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Simple, do the CCW, TGE and other powers in the Three Galaxies explore other dimensions? Do they have outposts, colonies, even member worlds in other dimensions?

I have always assumed that the UWW had a large presence in other dimensions and of course the Naruni and Splugorth do but what about the others? Do the Golgans? They have the Ultrovian so they can but on the other hand they might be too afraid.

The TGE is led by a supernatural creature so do they have holdings in other dimensions? If they do, does the CCW? I kind of go back and forth on this one but in the end I think it is really likely that they do have at least outposts and maybe diplomatic relations with powers in other dimensions even if it just ones they can reach through the gates at Phase World. Does the TGE have a secret weapons testing facility in an out of the way pocket dimension? Does the CCW have diplomatic relations with an another dimension as a source of valuable minerals or technology or at the very least they might explore other dimensions the way they do planets.

Just wondering what other people think or if I missed something in one of the books.

Most likely if a power has access to magic (such as the UWW) then it makes sense they would have some level of contact with extra-dimensional powers by default. If they are a pure tech power, it becomes less likely but still possible (known examples on Rifts Earth do exist in at least x3 instances that don't involve magic).

Generally it is hard to say who has what (aside from the Splugorth and Naruni) as would come down to possibly.

The Three Galaxies setting is concerned with the Three Galaxies. To the extent any major or minor power has extra dimensional outposts, they are a drop in the bucket, of no real consequence. It's not intended to be a megaversal setting with conflict in a dozen dimensions at once.

Could you do that if you wanted to? Sure. It's not hard to set up. It's just not the intended form of play. Even Naruni seems to keep things limited to sales offices in other dimensions. Not colonies or factories.

The exception rather than the rule. Power blocs originating from outside the Three Galaxies are likely to have colonies, but those that originated in it are at best going to have 'toe in the water' presences until any real advantages (and guarantees of access) can be established.

It takes a lot of magic energy to open and maintain a dimensional two-way conduit for stable colonization. Without Stone Masters to create a pyramid network or similar magics, many magic-based societies may not have the infrastructure to control dimensional rifts on the regular.

That said, there may be technical societies that do have the means via Transdimensional TMNT or magical societies that have learned from others the necessary magics. However, existing power blocs may monitor for new entrants in the transdimensional space and eliminate/dominate/subjugate their young competitors early.

Also, note that PPE may vary from world to world and just because there is the magical knowledge to do it, perhaps there isn't the large amount of PPE to sustain material colonization.

Just some thoughts. Have I thought about dimensional colonization from 3G in any great way? No. Is there cross-pollination between dimensions, yeah. Just haven't gone into the topic much outside the context of adventures.

I'm not sure if you really need Stone Masters/Pyramids for this on the magic end as there are spells/classes/rituals that could perform the same function w/o the Pyramids*. I do agree that the target world will need some level of magical energy activity (ie active ley lines) to be viable, you could also use "natural" formations like Ley Lines (which do have a 81-100% on a random table chance of opening a dimensional rift during a Ley Line Storm -RUE pg192), plus Eclipses and Equinox/Solstice. So given the right "natural" conditions it is possible for colonization to occur (even if we're dealing with "launch/return windows" for transit).

I'd also point out it really isn't a question of "may be" technical societies, we know such things exist w/o invoking the licensed property of TMNT. The Kremin (FC) Cyborgs (WB30 pg111-5, WB11) and Vernulians (WB30 pg210-3, WB1o) are both non-magic practicing races that use exclusively technology to traverse dimensions (and neither use magic). Then there is the Megaversal Legion (WB9: SA2) IINM and the Coalition (WB13: Lonestar) who both inherited the technology (though the CS doesn't use it, nor do I recall if they know they have it off hand). There might be others out there to, I just don't recall any (the aliens involved in WB10?, the Naruni maybe though here they could probably hire magic, the Farie Bots in WB30/20 are TWs so it seems unlikely they would have a pure tech solution).

*

Thanks for the responses everyone. I had been thinking about this for a while but a few things have come together to make me think that both the CCW and TGE would probably do at least some XD exploration and diplomacy.

DB2 itself. In the gatlands section it very briefly describes a few dimensions that can be reached from the gates. Some of these seem to be big players in commerce at the least.
I forget which one but in Japan WB one of the smaller kingdoms makes use of a stable rift to mine an alternate dimension for resources.
The CS sending teams to attack dimensional raiders in their home dimension and the existence of the Vanguard. If the CS is doing this, even in the super secret way I figure that major galaxy spanning militaries in a universe filled with magic would at least have the capacity to track an attacking XD enemy and retaliate.
There is a channel on Youtube called the Templin Institute and they are currently doing a world building project called Dawn of Victory, and I highly recommend everyone check those out. In one of the world building videos he commented on the premise of the first Hellboy movie that If the Nazis were trying to reach out to magical forces to win the war that the Allies wouldn’t just be trying to stop them but trying to reach out to mystical powers themselves. This has a certain degree of logic to me as militaries when trying to defeat one enemy often empower or even create one or two to replace those.

