Opinion: How will the CS change once Joseph becomes Emperor?

[Stormseed]

I think that they would rely less on force of arms and more on diplomacy.

[Capt. Meschievitz]

Well Joeseph is more open minded than his father is and might even start researching into magic's further, through genetic engineering and some sort of controlling messure, try and make a controlled force....building cyber Knightesk troops for front line combat....maybe.

The people will love him more than his father, ture.

More advancement in relations with nuetral kingdoms and other human based socialities...

[Vrykolas2k]

I think he'd allow the Vanguard to be accepted into the CS forces, and he'd PERSONALLY check up on Lone Star. I think also that he'd vastly upgrade the intelligence community, and establish better relations with NGR, FQ and the Republic of Columbia. He'd also probably gain more CS territory, though not necessarily through combat... his would be an empire of building up what he's already got.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I think he'd allow the Vanguard to be accepted into the CS forces, and he'd PERSONALLY check up on Lone Star. I think also that he'd vastly upgrade the intelligence community, and establish better relations with NGR, FQ and the Republic of Columbia. He'd also probably gain more CS territory, though not necessarily through combat... his would be an empire of building up what he's already got.

I agree. Heck he may even open up dialogue with Lazlo or Psyscape. If he does any combat, it would likely be against the FoM of course or possibly Kingsdale.
Lone Star I think has the potential to see the biggest changes, using diplomacy to get both El Paso and Los Alamos to join the CS, and of course whatever happens with Bradford...

[Capt. Meschievitz]

Yep that sums up what I think as well....DAMN!

[dark brandon]

I think he'd allow the Vanguard to be accepted into the CS forces, and he'd PERSONALLY check up on Lone Star. I think also that he'd vastly upgrade the intelligence community, and establish better relations with NGR, FQ and the Republic of Columbia. He'd also probably gain more CS territory, though not necessarily through combat... his would be an empire of building up what he's already got.

I believe in the book the "Vanguard" it specifically stated he's never openly support them. He may give them a sort of "Secret service" type thing, but I don't think CS or even joseph would allow mages into CS.

I can see him increasing Borg and Juicer ranks, especially if they are burb scum along with an increase in the psi-battallion.

I would say increased trade with NGR, but CS already has an unlimited trade agreement with them. Probably establish better relations with FQ. RoC maybe. He may even borrow anti-monster help and mingle them in with vanguard (But not likely to possess or know how or what to create them), but then, no body would ever know of the vanguard. that'll be his own 'secret army'.

and maybe a brief civil war with bradford. Other than that, nothing exactly Earth shaking like public schooling or anything.

[Capt. Meschievitz]

unless he could sway the general puplic into adoping the vanguard as military force and find someway of screening the applicants that join up...

[Vrykolas2k]

unless he could sway the general puplic into adoping the vanguard as military force and find someway of screening the applicants that join up...

Pretty much my thoughts exactly... then again I don't have their book, but it's probably a parent to child thing so I doubt screening would be TOO difficult...

[Vrykolas2k]

I agree with the majority here, that Emperor Joe(doesn't that sound kinda lame by the way? no offense to CS fans) would be less interested in military expansion and focus more attention on diplomatic means. If you turn your enemy in to an ally do you not defeat him? I think Joe realizes that and would devote his energy towards that goal. He is after all THE master of propaganda and manipulation.

Awhile back someone had posted a "what would you do with the CS" topic. On there I had outlined things I think the CS should do in my opinion. These things were not only would I would do but I feel that it could actually happen. The following is a repost of that...

