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I've looked at Titan Robotics, Northern Gun 2, MercOps and Triax 2 and everything is either overkill (such as the Hercules or Chinook) or to small (like attack helicopters and jet fighters). Also, long range and VTOL are highly desirable. Did I miss anything in those books or are there some in other books?

Triax 2 has armored hovercars. I get that they're not technically flying, but some models can fit 6 and they run on nuclear power.

MercOps has the GAW Black Hawk and Kiowa. Good passenger capacity, decent range (1400-1500 miles), but very weak structures (75-85 MD). Also very cheap (700-900k).

Using the Game Master's Guide I found only one plausible candidate:

NT-40 Viper helicopter from the Australia book. Fits a crew of 4 with up to 6 passengers. 210 MDC. 480 MPH top speed, altitude maximum is 5,000 feet. Max range is 500 miles, or unlimited if nuclear. Has decent weapons included. 3.9m cost for nuke, 1.8m for combustion engine.

There's also a Free Quebec (found in the FQ book) GBG-96 Sky Hawk, but its stats sound ridiculous compared to helicopters. It accommodates 4-9 crew, has 998 MDC body, goes 440 MPH at 6,000 feet, unlimited range, can fly 120 hours without rest/overheating (this is where it gets weird) and can carry 10 Glitter Boys or 20 regular soldiers! For 2.9m cost! And that's listed as the black market cost, which I assume already includes a big markup.

Anyway, I also found this in Arzno (WB28): TW Grinning Gunship (looks like a modified Huey helicopter). 110 MDC main body, 200 MDC force field. Max speed is 80 MPH, double on a ley line. 2-3 crew, 4-5 passengers. Includes decent weapons. With a TW generator (equivalent to nuke power, 20+ years), the cost is 4.9m. Double or triple that on the black market, which means, I guess, that you need to go to Arzno directly and buy it from the manufacturer if you don't want to get gouged.

Alternatively you can get it for 2.4m (in Arzno), if you have somebody on board who can put 25 PPE into it every 2 hours to maintain flight. For an extra 400k you can install a PPE battery that stores 200 PPE.

Thanks! I agree that the Skyhawk sounds over the top. Of the options you provided I think I like the Grinning Gunship the most and they're going to start near Arzno anyway.

Rifter11 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:13 pm Thanks! I agree that the Skyhawk sounds over the top. Of the options you provided I think I like the Grinning Gunship the most and they're going to start near Arzno anyway.

Yeah, I was leaning towards the Gunship too. Force fields are always nice, and 200 MD is fairly tough. With the PPE battery it has an effective range of 1280 miles between recharges. The only downside is the mediocre top speed.

What are they going to use it for? Just transport? Is it their mobile home/base?

Devjannz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:42 pm What are they going to use it for? Just transport? Is it their mobile home/base?

Mainly transport but if its big enough to provide shelter too that'd be a plus but don't want anything too big at the same time (like the Chinook and Hercules). It's gonna be a long trip.

Rifter11 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 8:58 pm

Devjannz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:42 pm What are they going to use it for? Just transport? Is it their mobile home/base?

Mainly transport but if its big enough to provide shelter too that'd be a plus but don't want anything too big at the same time (like the Chinook and Hercules). It's gonna be a long trip.

I see from the other thread you're going to Atlantis?

I'd use the Aquapod for that. Northern Gun 2 book. It's not that expensive, it's not rare (i.e, should be anywhere NG stuff is sold, within reason), and it can travel on land, sea, and undersea.

Moreover, it seems to have comfortable living quarters. No helicopter is going to have that.

Also, the Aquapod's description actually mentions people using it around Atlantis. The thing about flying a helicopter out to Atlantis: a freak storm could (read: should) knock a helicopter down very easily. Whereas a hovercraft/boat like the Aquapod can't be easily disabled in a storm.

plus if peopel are already using it at Atlantis, you'd have a better chance of sneaking in, because unless you've got a bunch of anti-splynncryth graffiti on the outside or something, it won't attract much notice

glitterboy2098 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:47 am plus if peopel are already using it at Atlantis, you'd have a better chance of sneaking in, because unless you've got a bunch of anti-splynncryth graffiti on the outside or something, it won't attract much notice

The cool thing about the Aquapod is that it has a mini-sub docked to it. So you could keep the mothership out to sea, and 'sneak' onto shore using the submarine.

