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Here's (perhaps) a seldom asked question: Can vampirism be acquired outside of a vamp's bite or the ritual of transformation (necro spell)? Say for example (actually this is another asinine question that has come up...), a vampire sticks himself in the heart with a syringe, thereby accessing the one area of his body that still has blood, (but doesn't use a wooden, magic or silver syringe so it doesn't incapacitate him), and withdraws some of his blood. Now, he finds an unfortunate heroine addict in Chi-town, and while the poor chap is off his rocker, convinces him the blood in question is really a hyper-wicked kind of vein juice and he ought to try it. Just to make sure, the miscreant vamp uses his super hypnotic suggestion and makes the guy do it, and he does so, injecting himself with vamp blood. Now, does this make the guy a vamp, if repeated enough times?

Next scenario: A female vamp decides to reward a PC with, shall-we-say, less than material favor, as a reward for quest completion. Bottom-line (and I mean the bottom, this is off the bottom of the barrel), is vampirism ever considered an STD, and can it be contracted in such a way? Bear in mind, when a vamp bites somebody, there is fluid exchange ( and I will NOT get anymore specific/graphic than that!), so is that the basis for the spreading of the disease???

Sorry, I only ask because my opinion on the matter was not sufficient to convince some extremely skeptical doubting-tomases I know... --GJ.

ummmm. . . no and no.

it's NOT the blood, or sexual transmission.

in Rifts, becomeing a vapire means tying the vitems soul to the Vampire Intelligence. that's the only way.

you don't even need to get bit. a Master Vampire links directly with the Vampire intelligence. BUT the link is magical in nature, and needs to follow it's own rules. those rules state that only a willing link with the Vampire intelgences Fragment or the slow bite of a pre-created vampire can form a new vampire.

it's not the blood. IT"S THE MAGIC

Nekira Sudacne wrote:in Rifts, becomeing a vapire means tying the vitems soul to the Vampire Intelligence. that's the only way.

you don't even need to get bit. a Master Vampire links directly with the Vampire intelligence. BUT the link is magical in nature, and needs to follow it's own rules. those rules state that only a willing link with the Vampire intelgences Fragment or the slow bite of a pre-created vampire can form a new vampire.

it's not the blood. IT"S THE MAGIC

But what about the necro spell? That involves neither a slow-kill bite nor a vampire intelligence at all... As for the intelligence, they only get involved (well, not only but mostly), in the creation of master vampires, which is what you get when a necromancer uses that ritual of transformation; he/she becomes a master vamp through their own magic. Anyway, I agree with you, but I have to play devil's (meaning, naughty-pc's), advocate. Thanks!! --GJ.

Goblin-Jack wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:in Rifts, becomeing a vapire means tying the vitems soul to the Vampire Intelligence. that's the only way.

you don't even need to get bit. a Master Vampire links directly with the Vampire intelligence. BUT the link is magical in nature, and needs to follow it's own rules. those rules state that only a willing link with the Vampire intelgences Fragment or the slow bite of a pre-created vampire can form a new vampire.

it's not the blood. IT"S THE MAGIC

But what about the necro spell? That involves neither a slow-kill bite nor a vampire intelligence at all... As for the intelligence, they only get involved (well, not only but mostly), in the creation of master vampires, which is what you get when a necromancer uses that ritual of transformation; he/she becomes a master vamp through their own magic. Anyway, I agree with you, but I have to play devil's (meaning, naughty-pc's), advocate. Thanks!! --GJ.

it must get involved in all stages. it says quite plainly that even with the normal one the powers of vamparism come from the link with the inteligence. that's why the intellegences can control the minons.

as far as the necro spell, the vampire intellegince has innate magic that allows it to create vampires. normal magic can immiate it's effects. after all, a vampire intelligence can cast Domnination, but that's a spell too.

but the crux here is, it's MAGIC all the way. supernatural. it must be done correctly, by route and rythem, to create it's effects. the ways you discribe do not invoke any magic in any way.

Well, depending on the experience of the parties involved, it sure might seem like magic... but I digress! You're right Nekira, naturally, I thank you for your input! --GJ.

no prob

hi... truth to tell, if the ritual of transformation you mention is the "Return From the Grave" stuff introduced in Mystic Russia... I'd go beyon Nekira and say that i's not mundane magic imitating the power of an Intelligence... but that the whole ritual stuff is actually aimed at drawing the attention of a vamp Intelligence, and showing that the necromance *is* willing to be possessed and become a mastervampire... the people who just pray, or meditate, or whatever, and happen to be contacted got lucky. the necromantic way is surefire to insure your fraggin' *immortality*... I just wonder why more necromancers don't use it...