The following are not in any order of priority...
1. Begin new propaganda efforts to generate positive opinions about the CS amongst the peoples of the surrounding areas.
2. As part of propaganda give "good faith" gifts and treaties to Free Quebec in order to form a stronger alliance.
3. Acknowledge the Vanguard and re-create CS magic division similar to the Psi Division. Run pro magic propaganda PRIOR to announcements. A year should do it.
4. Continue to run Pro-human and anti alien propaganda. It gives the people something to hate and therefore will keep them united under the emperor's rule.
5. Offer formal non-aggression pact to New Lazlo and Lazlo. Part of pact will be setting of borders. Have pact re-newable every 10 years. This will (hopefully) generate good will within those states and allow time for the CS to rebuild it's forces, develope new tactics based on Tolkeen offensive and fully intergrate the new Magic division in to the regular army. By adopting magic(human only, NO demon summoning) and the pro magic propaganda running in the CS itself this will cause Lazlo and New Lazlo to believe that the CS is slowly coming around toward a more tolerant attitude.
6. Work on diversifing resources. Currently the CS state of Missouri is the central farmland of the CS states. If those farmlands were to be destroyed it would be a serious threat to CS security and well being.
7. After incorporating the Vanguard and magic divisions in to the army, conduct a series of exercises pitting them against the current CS defenses, correct any problems. Then conduct a second series of exercises designed to utilize all battle field systems such as air support, infantry, artillery, psionics, magic, ECM, mechanized. This will ensure that the next war, be it offensive or defensive will go smoother then it otherwise might have.
8. After non-aggression pact with Lazlo, New Lazlo is in effect and after rebuilding or army is complete, start new offensive against Xiticix. If at all possible arrange for Lazlo or New Lazlo to render aid or atleast come in to direct confrontation with Xiticix. If done properly it will further create a feeling of trust in those nations, thus making a surprise attack against them easyer when the time comes.
9. Continue the bans on certain vids, books, etc. but start program ro promote literacy amongst the population. Tie this new program into propanganda effort. A message like"now that the monsters at Tolkeen are no longer attacking us, your Emperor can devote his attention to YOU the loyal citizens of the great human Coalition States." Something like that should do well. It will generate feelings of accomplishment among the population and make the war seem like Tolkeen was the aggressor. Stress the part of the Emperor taking care of his people and their needs.
10. As part of rebuilding, tie in new recruiting/retention benefits to propaganda efforts. The feelings of national pride and affection for the Emperor should swell the ranks of the armed forces.
I could go on but this is already becoming too long.

To address some of the items in that post. Let's start with the literacy campaign. Now before you shoot me down just consider this, how many times a day do you read something wether you want to or not? We here in modern America are bombarded by billboards, posters, junk mail, SPAM and the like.

The printed word is one of the basic tools of information dissemination. Consequently it is also one of the basic tools of propaganda. ESPECIALLY totalitarian regimes like the Coalition. Why cut yourself off from an entire avenue of propaganda? Yes there is a danger that a populace able to read would also read books you don't want them too but I think the risk for the CS is minimal. It's not like today where we have the internet and can travel where we want to when we want to. Just look at Chi-Town, if thats not near a 100% closed system I don't know what is. Another thing to consider is the love for the Emperor. If you are Joe(no pun intended) average Coalition citizen who will you believe, your Emperor who has kept you safe from monsters and demons all these years? Or some old lady that has a dragon for a best friend?

Remember people believe what they want to believe. I think they would continue to want to believe their Emperor over anyone else. Only by EXTENSIVE contact with aliens and the like would they begin to question what they have been taught. Extensive contact the average citizen wouldn't have.

Thats enough for right now I think, this is post is becoming rather long. I'll post again later on some of the other things.

Hmmm... very good point... spend time consolidating his hold over what he owns, teach CITIZENS to read to further control the masses... even make the humans in the 'burbs full citizens, so they can be better motivated to kick out the D-Bees amongst them...

[dark brandon]

I think that Joseph would be even more iron-fisted than his father.

Yeah. He wouldn't waist time with "alliences" with lazlo or the like because, it would be superficial at best. The worst is just a waist of time. Neither side would take it seriously, and lazlo would do it out of "good faith" but know it would be meaningless. And concidering CS probably wouldn't change it's policy with dbees in it's territory, Lazlo probably won't even hear them out.