Rifter11 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:24 pm I've looked at Titan Robotics, Northern Gun 2, MercOps and Triax 2 and everything is either overkill (such as the Hercules or Chinook) or to small (like attack helicopters and jet fighters). Also, long range and VTOL are highly desirable. Did I miss anything in those books or are there some in other books?

A. Why the limited sourcing list (aside from that's the extent of one's Rifts Library which I get)? Additional Air transports can be found in South America 1 (Columbian helicopter), Triax1 (various), CS Navy (Sea Wasp Helicopter), Underseas (NN Helicopter), CWC (CS has a transport helicopter)

B. Are there any in the books that you cold "second hand" (ie remove stuff) to give something that isn't overkill? Or maybe some other modification(s) if this is supposed to be a mobile base trade excess capacity/features for "base features".

Depending on your actual parameters and the group, would a TW Ley Line "floating" Boat work (Fed of Magic and Splyn Market have similar vehicles IIRC) found in the TW base class. It give you some control over size (boats can be found in WB7 table, or just assign numbers that work for you).

An alternate idea is to import from the Robotech line thinking specifically of the VC-33 Mom's Kitchen (if it's just set dressing it shouldn't matter much which edition you use).

The problem with the aquapod is that they're starting about a hundred miles northwest of Arzno and will travel cross country to the coast. So they'd either have to haul it (assuming you can even get one from around Arzno) or buy one once they got to the coast. An aircraft, though not without its risks, would work for both legs of the journey.

I did not mean to imply that I was limiting the search to those books. I was saying that's where I had started looking and asking where else would be good to search which Shadowlogans list being what I was looking for. While I have all of the Rifts books, I do not own any Robotech books.

Thanks for all the help guys!

There is also another option if you are looking for something stated as opposed to handwaved for plot... The Robot RCC from Source Book 1 can be used to create piloted units (technically it would qualify as an accessory unit, basically don't give it an AI or worry about AI features) which does include a small plane option (as listed there should be enough room for 8 IIRC).

Rifter11 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:30 pm The problem with the aquapod is that they're starting about a hundred miles northwest of Arzno and will travel cross country to the coast. So they'd either have to haul it (assuming you can even get one from around Arzno) or buy one once they got to the coast. An aircraft, though not without its risks, would work for both legs of the journey.

Aquapod is a hovercraft AND a boat. The mini-sub that comes with it attaches on the back of it, and thus goes wherever it goes, including over land.

Aquapod is mentioned as being popular for use around coastal Mexico, to avoid vampires, so it's really not a stretch to imagine them being available in Arzno.

MyDumpStatIsMA wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 4:50 pm

Rifter11 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:30 pm The problem with the aquapod is that they're starting about a hundred miles northwest of Arzno and will travel cross country to the coast. So they'd either have to haul it (assuming you can even get one from around Arzno) or buy one once they got to the coast. An aircraft, though not without its risks, would work for both legs of the journey.

Aquapod is a hovercraft AND a boat. The mini-sub that comes with it attaches on the back of it, and thus goes wherever it goes, including over land.

Aquapod is mentioned as being popular for use around coastal Mexico, to avoid vampires, so it's really not a stretch to imagine them being available in Arzno.

I guess that will teach me to judge a vehicle by its name, lol

Rifter11 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:36 pm I guess that will teach me to judge a vehicle by its name, lol

'Aquapod' is a little misleading, yeah. I went through the NG2 book because I remembered there were a lot of weird (in a good way, I think) designs, so I even checked the boat section. Sure enough it turned out to be one of the most affordable and adaptable transports in the game.

I even looked at my Naruni book, but that stuff is just absurdly overpriced in most cases.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions!

Rifter11 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:24 pm I've looked at Titan Robotics, Northern Gun 2, MercOps and Triax 2 and everything is either overkill (such as the Hercules or Chinook) or to small (like attack helicopters and jet fighters). Also, long range and VTOL are highly desirable. Did I miss anything in those books or are there some in other books?

Mercenaries
Golden Age Weaponsmiths
Also page 116 theres an Iron Eagle attack helicopter that has a crew of 4 and can squeeze in 2 passengers.

