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Where does the extra damage come from when enchanting a sword to be a Battle Fury Blade? Could something like a Wilk's Laser Sword gain the same or better benefit?

Okay, first off where does Battle Fury come from? I find no spell matching that name.

Battle Fury Blades are found in WB16 Federation of Magic revised pp 119-120, or Rifts Book of Magic pg 317. The spells involved in their creation are Ensorcel, Speed Weapon, Power Weapon, Invincible Armor, and Enchant Weapon.

The extra damage comes from the Power Weapon spell, made permanent via the 1000 PPE version of Enchant Weapon. Note that spell's 2d4 permanent PPE expense. Also see the Deathbringer weapon in either text for an example of when such a weapon is made without Power Weapon. The Ensorcel spell is arguably a more awkward fit in these weapons, and perhaps represents something akin to a minor variant of rune magic.

Since the bonus pain is coming form an enchantment to the weapon and a Wilk's laser sword is, technically, not the weapon itself but simply emiting the beam that that functions as the weapon, i don't think this'd work.

At least, i wouldn't allow it, sine it opens up the "i wanna enchant my boom gun!" door by making modern projectiles and directed energy blasts "weapons" in the same logical path as swords and clubs for magicin' purposes

Is a bow or crossbow eligible for enchantment?

Jefffar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:20 pm Is a bow or crossbow eligible for enchantment?

Nope; Power Weapon doesn't work on projectile types, Speed Weapon doesn't work on anything other than melee weaponry.
Enchant Weapon can be cast on a limited number of arrows/bolts, though.

Okay, so some here are trying to define the laser sword as a very short ranged, ranged weapon while others are saying it should be a melee weapon.

Jefffar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:29 pm Okay, so some here are trying to define the laser sword as a very short ranged, ranged weapon while others are saying it should be a melee weapon.

I am not defining it as a ranged weapon, i am defining it as an energy emitting device instead of a blade.

A Wilk's laser sword is a melee weapon in the same way a blowtorch is a melee weapon, the damage is not coming from the part you'd be enchanting but from the energy emitted by it when turned on. I want to be careful the enchantment is not read as "improves damage from the weapon regardless of the nature of how it causes said damage" here because that's a big ol' an of annoying worms.

To muddy things a bit further could a Vibro Weapon be eligible? There is a physical "blade" but any damage comes from a very short range field surrounding it. Arguably the physical blade never touches a target when the field is engaged, but that makes things like Vibro Chainsaws even more silly.

Jefffar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:29 pm Okay, so some here are trying to define the laser sword as a very short ranged, ranged weapon while others are saying it should be a melee weapon.

The books list it as a melee weapon.

Aermas wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 8:05 pm Where does the extra damage come from when enchanting a sword to be a Battle Fury Blade? Could something like a Wilk's Laser Sword gain the same or better benefit?

An energy blade like a Wilk's Laser Sword/Knife or TW Flaming Sword/Lightblade (etc). I'd say no, they don't have a physical blade to enchant, even though they have physical hilts the blade is not physical. I think this is important since we don't know the "modifications" they TW has to make in order to turn the ordinary weapon into a BFB, there just may not be room on a "hilt" to do it (ex, what if you need to put mystical markings on the blade, how do you do that with a non-physical blade like a laser sword?)

You could do it with a Vibro-blade, though likely are "destroying" the Vibro-technology to install the TW modifications. Something like the natural MDC metals (like Kissenette, sp?, or similar materials). Could work though I don't think they'd result in a better damage output than using ordinary materials.

Curbludgeon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:33 pm To muddy things a bit further could a Vibro Weapon be eligible? There is a physical "blade" but any damage comes from a very short range field surrounding it. Arguably the physical blade never touches a target when the field is engaged, but that makes things like Vibro Chainsaws even more silly.

it'd probably work, but on the knifeblade itself and not the vibrofield that does the damage. although that'd be a funny weapon, and MDC weapon that's magical only when it's turned off and acts as a "normal" knife.

You have the physical hilt & magic weapons come in all shapes & sizes so physical space isn't the limiter, we also see all kinds of magic devices/weapons with a projection effect.

Aermas wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 6:36 pm You have the physical hilt & magic weapons come in all shapes & sizes so physical space isn't the limiter, we also see all kinds of magic devices/weapons with a projection effect.

In general I would agree with this, but there can be specific use cases creates an exception.

The BFB entry in WB16o (pg119-20) are "usually Claymore swords, but on occasion, a weapon of this type is made as a Flamberge, polearm or large battle axe." It also mentions specifically "with designs etched into the blade."

