Assasin losed his critical from behind?

[K-ill-A]

In palladium second edition assasin or hand to hand: assasin, no longer have "critical strike from behind". Why is that?

[K-ill-A]

In other hand "hand to hand: expert" and "hand to hand: basic" does have 2x and 3x critical from behind attacks... in palladium first edition assasin and thief were know for their backstabs.

[Tinker Dragoon]

When new editions come out things usually get revised, for better or worse. That's just one such case.

[Vidynn]

good ol' backstabbing...boy, this sounds D&Dish.



Vid

[Veknironth]

Well, it seems to me that the one shot one kill has many problems. The first is, it's not fun. No one wants to have a character killed without even having a chance to roll with it. Also, if you allow PC's to run around and do it, it doesn't lend much to confrontation. You roll a prowl, and then the guy is dead.

The second problem I have with the auto kill is it's not that easy. You can't just walk up and slit someone's throat. As soon as they feel your hand on their face or head they'll react. No, you need to have them totally unable to defend themselves. The only way to really kill with one shot is to hit the brain and do enough damage, or to do enough damage to the heart in one shot. Otherwise, the person will not just die. I don't think that an assasssin would be any better at penetrating the skull than the an average soldier. Perhaps they'd be better at striking the heart, but that's not guaranteed.

Anyhow, I like the idea that they do more damage from behind. It could end up being that the attack, with the extra damage, is a kill. Makes things so that the assassin can kill most beings with one shot, but not toughies won't just die.

-Vek
"Don't like the auto kill."

[The Immortal ME]

A stilleto between some cervical vertebre would do it, too.

But either way, I wouldn't want to get taken from behind ... especially if there is any soap involved.

[Cranus]

Here's a simple solution: invoke the golden rule and state that Assassins get the Critical from Behind ability. Problem solved.

As for auto-kills, I agree with Vekniroth. One, not many players like their characters being killed automatically. Two, its not much of a source of tension. Three, it would be extremely hard for low level characters with their low level prowl skills to perform

[Rpgpunk]

If you can make the prowl skill and sneak up behind them and slit thier neck then so be it, auto-kill.

But remember, what you can do to someone can also be done to you.

[Reagren Wright]

The fact the Assassins lost their back stab always bothered me. So does
the fact that thieves don't get prowl as part of their OCC skills
After that above mentioned Rifter came out, I decided to let all HtH
have the ability to critical from behind, since in various other RPG of
Palladium its given as a first level freebie, N&SS for example.
However, the assassins would possess the exclusive backstab
that could do massive amount of damage
as they level up.

As for auto kill, I remember 1st edition Death Blow. It just
killed you. No Roll with Punch/Fall, no saving throw, just death.
You ran into a high level villain with that power you were
scarred to death.

Now Death Blow does double damage to hp. Still very nasty, but at least
you have some slim chance of surviving the attack.

[Cranus]

how about a Death blow from behind for Assassians then it alows for higher level charaters to survive the attack and scares the hell out of the lower lever PC's and maybe requireing a prowl roll at a -10 or some such

At what level would the Assassin get the ability? Judging by your suggestion of prowl penalty, it would be unlikely that a low level assassin could pull it off.

[Cranus]

As a 6th or 7th level ability, the idea works if they don't have to announce the ability's use as they get death blow at 7th level.

The gradual reduction in prowl penalty allows the death blow to be possible at low levels although a bit unlikely. It also makes gaining levels in Assassin OCC more rewarding.

I don't think the idea is too munchkiny as the character has to make two prowl checks with one having a penalty.

[Cranus]

your Post gave me the idea for my assassin guild game
the assassins call them selves Tra Rad ' Vanna (Leaf & Tree) and they do the Durty work of the feared guild of Entertainers called the Guild of Kleintro. I thank you for starting me on the idea of assassins Cranus

Well, I appreciate the thanks. Its nice to know that feedback I provided on a house rule will actually be used. Come to think about, that's one of the reason I appreciate boards such as this. Its a chance for gamers to in a sense give back to the hobby.

I will try to post the story of the guild as it unfolds look for a post on the Tar Rad'Vanna

That ought to be a neat read.

[Reagren Wright]

What if the assassin is trying to sneak up on someone, but the guy
has the skill Detect Ambush? The assassin successfully rolls his Prowl skill, but the other guy successful does his Detect Ambush, so whose
skill overrides what?

[kamikazzijoe]

I asked Rodney Scott why assassins don't have crits from behind in the old FAQ and his response was that Palladium assassins aren't back stabbers like in some other rpgs.
In my games we play the natural die roll has to beat the AR to go through (after 20 guards died without a single dent in their platemail) with the exception being surprise attacks where the strike total just has to beat the AR. Combined wiht poisons that tends to make assassins as deadly as expected when compared to other classes.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

the assassin should get a special atteck from behind.
one that goes direct to hit points.
it should also step up with levels to allow the assassin to be more effective as HP rises with level.
This is independant of criticles and must penetrate armour, so there are still available defences.

regardless of whether another game has criticles from behind (when flat footed, which is a bit different) the assassin is just that, an assassin. his alignment requires him to be a bad wo/man.
it may not be a "back stab", think kidneys, disembowl, throat cut. the damage roll will tell us how effective the blade cut, the fact it goe to HP shows that is was to vital areas.

most people will have a fighting chance with PE+(Level x 1d6)=HP vs 1d6+str bonus. this is why the assassins "back stab" should get a times modifyer at 3 intervals (5, 10 & 15 ?) as at level 5 the assassin is up against PE + 5d6 HP.
it also makes experiences assassins scary for the lower leveled people. as they should be.