Create Golem Ritual's blood requirement

[ShadowLogan]

This is for both Rifts and Palladium Fantasy settings.

In Land of the Damned2 for PF, there is a Scarecrow NPC (pg184-7, end of 186 specifically) mentions "four Iron Golems he has built". Which begs the question how they could do this, AFAIK the Scarecrow race can't bleed and can't be damaged by normal weapons (in PF). So how did he provide the blood for the creation process ("a single drop of his blood on the behemoth's forehead to bring it to life"-PF2E pg213-4) if it doesn't have any blood?

That isn't the only race/creature that might not have blood where this issue could arise, at least for Rifts there are:
-Zaayr Crystal Dragons (WB12, though here I could see them breaking off a crystal bits given known text to substitute for the various gem requirements and getting a 30% more powerful Golem, yeah a case can be made for that)
-Amaki Stonemen (WB9, can learn magic)
-Obsedai Stonemen (WB30, technically not an issue sense they can't learn magic but intended as an example of a race that can't bleed so in general we know stone/crystal races exist)
-aracnids like the A'rac and Spinne (WB30, technically they have a blood substitute, but is that sufficient or would there be consequences)
-plants like the Chasseur Vert or Ganka (WB30, they can select a magic OCC, the other 2x plant races can't)
-Aliens rolled on the "Creating More Alien Races" table in DB2 pg104-8, as such a combination of Mineral/Crystal race and magic using is possible

So how did the Scarecrow in question produce those Golems?

[Library Ogre]

Had a long time to research a variant that let him get around that, would be my answer. Someone else's blood?

[Curbludgeon]

The Strata from DB 6 come to mind as well, although their description is such that they arguably could have some sort of blood equivalent. As for Golem creation, I'd contend the life drain via a sympathetic magical link is what's important, and blood is just a common link for meatbags. If there was some sort of bioengineered species which is almost all brain attached to a blood percolator, then maybe their Golems require a drop of cerebrospinal fluid instead. One of the Mechanoid varieties which, if having gone rogue, is described as interested in learning magic, perhaps.

[ShadowLogan]

I'm sure there are additional races that qualify as "where's the blood?" that I didn't list, the point is that they are out there and while some examples might get a pass because they can't practice magic others of their type can be shown to be able to.

I'm not sure that one can directly use a Jon/Jane Doe stand-in for their Blood, if that was the case one would think we'd see armies of the things being constructed instead of the paltry few (there is also the SDC cost, which I assumed is paid for by the blood donor).

I do agree something has to be done to create the mystical link to turn it on (since it exists even after creator dies, presumably even after getting hit by a Rune weapon that devours souls).

I have to wonder if the answer is a bit simpler to pull off than resorting to researching variants that don't require blood, like using a Metamorphosis spell first (technically the NPC that started this DOES have Metamorphosis: Superior and being 10th level they can be changed for 200minutes or 3-1/3hours, possibly double if both class levels count for this NPC) before the start of the Create Golem (or Zombie) Ritual so that they now have a form complete with blood.

[Curbludgeon]

I'm thinking having proxies for ritual damage sets a bit too sweeping a precedent. I could see value in being able to switch control to someone other than the golem's creator. I'd perhaps suggest it cost more permanent SDC reduction than the creation did, and there's still no reduction in the reduction to the creator.

Effects like Metamorphosis being used to simply be able to say a given body's blood is sufficiently bloody also ain't great. What's to prevent, for instance, a caster changing to something with SDC to spare? The Amaki, which I'll note in their description in SA2 both say nothing about their lacking blood and state that they find humanity similar to themselves which might suggest they have blood, could whip out potentially hundreds of golems with little in the way of downside.

The SDC reduction from the Create Golem ritual has nothing to do with actual blood loss. It's entirely symbolic, which seems like that which should be preserved. In the case of a Scarecrow creating Golems, given their vulnerability to fire I'd consider perhaps having some of their bodily straw being permanently singed.

As an aside, is there a quote anywhere about MDC beings creating Golems? While one might just have the ritual cost the same in MDC, I don't mind the notion of that sort of creation effect only being available to the squishies. If an MDC dude wants a Golem, they can traipse over to an SDC dimension to make one.

[ShadowLogan]

Effects like Metamorphosis being used to simply be able to say a given body's blood is sufficiently bloody also ain't great. What's to prevent, for instance, a caster changing to something with SDC to spare?

Metamorphosis DOES NOT alter the SDC/HP rating. The first Metamorphosis spell available is Animal (Level 7, pg117 in BoM) and it states "but retains his own ability to speak, memory, S.D.C. and Hit Points."-emphasis mine. Metamorphosis: Human (pg122 BoM, level states "retrains his own voice, memory, skills, and attributes" (doesn't directly state it, but I would take that to include SDC/HP or MDC). Meta: Insect (pg129-30 in BoM, Level 9) sticks with the Meta: Animal in terms of HP/SDC (Magic can't be done because they can't speak, so biology change). Meta: Superior (pg135 BoM) states "but does not possess any of its powers or abilities, only his own normal, human abilities (I.Q., memory, attributes, Hit Points, SD.D.C., skills, etc). Now there might be specific example cases where this is not the case, but it does appear that it isn't a way around the SDC cost when looking at it in general.

And we know being an MDC creature does not mean they don't have blood (so even if a Scarecrow is now MDC on Rifts Earth, they'd still have their MDC when under Metamorphosis: Human.

The Amaki, which I'll note in their description in SA2 both say nothing about their lacking blood and state that they find humanity similar to themselves which might suggest they have blood, could whip out potentially hundreds of golems with little in the way of downside.

I've taken the Amaki-Human being similar as a cultural/ideological reference rather than one on biology based on other cues. While I will agree it doesn't state they lack blood, it doesn't state they have it either (they might like the Plant D-Bees or Insect/Arachnids in RL have an anaolog).

I agree they could whip out a few hundred golems (especially being SDC beings technically) each, and they aren't the only one in either setting that could do this potentially. I'd also point out that Create Zombie requires blood, but doesn't impart an SDC cost (production here being limited by Ritual requirements like how long the subject has been dead, location, and time of the month/lunar cycle). So answering the blood aspect of C:G means answering it for C:Z (and possibly other magic that requires blood) that beings like the Scarecrow NPC could have.

As an aside, is there a quote anywhere about MDC beings creating Golems?

AFAIK it isn't addressed anywhere. I'm not even aware of any (Rifts) NPC writeups that address the issue either, or even NPCs (either MDC or SDC race) that even use them, unlike in PF (I know of the LLW NPC who transferred into a Golem body so we know the Ritual is used).

[Curbludgeon]

Metamorphosis Plant, Totem, and Shark grant bonus SDC, but are admittedly harder for many casters to access.

[ShadowLogan]

Looking through the BoM, of the x11 Magic Spell/Rituals I could identify as Metamorphosis in a broad quick search:
-x8 do not grant a bonus to SDC
-x1 grants an SDC bonus all the time
-x1 refers to material not in the BoM AFAIK, though is on your list so its separated and could belong to the all the time or specific case exceptions.
-x1 grants an SDC bonus in specific case (under Shark, it says specifically only when turning into the Monster Shark)

So it looks like there are exceptions, but the general rule of thumb does appear to be that you do not get bonus SDC.

And no I do not think temporary bonus SDC like Metamophosis or Psi-power of Summon Inner Strength (or "force fields") are ways around paying the SDC cost, they aren't permanent SDC, which is what (is implied) needs to be sacrificed . Unless the -5SDC cost isn't supposed to be permanent and we've been dealing with a typo for 30+ years (I do not think that is the case though) and you heal naturally.