Next, he won't waist time with teaching people to read. It's easier to keep the populace illiterate than it would be to keep a single book out of their hands. One of erin tarns books is worthless in the hands of someone who can't read. Not only that, they have done a pretty good job of using propoganda without having it's population literate. To activly make them literate would be a step backwards.

Next, magic will not be part of CS. Part of CS is the anti-magic. You've spent a good amount of time saying "magic is evil" but the propaganda needed to change all that, even to the "exclusive to CS" will make the government seem like hypocrits. You'll need about a generation, if not more to get people 'accustomed' to mages even for strict military purposes. If he ever did try to institute mages back into the CS military, it'd probably be a good sign that CS is about ready to fall apart.

[RockJock]

I could seeing Joe using the Vanguard in a desperate situation. Saving the CS from a defeat, or something similar that is in the public view. That way he could bring them into the fold as heroes, but only in a limited basis. Sort of like how Psi-Stalker and Dog Boys were first treated. Saying that the great CS made a mistake, but that some, very noble magic users could help strengthen the nation. Sort of like when his father pulled back on the FQ issue.

[dark brandon]

Just like psychics were considered not true Humans before the Coalition War Campaign book came out but now are considered to be ok. The Coalition HAS changed it's policies in the past. It once accepted magic then changed it's mind. It can do so again and I think that with a new emperor it is likely.

The view coalition had on pychics has always been skewed. It's still pretty much the same unless the pychic is part of psi-squad or works for the CS in some way. After all, psi-stalkers have always been a part of cs, and were pychic. They are still second class citizens, but for the most part they are accepted. In cs book, it also describes that any pychic not part of the CS military are still treated rather badly. Now magic on the other hand has always been looked down upon. There has never (save before the war with FoM) been a magic user in cs since then. It can change it's policies, but the two things that have always made cs what cs is, is it's anti-magic, anti-dbee policies.

I would like to point out to anyone not familiar with my posts that I am a moderate on the Coalition States. I do not subscribe to the notion that they are the soul of all that is Evil nor do I consider them to be Holy knights in the defense of all that is Good.

duely noted, and so am I.

To be perfectly honest, I take comfort in the fact that the Coalition IS anti-magic. If they were to embrace magic but keep the Human supremacy and the hunger for conquest, I would be more worried about them. In such a case(as I mentioned elsewhere) I could see them dominating the ENTIRE North American continent in no more then 30 years. Not just the small portion they control now.

He wouldn't waist time with "alliences" with lazlo or the like

I already stated my reasons for why a PEACE treaty would be in the Coalition's interest and not a "waste of time". I mentioned nothing of an alliance, I said non-aggression pact. NOT the same thing. I also went on to suggest that the Coalition ATTACK in due time.

they would expect an attack with any non-aggression pact or anything. Not only that, lazlo isn't an aggressive state. Other minor kingdomes may pose terrorist threat, but anyone who makes a deal with cs will probably expect them not to hold their end of the deal, and probably won't hold their end of the deal either.

Regarding literacy, in my initial post I anticipated that some would have an opposing view. I,(apparently correctly) thought it might draw more fire then the magic or D-bee issue. I have said why I think they should change that bit of policy and a small amount of the benefits for them. I guess more benefits need to be listed.

Here is something else to consider. IF the Coalition were to adopt a literacy program for citizens and the standardized schooling that it would require, it would increase the chances of them finding the Einsteins, Teslas or Edisons among their population. With out such a school program, to identify the "gifted" individuals of the population, they are wasting resources. Worse they are breeding resentment among the have nots which could lead to problems in the future.

as I said before, they seem to be doing fine with that at the moment. no need to give them more than what they need.