Given this it seems reasonable that at least some powers would:
Have teams with magical support that are designed to hunt down dimensional raiders
Have corporations might use other dimensions to acquire rare technology or natural resources
Reach out to dimensional markets to get technology they need (DB2 describes Ugakwan force fields as superior to Naruni, so why wouldn’t the CCW try to deal with them instead of Naruni)
Search ancient ruins for magical weapons for their special forces to use.
Create XD outposts to study rare natural phenomena or bizarre magical creatures.

Just my thinking on it but especially with the Minion War I could see 3G Power Blocks trying to make use of dimensional travel to get a leg up on the demons and deevils.

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:59 amI'm not sure if you really need Stone Masters/Pyramids for this on the magic end as there are spells/classes/rituals that could perform the same function w/o the Pyramids*. I do agree that the target world will need some level of magical energy activity (ie active ley lines) to be viable, you could also use "natural" formations like Ley Lines (which do have a 81-100% on a random table chance of opening a dimensional rift during a Ley Line Storm -RUE pg192), plus Eclipses and Equinox/Solstice. So given the right "natural" conditions it is possible for colonization to occur (even if we're dealing with "launch/return windows" for transit).

I'd also point out it really isn't a question of "may be" technical societies, we know such things exist w/o invoking the licensed property of TMNT. The Kremin (FC) Cyborgs (WB30 pg111-5, WB11) and Vernulians (WB30 pg210-3, WB1o) are both non-magic practicing races that use exclusively technology to traverse dimensions (and neither use magic). Then there is the Megaversal Legion (WB9: SA2) IINM and the Coalition (WB13: Lonestar) who both inherited the technology (though the CS doesn't use it, nor do I recall if they know they have it off hand). There might be others out there to, I just don't recall any (the aliens involved in WB10?, the Naruni maybe though here they could probably hire magic, the Farie Bots in WB30/20 are TWs so it seems unlikely they would have a pure tech solution).

I find myself mostly agreeing with Shadow Logan. Everyone in 3G has access to magic and men of magic can be hired by any organization. I find it impossible to believe that groups like the CAF wouldn't have military mages (at least some barrowed from the UWW or hiring retirees) for use against magical enemies like the Splugorth.

I'm not sure which power blocks would use technology instead of magic for XD travel but

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:01 amThe Three Galaxies setting is concerned with the Three Galaxies. To the extent any major or minor power has extra dimensional outposts, they are a drop in the bucket, of no real consequence. It's not intended to be a megaversal setting with conflict in a dozen dimensions at once.

Could you do that if you wanted to? Sure. It's not hard to set up. It's just not the intended form of play. Even Naruni seems to keep things limited to sales offices in other dimensions. Not colonies or factories.

I have to disagree with this and again I go back to DB 2 itself. Gateland and the dimensions it leads to were a part of the setting from the beginning as were the Naruni and the Splugorth. Add in the Minion war and to me this is just an aspect of the 3G civilizations that hasn't been explored yet.

Even your example of the Naruni is wrong. In DB2 pg. 16 it describes the Scorched Lands dimension with four cities that connect to Center. One of those cities became indebted to NE and is now basically a slave mining and manufacturing facility for NE. It also says that NE is not native to the 3G and has only been operating there for a few centuries.

I'm not saying that all the major power blocks will be neck deep in interdimensional politics, I am saying though that they would likely make use of it.

And I'm not saying that they don't have intrerdimensional colonies. I'm saying they are a small part of the whole and not terribly relevant to galactic politics.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:49 am And I'm not saying that they don't have intrerdimensional colonies. I'm saying they are a small part of the whole and not terribly relevant to galactic politics.

Good places to stash things, people, and projects, though, if your opposition isn't aware of extradimensional locations, and you can control the access point/dimensional gate. And if something goes wrong at either end and you can shut(permanently possibly) down the access point, there's that.

Of course, your big bad might decide to camp out near the gate and wit against the possibility f it reopening, but that's always a risk. If you're lucky (or well-prepared) you can wait out or outlive your antagonist party.

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 5:15 am I forget which one but in Japan WB one of the smaller kingdoms makes use of a stable rift to mine an alternate dimension for resources.

I forgot about this option to, natural occurring Rifts. Not sure how many actually exist.