WB 19: Australia p. 219.
4 crew and 4 passengers.
Though 2 of the crew are door gunners and exposed.

WB 22: Free Quebec p 57
Cockpit holds 5, cargo area holds max 20 troops in EBA.
Also very large and expensive and may qualify as "overkill".

South America 1, page 34
Holds up to 10 passengers and only costs 400,000 credits.

WB 2: Atlantis p 155 Kittani ATV Hover Jet
Again large and expensive and difficult to find outside Atlantis. May be overkill.

WB 5: Triax NGR p 138
1 pilot and 6 passengers. But it only hovers five feet above ground.

And not much else. Some people on the forums already noticed this gap in vehicles. You have tons of one man fighters, many ginormous air transports, and almost no small flying APC's.
The 3 Galaxies books have more flying vehicles, but you'd need a reason why they would be on Rifts Earth. I'll go digging now and let you know what I find.

WB 36: Sovietski p. 177
Crew of 5 and cargo capacity of 16 troopers. Again very expensive and large, probably overkill.

And Phase World has the same problem. Everything in the 3 Galaxies is either way too big or way too small. You have many many one man fighters and a buttload of massive space transports.

DB 8: Naruni Wave Two on pages 76-78 have some large very expensive transports that again go beyond what a player group needs. They also probably cannot afford it at the start of the game.
In DB 13 on page 20 you have rules for building shuttlecraft but that means doing a lot of your own work and coming up with a design, and again you need a reason why they'd be on Rifts Earth.

Oh, I forgot about Techno Wizardry.

in the Main Book on page 95 they give rules for using magic to make a Sky Boat. The beauty of that is you can have any kind of vessel you like, perfect for whatever size team you wish to accommodate. Bad news is you need at least one mage with a lot of PPE willing to focus it mostly on your vehicle. A Techno Wizard in the team would be your best choice.

Also the Siege On Tolkeen books have loads of TW vehicles but again, most are way too small or large. Not much is just right for your group.

In Federation Of Magic page 122 you have a TW Skimmer that holds one pilot and up to six passengers, cramped.

OH HOT DAMN I GOT IT!
I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT!!!

Go look in Coalition War Campaign pages 172-176 and tell me what you see!!

Shorty Lickens wrote:Mercenaries
Golden Age Weaponsmiths
Also page 116 theres an Iron Eagle attack helicopter that has a crew of 4 and can squeeze in 2 passengers.

I'm aware of the Iron Eagle, but given the wording in the initial post I avoided listing any dedicated "Attack Helicopters" I found. I also avoided using hovercraft and robot vehicles for similar reasons.

Shorty Lickens wrote:n the Main Book on page 95 they give rules for using magic to make a Sky Boat.

&

Short Lickens wrote:n Federation Of Magic page 122 you have a TW Skimmer that holds one pilot and up to six passengers, cramped.

Both mentioned previously, though I skipped on the page numbers. WB21 Splyn Dimensional Market has pre-figured sky boat platforms. I would be remiss if I didn't remind you that while the TW boats run off PPE, a psychic could also stand-in with their ISP pool (potentially).

WB14 New West also has the TW Ironhorse Train (pg221-3) that can fly, but that gets back to the TW issue.

WB7 also has "quickie" stats for a variety of naval vessels on pg135-7. They aren't flying vehicles, but could be used in the TW conversion.

Short Lickens wrote:Go look in Coalition War Campaign pages 172-176 and tell me what you see!!/quote]
Liquid Fueled Helicopters (also noted previously, sorry I didn't list page numbers before on my earlier list (was going from memory more or less)

Sorry. I was dead tired and had trouble sleeping so I got up in the wee hours and posted nonsense.
By Golden Age Weaponsmiths I meant use something else and apply the rules for making a vehicle MDC. Now that I am rested and my head is on straight I am going to steal some pics from the internet and make up stats for some things. As an example, in Voyager they have the Delta Flyer, which I think would be perfect for you.

https://imgur.com/gallery/delta-flyer-t5LvcPF

Gimme some time to write up stats.