You make an omelette you break a few eggs, right? In a transition from mortal to immortal, or in a more mundane sense from mortal to supernatural, you have to show the process of converting somehow. In this case that is a "loss" of skills and PPE. Look at any supernatural (truly supernatural here), creature and you will almost always find their skills are always limited, as are their spell casting abilities and PPE. However, their incredible (super) natural abilities make a wide selection of skills and reliance upon large quantities of PPE and the accompanying spells powered by that PPE unnecessary. In short, they don't need it as much anymore as the reason they would use skills and spells is to augment their normally mortal abilities to be on par with supernatural creatures/processes they wish to command or combat.

However, I would still dispute that any necro that uses the Return from the grave ritual is in anyway beholden to a vampire intelligence. I believe (and so set the rule thusly in my campaigns), that as their is no reference to this being the case in the spell description, any player or NPC that undergoes this ritual successfully is simply an independant, master vampire. Your thoughts?-GJ.

well... about the new master vamp being "independant" in so far as he is not directly beholden and subject to the father intelligence's will, you're right, though, I believe that no kind of magic can actually reproduce vampiric possession without help from an intelligence.

on the other hand, the necro vamp being very evil and dedicated to death... I don't think it would make much fuss about cooperating with his sponsoring intelligence... the more secondaries it creates, the bigger a power base he will have for himself after all
.

svartalf wrote:well... about the new master vamp being "independant" in so far as he is not directly beholden and subject to the father intelligence's will, you're right, though, I believe that no kind of magic can actually reproduce vampiric possession without help from an intelligence.

on the other hand, the necro vamp being very evil and dedicated to death... I don't think it would make much fuss about cooperating with his sponsoring intelligence... the more secondaries it creates, the bigger a power base he will have for himself after all
.

There isn't a sponsoring intelligence tho...

Vrykolas2k wrote:There isn't a sponsoring intelligence tho...

Vryk, don't be a ***** :-p

I just explained how in my conception, there *has* to be one, even if the new vamp is not standard or beholden to it. and when it comes to vamp house rules, your making this kind of remarks is like the splugorth calling the vamp intelligence tentacly

svartalf wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:There isn't a sponsoring intelligence tho...

Vryk, don't be a priyck :-p

I just explained how in my conception, there *has* to be one, even if the new vamp is not standard or beholden to it. and when it comes to vamp house rules, your making this kind of remarks is like the splugorth calling the vamp intelligence tentacly

O it's a HOUSE RULE... now I see. Okay then. I thought I had misread the spell somehow.

Goblin-Jack...

Scenario 1
Only in White Wolf, and possibly not even there, although you (the addict) will now live for many, many decades beyond what you should as a ghoul.

Scenario 2
Only if she does this over three nights...and assuming she has some KY Jelly, otherwise it might become painfully awkward.

The only a way a vampire can create another is with the slow-kill bite, period.

Necromancers may come up with other methods though.

For some reason when I see the tital of this the thing that keeps poping into my mind is, ok are we talking about Republican Christian Conservatists who only eat cooked Vegies?

Dear svartalf,

I continue to disagree with you about the idea of a necro being beholden to a vamp intelligence, but that's okay. I don't want to start (or even seem to) a fight with you over this. We both have different ideas about it, okay, that's cool. I respect that.

To everyone else, is the title of the thread a tad misleading? Yes, of course it is, everyone thought I was going to ask about lesbian-biker-vampire-motorcycle-mercenary-gangs-in-mexico-trying-to-usurp-control-of-the-pecos-empire-and-challenge-the-patriarchal-CS-for-control-of-the-region, right? Well, it's not a bad idea, maybe someone with some talent can expound on it. But in actuality, I was wondering about alternative ways of becoming a vampire, or perhaps "vampire-ish", through non-traditional ways. Thanks for all the input, especially the KY jelly part! I wonder if they sell that in Rifts, and if the CS makes their own version, perhaps called "DB Jelly," DB meaning "dead-boy" of course... --GJ.

Goblin jack

Right O man...
it's not as though either of us were going to GM the other's necorrmancer character after all ... so no risk of one imposing his views .

well... I might play a necro one of those days... especially if my GM takes us to Russia... but you'd never catch me dead using that Return from the Grave stuff... it may last forever... but is it still a life?