And the Japanese Kingdom is Takamatsu (WB8 pg17-8).

The City of Psycape (WB12) and the City of Brass (WB16) are both extra-dimensional cities linked to Rifts Earth IIRC.

Fadetowns on Rifts Earth...though they generally don't get to go out and explore limbo-space when they're faded out.

There are a few other players on Rifts Earth we can point to that are extra-Dimensional Colonies on the planet that didn't get mentioned:
-Amaki (WB9, one of the Silver Republics can and do receive support from their home-world/dimension)
-Naut'yll (WB7) though I'm not sure of their method of Dimensional Travel (magic or tech).
-Vampires (WB1), though this via magic
-Xiticix (WB23), they might possibly count

So yes Extra-Dimensional Colonies are a thing, though not a very common thing it appears.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:49 amAnd I'm not saying that they don't have intrerdimensional colonies. I'm saying they are a small part of the whole and not terribly relevant to galactic politics.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with your first part. Even the UWW who I think probably has a fair number of XD territories and allies isn't going to equal more than a percentage point of their territory and population.

The second point, however, I think just depends. I mean Bosnia wasn't the most important place in the world until someone decided to kill an Archduke there and then it became very important. An XD colony/outpost is no different than a star system it might be incredibly unimportant until someone finds something there worth risking a war for.

taalismn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:51 amGood places to stash things, people, and projects, though, if your opposition isn't aware of extradimensional locations, and you can control the access point/dimensional gate. And if something goes wrong at either end and you can shut(permanently possibly) down the access point, there's that.

Of course, your big bad might decide to camp out near the gate and wit against the possibility f it reopening, but that's always a risk. If you're lucky (or well-prepared) you can wait out or outlive your antagonist party.

This is one of the things I have thought that the TGE would definitely use pocket dimensions for. It's also important to keep in mind that pocket dimensions come in all sizes. I can see a starship development group using a pocket dimension the size of solar system to test new ship types and technologies. Prisons are another great thing to put in a pocket dimension as well.

For the purposes of most campaigns though the big thing is when you are in Worldgate on Wormwood is there going to be CAF troops attacking a group of dimensional raiders or a GSA agent tracking a missing fugitive. If your players are looking for a mystical weapon

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:08 amThere are a few other players on Rifts Earth we can point to that are extra-Dimensional Colonies on the planet that didn't get mentioned:
-Amaki (WB9, one of the Silver Republics can and do receive support from their home-world/dimension)
-Naut'yll (WB7) though I'm not sure of their method of Dimensional Travel (magic or tech).
-Vampires (WB1), though this via magic
-Xiticix (WB23), they might possibly count

So yes Extra-Dimensional Colonies are a thing, though not a very common thing it appears.

I had thought of the Amaki and Horune, the Naut'yll didn't occur to me, but since we have no idea how they move about between dimensions I didn't mention them.

This is one of the things that I wish we could get in a dimension book. This is RIfts so more places to go to through them or people who come from them. It would be cool to get a book that has more information on the vernulians home world and a few of their dimensional conquests or Ugakwan homeworld or some Amaki colonies/home world or Naut'yll world. Instead of adding new things it would really help to develop some of these groups. IMO of course.

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:57 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:49 amAnd I'm not saying that they don't have intrerdimensional colonies. I'm saying they are a small part of the whole and not terribly relevant to galactic politics.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with your first part. Even the UWW who I think probably has a fair number of XD territories and allies isn't going to equal more than a percentage point of their territory and population.

The second point, however, I think just depends. I mean Bosnia wasn't the most important place in the world until someone decided to kill an Archduke there and then it became very important. An XD colony/outpost is no different than a star system it might be incredibly unimportant until someone finds something there worth risking a war for.

Eh. Notice how the history books say the war started over Bosnia and Austria invaded, and Russian sided, and then everything switches immediately to the big Western and Eastern fronts?

It's because Bosnia wasn't terribly important during or after the war either, so it drops out of most histories immediately after the war starts. because nothing there was particularlly important to the combatants and it had no real stragetic value to the larger war.

Could an Extradimensional Colony spark a war? I mean in theory sure if the crown prince of the TGE is assassinated in some extradimensional colony of the UWW, that could start a war. But the war wouldn't be over who controls that colony and attention would immediately shift to more important sectors. Which is what I mean by not important. Even when something important happens there, it's still about politics elsewhere.

A single match can ignite a giant pile of kindling, but it's the giant pile of kindling that's the problem, not the match.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:34 pm

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:57 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:49 amAnd I'm not saying that they don't have intrerdimensional colonies. I'm saying they are a small part of the whole and not terribly relevant to galactic politics.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with your first part. Even the UWW who I think probably has a fair number of XD territories and allies isn't going to equal more than a percentage point of their territory and population.