The Phase Flyer

Model Type: Galactic Federation Runabout (Model 2375).
Class: Light Shuttle
Ship's Crew: 4 total. One pilot, co-pilot, navigator, comm and tactical officer. Room for up to 6 passengers but only has sleeping quarters for 2.

M.D.C. by Location:
Interior Bulkheads per 10 feet (3 m) - 50
Interior Hatches - 15 each
Exterior Hatches - 50 each
Main Engines - 200
Hull - 300
Variable Force Field ~ 100 per side (400 total)

Speed:
Atmosphere: Sleek and aerodynamic, runabouts are very capable in atmosphere. 3,805 mph (6,088 km or Mach 5).
Sub-Light: 13,698 mph (21,917 km or Mach 18).
FTL: 1 light-year per hour.
Range: Limited only by supplies. The compressed anti-matter reactors carry enough fuel to operate the ship at full readiness
for 30 years, but shipboard stores are only good for one month of constant deployment with full crew.

Statistical Data:
Length: 49.54 feet (15.1 m).
Height: 12.27 feet (3.74 m).
Beam: 27.88 feet (8.5 m).
Mass: 102.2 metric tons.
Power System: One Altess AA-90 Anti-Matter Reactor powering two banks of three-nozzle sub-capital thrusters.
Cargo: Up to 2 tons of cargo, in addition to standard complement of stores and equipment.
Free Market Cost: 5 Million Phase World credits.

Weapon Systems:
1. Phase Cannon (1): Mounted on the nose along the center line of the ship, They are rapid-fire, high-intensity phase beams that hit light
Primary Purpose: Anti-Fighter.
Secondary Purpose: Anti-Missile.
Weight: Not applicable, part of the ship's hull.
Range: 30 miles (48 km) in space, 5 miles (8 km) in an atmosphere.
Mega-Damage: 8D6 M.D. per blast.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the gunner's number of attacks.
Payload: Effectively unlimited.
Bonus: These weapons are +4 to strike fighters and small ships.

Here's the problem, I got some of the stats from ST fan sites and I don't like all of them. The thing has a mostly hollow interior and is made from far-future technology so I dunno if it would weigh 102 tons. Also an anti-matter reactor would probably be very expensive in the 3 Galaxies and hideously expensive on Rifts Earth. You would need to figure out the MDC for every little piece and that means go over a ton of photos and assigning values. Also it probably doesn't need faster-than-light drives now that I think about it. And I just made up 5 million from nothing. You'd have to assign a cost you feel is reasonable.

You know what? Forget that piece of crap. Just take the Triax hover car and add in a better jet engine, one that brings your flight ceiling up to 5,000 or 10,000 feet and bump the sale price up. That's probably what people on Rifts earth would do anyway.
WB 5, p. 138.

Does anybody know if the MZ-10 Wilderness Crusader is better detailed in another book? Cuz it doesn't have much info in that half page entry.
And again I'd like to complain that in over 30 years of books we still don't have enough flying cars, which is weird given the setting. Not even the Dimension books have them.

And now that I look at it the Glitter Boy transport from Free Quebec is actually an extremely good bargain for how large it is. Only 2.9 million credits and it carries a full crew and 20 soldiers. Actually, looking at the stats, that thing is too cheap. Really the only downside is that being a transport it would not come with any creature comforts, but you could install those cheaply.

Shorty Lickens wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:56 pm And now that I look at it the Glitter Boy transport from Free Quebec is actually an extremely good bargain for how large it is. Only 2.9 million credits and it carries a full crew and 20 soldiers. Actually, looking at the stats, that thing is too cheap. Really the only downside is that being a transport it would not come with any creature comforts, but you could install those cheaply.

Wow! You really went above and beyond! Thanks! I like the GB Transport the best although it is a little large (acceptably so though) and it says under the price that "no knock offs are available*....But GM hand wavium takes care of that. Free Quebe is a long way from Arzno (and they're starting a hundred miles north west of there) so I think it would have to be a Black Market knock off. Perhaps from the Area 51 branch.

Shorty Lickens wrote:Does anybody know if the MZ-10 Wilderness Crusader is better detailed in another book? Cuz it doesn't have much info in that half page entry.