The text specifically indicates alterations are made to the physical blade itself, something the wilk's laser sword lacks given it is only a hilt. The text also seems to indicate you need a lot of physical space given the only known examples are large weapons, which again a hilt-only weapon lacks.

Now a TW can create an hilt-only sword with a "projected blade" (Flaming Sword, Lightblade, IIRC even an Iceblade), but I don't think they can combine it with BFB proper given the description. That doesn't mean they could not give the device additional functions to give it SIMILAR abilities (x2 attack rate, increase damage, etc), and we know they can install multiple functions in a device.

So if it walks like a duck, quacks like & duck & does extra damage & attacks like a duck I'm comfortable saying it's a duck

What is this constant obsession with ducks? You have some unnatural attraction to waterfowl or something?
Leave the poor amphibious birds alone, willya?

Not til they pay for their crimes

Aermas wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:00 pm Not til they pay for their crimes

Was it Donald, Scrooge, or Howard who did you dirt?

This is getting Daffy.

You're despicable.

I'm thinking a possible way to deal with TW modifications potentially reducing the volume of a melee weapon's business end is to start with a larger weapon and incorporate a Mystic Fulcrum and\or Featherlight effect. With that even something which might be bulky like a two handed axe made of NYC mutant bone could be wielded easily, natively inflicts MDC damage, and there's enough space for a little wiring and crystals.

Curbludgeon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 12:34 pm I'm thinking a possible way to deal with TW modifications potentially reducing the volume of a melee weapon's business end is to start with a larger weapon and incorporate a Mystic Fulcrum and\or Featherlight effect. With that even something which might be bulky like a two handed axe made of NYC mutant bone could be wielded easily, natively inflicts MDC damage, and there's enough space for a little wiring and crystals.

Take it one step further and put a TW switch on the hilt. This switch would be tied to size manipulation spells like reduce self or giant, but customized using the rules in Nightbane TtGD to only affect the business end of the weapon - shrink it, expand it or return to normal size. That way, it doesn't get in the way if in a tight space, or gives reach when out in the open. Similar type switch could be put on a shield.

PS. Thank you for no duck puns... it was driving me quackers ...

Both of those spells are of fairly high cost and short duration, so I don't know. There are published items using Mystic Fulcrum (Magus Automata) and Featherlight (Deathbringer swords, even though the latter spell is described as making a target useless as a weapon. A possible workaround is to put a long term Dimensional Pocket spell on a pseudo sheath from which a weapon could be drawn. There's a Shadow Magic spell which has a similar effect, but that's even less commonly available.

Getting back to the OP's question of where the extra damage comes from a BFB?

Which extra damage?:
-when energized in BFB mode. That's coming from the magic involved, I don't recall a strength modifier so it's likely an aura thing (which might not be extendable to non-physical blades). It might also be the result of the TW magic function interacting with other magic properties of the weapon (see below)
-when un-energized, a typical Claymore sword is supposed to do 3d6 SDC damage in RUE (more than in RMB era where its 2d6, though the Flamberge is 3d6), which means its already doing x2 damage for some reason when it becomes "enchanted" for MD combat (its doing 2:1 instead of 1:1), which could be the purpose of the markings etched into the blade mentioned in the text. There are probably a few ways to up the damage, like a TW duplicating the PF Alchemists ability to increase damage magically (upto x3 magical properties can be instilled), manufacture methods (Dwarves and Kobalds can improve damage), and material(s) involved (silver is mentioned IIRC), or some combination of these.

Curbludgeon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:14 am Both of those spells are of fairly high cost and short duration, so I don't know. There are published items using Mystic Fulcrum (Magus Automata) and Featherlight (Deathbringer swords, even though the latter spell is described as making a target useless as a weapon. A possible workaround is to put a long term Dimensional Pocket spell on a pseudo sheath from which a weapon could be drawn. There's a Shadow Magic spell which has a similar effect, but that's even less commonly available.

While I'm not going to argue about what the spells state there are two caveats to keep in mind in regard to TW per text in RUE:
1. Spell Chains can modify aspects of the primary spell (this is seen with the classic TW Flaming Sword where Firebolt's instant effect is modified by other spells in the chain to have a longer duration than instant. This means if one can work out what spells could be justified in modifying the primary spell (MF or FL in this case) effect(s) you can get around limitations of the primary spell
2. TWs can "tweak" Spells without the use of a spell chain (they have an example of using Carpet of Adhesion for super traction tires, they traded strength of the adhesive property for greater duration. So maybe in this case FL for example is tweaked to not reduce the weight/mass as much in exchange for greater duration (or property).