The second point, however, I think just depends. I mean Bosnia wasn't the most important place in the world until someone decided to kill an Archduke there and then it became very important. An XD colony/outpost is no different than a star system it might be incredibly unimportant until someone finds something there worth risking a war for.

Eh. Notice how the history books say the war started over Bosnia and Austria invaded, and Russian sided, and then everything switches immediately to the big Western and Eastern fronts?

It's because Bosnia wasn't terribly important during or after the war either, so it drops out of most histories immediately after the war starts. because nothing there was particularlly important to the combatants and it had no real stragetic value to the larger war.

Could an Extradimensional Colony spark a war? I mean in theory sure if the crown prince of the TGE is assassinated in some extradimensional colony of the UWW, that could start a war. But the war wouldn't be over who controls that colony and attention would immediately shift to more important sectors. Which is what I mean by not important. Even when something important happens there, it's still about politics elsewhere.

A single match can ignite a giant pile of kindling, but it's the giant pile of kindling that's the problem, not the match.

Everything you said about Bosnia in WWI is correct it's just not relevant to the conversation. Franz wasn't all that important in the grand scheme of things Austria was just looking for an excuse to do what they wanted and that excuse can come in any form. In the history of WWII Poland was almost irrelevant but its invasion by Germany was just a line that the allies couldn't allow to be crossed. The embargo of oil and steel to Japan seemed like a moderate economic sanction to 1940's America but it is now recognized as economic warfare under international law.

If an XD colony or outpost is sufficiently important, for any reason be it resources, personnel, location, whatever it is as important as any individual planet. The CCW is listed as having over 5,000 member worlds and you can easily argue that no one of those worlds is individually important too. However, if a Splugorth conducts a raid on one of those worlds the CAF has to respond otherwise the government looses credibility.

All I am saying is that having a holding in another dimension would be no different than having one in another sector or another galaxy, it is all about context.

And let us not forget the possibility of pocket dimensions created technologically or magically....Some really wealthy CCW member gets ahold of a technological artifact, or hires an eccentric scientist or UWW mage and creates their own private sub-universe as their own getaway.

Then somehow criminals break into it. If they're just common(for a degree of 'common') thugs, the matter's just local law...but, say, they were members of a UWW Dark Coven or TGE agents, and the sub-universe's owner's important enough, the matter just got a lot more sticky, galactic relations-wise.

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:57 pm

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:08 amThere are a few other players on Rifts Earth we can point to that are extra-Dimensional Colonies on the planet that didn't get mentioned:
-Amaki (WB9, one of the Silver Republics can and do receive support from their home-world/dimension)
-Naut'yll (WB7) though I'm not sure of their method of Dimensional Travel (magic or tech).
-Vampires (WB1), though this via magic
-Xiticix (WB23), they might possibly count

So yes Extra-Dimensional Colonies are a thing, though not a very common thing it appears.

I had thought of the Amaki and Horune, the Naut'yll didn't occur to me, but since we have no idea how they move about between dimensions I didn't mention them.

This is one of the things that I wish we could get in a dimension book. This is RIfts so more places to go to through them or people who come from them. It would be cool to get a book that has more information on the vernulians home world and a few of their dimensional conquests or Ugakwan homeworld or some Amaki colonies/home world or Naut'yll world. Instead of adding new things it would really help to develop some of these groups. IMO of course.

I skipped the Horune, I'm not sure if I would qualify them as "colonizers" which is what I was thinking of. If we skip "colonizer" motif, we can add the Gene Splicers.

While I agree the Amaki and Naut'yll don't get into how they traverse dimensions, we know they do. So even if we don't know the how, we know they do which could still be noted.

There are a variety of Rifts D-Bee/Races that I would be interested in seeing beyond just the Amaki and Naut'yll and Vernulians. You've got the Shaydor (WB2, x2 races spherian and intel, IIRC the x3 Hawks might be another candidate world), and IIRC some books have multiple (non-sentient) creatures coming from the same world which might also deserve a look (the ones with multiple "guests" might be the easier ones to start), some of the PW Races might also be interesting to see.. I'm not even saying they have to be at traditional WB/DB size, you might be able to get away with some at Source Book size (if nothing else for early ones to "test" the waters to see how viable it might be as a series) and we know some DBs do come in SB size (Phaseworld SB, Naruni Wave 2, Fleet of the 3 Galaxies).