Not that I am aware of, Triax hardware exists in WB5, WB7, WB31, SB1o/r, SB3. SB1 is largely a C&P of WB5, though some variations exist (ie different sub-type of models), but those books deal largely with new/updated hardware (and I don't think the MZ-10 received an update in WB31).

Shorty Lickens wrote:And again I'd like to complain that in over 30 years of books we still don't have enough flying cars, which is weird given the setting. Not even the Dimension books have them.

Well what do you define as a "flying car"? Because its possible for just about any hover-vehicle in Rifts to qualify as a "flying car" (or bike). In theory as I mentioned previously one could also use the Robot RCC in SB1 to make vehicles/bots.

Shorty Lickens wrote:And now that I look at it the Glitter Boy transport from Free Quebec is actually an extremely good bargain for how large it is. Only 2.9 million credits and it carries a full crew and 20 soldiers. Actually, looking at the stats, that thing is too cheap.

Keep in mind that 2.9million is presented as the cost for FQ, not a black market or open market price. So FQ presumably has some control over how much profit the builder (if a company and not in-house) can make on it. This is hinted at with other platforms that have "Quebec's Cost" instead of Black Market Cost, an example is the USA-G10 costing Quebec 20million (15 w/o GB or Rimouski upgrade) but the BM cost is 25+ million (pg83 WB22) or the cost of the PA-06A SAMAS (pg108) being 1.6mill for them, but 2.4-3million on the BM.

I was looking for a good 'bush' plane for a bush pilot npc I was making. I settled on importing aircraft from robotech macros. The moms kitchen transport which might be a bit big but could be scaled down or the avenger jet bomber.

I settled on the avenger and opted to remove all the sensors or anti sub arms to allow for passengers (8 plus pilot and co pilot)

Edit

Sorry I see someone else mentioned robotech and you don't have book

OH CRAP! I FORGOT!

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... start=6250

Have fun searching. Maybe Killer Cyborg will help you if you ask. I sure aint diggin thru all that.

Shorty Lickens wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:36 am OH CRAP! I FORGOT!

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... start=6250

Have fun searching. Maybe Killer Cyborg will help you if you ask. I sure aint diggin thru all that.

Thanks!

Osprey II

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... r#p2176939

https://militarymachine.com/wp-content/ ... Osprey.jpg

Base unit is dirt cheap, like GAW stuff, and weapons are all optional.

Catalina

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... a#p2754189

Cheap, can land on dirt or water. NOT a hover craft though.

https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/ai ... .jpg?v=v40

Rarog

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... g#p2739251

VTOL and jet speeds.

Skimmer

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... r#p1820543

VTOL
Cheap
Optional weapons

Skyfox

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... &#p2251162

Kind of expensive. No VTOL. Many standard weapon systems.

Starfire

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... t#p1806022

Not too expensive. VTOL. Some weapons standard.

Vanstar

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... o#p1806025

Good price. Large interior could be remodeled for a decent sized flying home.

Airshark

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... k#p1803492

No more than 25 feet off the ground, and only holds a max of 6 people. Very little cargo space. Also kind of pricey.

Garman

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... r#p2684975

Hideously expensive. Can hold plenty of passengers. Max altitude 600 feet.

Kerlun

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... t#p2828269

Expensive. Max altitude 22,000 feet.

Vader

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... t#p2786238

Reasonably priced. Slow, not enclosed, no creature comforts.

Megabago

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... r#p2113171

Reasonably priced without weapons. Holds plenty of people as well as cargo storage. Highly modifiable. Hover up to 4000 feet. Can dive 200 feet but travels slowly.
I think this would be my first choice for a small group.

Ground vehicle conversions.

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... r#p3092398

This may be your best choice overall. In fact finding a facility and getting the work done could be a minor adventure all by itself.

Merlin

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... p#p2858471

Only holds 6. Reasonable price. 600 foot altitude.

Nasicorn

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... n#p3001474

Expensive. Only 4 foot hover. Can hold 10 troops as an APC or used as a comfortable transport for a small group.

Peregrine

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... r#p2067062

Only holds six. Tiny storage. Hovers to 4000 feet.

Linden

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... d#p2464118

Good candidate for adding hover pads. Dirt cheap and very capable. Lots of modules. Spacious for a small team.

Chernot

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... t#p2945607

Another good vehicle for modifying.