Something it HAS definitely done though is create an avenue for the natural rebellious attitudes of many young, poor people. We see evidence of this in the world of Rifts with the "City Rat OCC". To quote" They crave adventure and find it by bucking the system" Pg.73 Rifts main book. By restricting such basic knowledge as reading, by making it illegal, the Coalition government actually ENCOURAGES this kind of behavior. It's simple logic, since reading is forbidden, the City Rat rebels by learning to read. He begins to educate himself and then uses that education for one of two things. 1, he seeks others ways to "fight the system" and creates more problems for the government. 2, he uses his knowledge to further his own personal goals. Hacking for fun and profit anyone?

True, but eventually that natural rebellion phaze goes away. besides, a city rat may try to educate themselves, but I don't see a group of friends hanging together reading "hop on pop" just to spite the CS. Some may, but not enough to worry about.

In either case it would be avoided by simply making reading legal. Think about, who here would think of being able to read as a form of rebellion against the government? Nearly everyone can read so it's not that exciting. It's not forbidden. Now remember what I said about finding the gifted individuals as early as possible? By finding, selecting and then training them at an early age you create a useful resource. With the totalitarian dictatorship the CS has this would be easy. What parent would object to their child being chosen to further the "great cause of Humanity" by serving in a special research center? The CS would pay all the child's bills, clothes, food, medical, retirement. In exchange the young ones will be making great strides in science, technology and yes perhaps even in magic if it is allowed.

In exchange for possible genious, your risking the stability (in their mind) of the government. Even with restricted reading and having to pour MORE money into propoganda and now schooling, your giving your people a window to the world. I know of 3 books I've read in my life time that have changed my view on the world. Now, if erin tarn is as great a writer as they make out, then now those city rats who want to stick it to CS get a hold of her book and now with their city payed for education and now they have more fire for their anti-cs ways and a logical well written book.

If you want to look at a "real world" example you need only to look at some of the great minds of history. Einstein was actually considered an idiot when he was young! He wasn't very good at math you see. Yet now he is thought of as one of the most brilliant men of all time. If he had never been allowed to read and study how would the world have ever known?

At the risk of sounding egotistical, I am a product of public education. I was raised on welfare by a single parent. Yet I was on the honor roll frequently, was put in advance classes, even jumped grades. I now have the honor to serve in the US military as a communication specialist. WITHOUT that public education I would not be where I am now. My innate intelligence would still be there though and instead of being put to use serving the USA, it would be wasted.

That's fine, but on the other end of the spectrum, I have/had a friend who graduated as validitorian. 4 years after having graduated, she has failed in every endever she has tried for various personal reasons. Now we take another friend who bearly passed through highschool. At the time we were in school, D's were concidered passing (today I think they are concidered nearly as bad as an F). Now that he's out, he makes great money fixing cars, and I wouldn't trust my car with any other person. He's got magic hands for cars.

I hope this helps to explain why I feel it is in the best interests of the Coalition to educate their citizens.

[dark brandon]

It seems we are at an impass DarkBrandon. I can see that further discussion will not be needed. I appreciate your arguments but it looks like the only way to resolve the question is to wait and see what happens when and if Carl Prosek dies.

Until then I will maintain my views and I'm sure you will retain yours. I may of course change my view IF provided with sufficent evidence to do so. I submitted my views and the facts that gave me them. You gave me your views. Let's call it a draw and see what Palladium has in store for us.

I like you. I look forward to debating more with you in other subjects. Always nice to see someone you can enjoy debating with who realizes we'd just go in circles and circles.

[glitterboy2098]

how to get the vanguard legitimized.

1) initiate contact with the vanguard, a route of communication.

2) convince them to work closer with the High command, as a "Magic Division Reborn". in official paper work and org. charts, they are merely the RCSG special task force (which is true, in effect. the vanguard will provide a quantum leap in the RCSG's understanding of magic.)
not only will this keep the grunts in line (just flash the badge if stopped), but the normal army officers cannot argue with them (RCSG has some of the highest clearance.)

3) require a variation on the normal Psi-registering so you can keep track of them. (no tattoo's or anything, just the registery.)