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:17 am

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:34 pm

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:57 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:49 amAnd I'm not saying that they don't have intrerdimensional colonies. I'm saying they are a small part of the whole and not terribly relevant to galactic politics.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with your first part. Even the UWW who I think probably has a fair number of XD territories and allies isn't going to equal more than a percentage point of their territory and population.

The second point, however, I think just depends. I mean Bosnia wasn't the most important place in the world until someone decided to kill an Archduke there and then it became very important. An XD colony/outpost is no different than a star system it might be incredibly unimportant until someone finds something there worth risking a war for.

Eh. Notice how the history books say the war started over Bosnia and Austria invaded, and Russian sided, and then everything switches immediately to the big Western and Eastern fronts?

It's because Bosnia wasn't terribly important during or after the war either, so it drops out of most histories immediately after the war starts. because nothing there was particularlly important to the combatants and it had no real stragetic value to the larger war.

Could an Extradimensional Colony spark a war? I mean in theory sure if the crown prince of the TGE is assassinated in some extradimensional colony of the UWW, that could start a war. But the war wouldn't be over who controls that colony and attention would immediately shift to more important sectors. Which is what I mean by not important. Even when something important happens there, it's still about politics elsewhere.

A single match can ignite a giant pile of kindling, but it's the giant pile of kindling that's the problem, not the match.

Everything you said about Bosnia in WWI is correct it's just not relevant to the conversation.

Hey, you're the one who brought up Bosnia in WW I, not me.

If an XD colony or outpost is sufficiently important, for any reason be it resources, personnel, location, whatever it is as important as any individual planet. The CCW is listed as having over 5,000 member worlds and you can easily argue that no one of those worlds is individually important too. However, if a Splugorth conducts a raid on one of those worlds the CAF has to respond otherwise the government looses credibility.

All I am saying is that having a holding in another dimension would be no different than having one in another sector or another galaxy, it is all about context.

I mean that's sort of my point. The Three Galaxies is already a setting with more worlds and points of interest than the game could cover. I think there's a good reason the game doesn't focus on extra dimensional colonies: it would dilute the already diluted focus of the setting.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 1:26 pm

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:17 amIf an XD colony or outpost is sufficiently important, for any reason be it resources, personnel, location, whatever it is as important as any individual planet. The CCW is listed as having over 5,000 member worlds and you can easily argue that no one of those worlds is individually important too. However, if a Splugorth conducts a raid on one of those worlds the CAF has to respond otherwise the government looses credibility.

All I am saying is that having a holding in another dimension would be no different than having one in another sector or another galaxy, it is all about context.

I mean that's sort of my point. The Three Galaxies is already a setting with more worlds and points of interest than the game could cover. I think there's a good reason the game doesn't focus on extra dimensional colonies: it would dilute the already diluted focus of the setting.

From a purely game logistics point of view I absolutely agree with you. However, It's Phase World is a series of RIfts Dimension Books and right next to the spaceport in the City of Center is Gateland full of permanent dimensional gates so I just think it has to be a part of the whole thing. Only question is, how much of a part.

One thing that surprises me is Hades and Dyval are attacking the UWW, CCW and other 3G powers. Where is the counter attack? Hades is a tough place for SDC humans but how about a division of Seljuk marines with SIlverhawks and Warlock Marines in support? (Tell me the mere thought of that isn't brown trousers time) We know the UWW can move groups that large reliably so why not?

It just doesn't make sense that these powers would be surrounded by magic and not at least study or have some limited capabilities at least on par with the Coalition States.

They absolutely practice dimensional exploration, but I dont feel like making up thousands of other universes for detailing. And I have no doubt they've hit Wormwood and the Hades, but I dont feel like doing a crossover campaign right now.

Warshield73 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2025 12:50 am
One thing that surprises me is Hades and Dyval are attacking the UWW, CCW and other 3G powers. Where is the counter attack? Hades is a tough place for SDC humans but how about a division of Seljuk marines with SIlverhawks and Warlock Marines in support? (Tell me the mere thought of that isn't brown trousers time) We know the UWW can move groups that large reliably so why not?

Damned(excuse me) little is known of the Infernal dimensions and the monsters would have the home field advantage. What little reliable intel the 3G powers have likely has them thinking that an invasion attempt would be suicidal(and any experiences with hitting Demon Planets would be like the Allies in WW2 Pacific War drawing conclusions from the islands campaigns of how an invasion of the Japanese home islands might go).

HOWEVER, working up and executing a raid/counterattack could be the point of an entire campaign, with maybe the PCs acting like the pre-D-Day scouts of the Normandy coast, slipping in and gathering information on local conditions. Such a group would likely have a rather eccentric mix of characters with specialized equipment. And the information they gather would be invaluable to developing future strategy and weapons.