,000 pounds. Remove fuel weight cause of the nuclear power and increase power/weight ratio accordingly, and 190,000 pounds would be in line.

but 190,000 TONS is kinda crazy indeed.

But then again, here we are trying to do math about a game with dragons, demons and zombie Juicers, so I'm just gonna hand wave it and say "yeah, Triax is selling more stuff in America and their air/ocean shipping game is on point for sure."

i'd build around the XM-288 actually, since it was designed for trans-atlantic flights. 1000 tons of cargo. which while still kind absurd, is more reasonable. especially when the aircraft itself is listed as weighing 1000 tons unloaded.
of course it is 500ft long and 150ft wide, making it 3x longer than a B-36 (or twice as long as a B-36 was wide! given the B-36's 230ft wingspan), as well as about 10x heavier.
or if we want to compare it to the An-225 Mriya, which until it was destroyed two years ago, was the largest plane ever.. 1.8x as long, with half the wingspan, massing 3.5 times as much empty, and can carry nearly 5x the payload.

though the lack of VTOL on the XM-288 would be a problem.

and yeah the earth lifter is absurd. it ought to have a cargo capacity closer to that of the Deaths Head transport, which is of similar size and performance. while we don't get specific tonnage, adding up the mass of stuff it carries normally gets you only a few hundred tons.

i do suspect that there was oceanic trade going on though. the deal the NGR struck with the CS was to provide technology aid and industrial upgrades, in exchange for food and raw materials. no way that the XM-288 would be able to carry enough on its own to make a dense in the needs of the NGR's dietary or industrial needs, unless you had several hundred of them operating round the clock. and the NGR didn't build all that many. plus such aircraft really only could operate between major CS cities and the NGR, airfields big enough for such planes wouldn't be common. so the Triax products had to be getting to North America some other way prior to the treaty (and they largely stopped selling publicly after the treaty as part of the deal). so there had to be regular freighters going back and forth before the deal, hauling Triax sales items to NA, and NA goods back to europe. then after the CS-NGR trade deal you'd have CS freighters making the trip, perhaps with CS navy escort. (would honestly help explain why they invested so much into force projection platforms like the carriers. a CS carrier group would make for one heck of an escort for a convoy.) planes like the XM-288 would be for perishables that couldn't last the time needed for a freighter voyage, or high priority items.

people often forget that there is also an actual water route from the great lakes to the Atlantic ocean as well, making possible for freight ships to travel across the ocean from Europe to the great lakes chain. the CS being what they are, it makes sense that they would clear the way to Free Quebec in this manner, and that Quebec would also clear the path on their side, making sure the water locks were in operable condition and possibly charging passage tax on shipping. Either that or the ships must detour all the way down to the mouth of the Mississippi river and travel up.

Then again there could be all manner of land, sea and air transports we don't know about that aren't listed in the books as well.

It has been a long time since I read RIFTS Underseas, but I believe it talked about it being considerably more dangerous to sail cross the ocean than to fly over it.

Triax already sells their power armors to the general public in America. I don't think they would hold back on selling weapons and even robots too. The only thing they may hesitate to sell are their uranium rounds.

they should be sending manufacturing robots, after securing a sale. even their older stuff is a vast improvement for most small nations, who need the help.

after that, military gear. and after that higher-end domestic robots. not much else you're get a good return on.

oni no won wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:08 am It has been a long time since I read RIFTS Underseas, but I believe it talked about it being considerably more dangerous to sail cross the ocean than to fly over it.

Triax already sells their power armors to the general public in America. I don't think they would hold back on selling weapons and even robots too. The only thing they may hesitate to sell are their uranium rounds.

that's mostly a factor of speed.. an airplane spends a lot less time in transit, and usually can achieve fast enough speed and/or high enough altitude to be able to avoid most threats. the main limitations are range (for non-nuclear planes) and general navigation. but for the latter it wouldn't be hard for the NGR to maintain a long range radio beacon network to give a general bearing to follow. only takes a day or so tops to cross the atlantic by air, a lot less if you can do it supersonic.

ships on the surface can carry a lot more, but are a lot slower, taking multiple days of not several weeks to make the same distances. and they're more vulnerable to attack. but at the same time they can be much more heavily armed and defended. less safe, but the payoff of the ones that do get through is a lot higher. and for a group like the CS which has access to a proper navy you can convoy up around military ships for defense.

which honestly, might have been how triax was getting stuff to NA before the Cs deal.. freighters escorted by the early parts of the NGR navy. (would have been a good use of that surface cruiser from WB7.)

and yes the CS deal pretty much killed Triax's sales in NA.. the CS required that Triax cease selling to 'enemies of coalition states'. which basically means the majority of North America's 'general public' is now verbotten.