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dnjscott wrote:Hey, am I imagining it, or does the Coalition Speclal Forces Soldier not get any bonuses, just a lot of skills? The book even takes pains to keep them from getting the Hand to Hand: Commando bonuses. Ouch.

no bonuses per say, other than some serious intense training.

and what are you talking about. they START OUT WITH HtH commando.

dnjscott wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

dnjscott wrote:Hey, am I imagining it, or does the Coalition Speclal Forces Soldier not get any bonuses, just a lot of skills? The book even takes pains to keep them from getting the Hand to Hand: Commando bonuses. Ouch.

no bonuses per say, other than some serious intense training.

and what are you talking about. they START OUT WITH HtH commando.

Uh, yeah, and they don't get the bonuses. +1 M.E. and +2D6 SDC TOMH. Only the Commando gets the martial arts commando bonuses, which is a little bit strange... why not just make them O.C.C. bonuses? Why are they over the Commando martial art?

they were intened to be OCC bonuses, and putting them under HtH commando was a misprint.

it says so quite clearly in the GM's Guide, it's an admited (and now corrected) error.

Error? not really ... more like a layout snafu.
Even though it was listed under the description of HtH Commando, those bonuses were clearly labeled as OCC bonuses.

BTW djnscott, why do you insist a human OCC should have bonuses to attributes and the like... it's not a rule for OCCs representing ordinary humans, and CS citizens are such... they are not juicers or crazies ... so why do you expect bonuses?

Special Forces are trained heavily to deal with just about any situation under the sun, so that's why they have so many skills. Green Berets only go out as 1-4 men groups, and they have to do things that platoons and companies can't....so they HAVE to know what to do with all manner of things. Plus, no one says you can't pick every physical skill in the book to boost your stats, that's what the physical training would do for em'.

A man is not made by his job, it's what he makes of his job that in turn makes him the man he is.

dnjscott wrote:As far as the attribute bonuses being attached to hand to hand commando, all of the other RIFTS specialized hand to hands in the RGMG get a bonus to SDC and at least one attribute (Akido, Judo, Jujitsu, etc.) and the bonses to the commando OCC are listed along with the style there, too-as well as in war campaign-connecting them is not particularly illogical...

As far as bonuses go, in the main book. Cyberknights have a bonus due to training, Wilderness Scouts have a stat bonus, Headhunters don't but they do in Canada, and of course and as I have mentioned, the Commandoes get a boost. So, I'm not really sure why people think its strange that the Spec Ops would too; I just thought it might be printed somewhere weird.

if you really want them to have bonuses, it's not much of a streah to give them the same bonuses given the generic Special Forces OCC in Rifts Mercenarys.

dnjscott wrote:**Sighs**

I don't want them to have anything, I was wondering if they did, since the book is laid out badly, and I got annoyed when people acted like I was asking if they got super powers, instead of something pretty common...

well. . . to answer your question then. . .

no, they do not get any special bonuses beyond having acess to a large number of skills and HtH Commando.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

dnjscott wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

dnjscott wrote:Hey, am I imagining it, or does the Coalition Speclal Forces Soldier not get any bonuses, just a lot of skills? The book even takes pains to keep them from getting the Hand to Hand: Commando bonuses. Ouch.

no bonuses per say, other than some serious intense training.

and what are you talking about. they START OUT WITH HtH commando.

Uh, yeah, and they don't get the bonuses. +1 M.E. and +2D6 SDC TOMH. Only the Commando gets the martial arts commando bonuses, which is a little bit strange... why not just make them O.C.C. bonuses? Why are they over the Commando martial art?

they were intened to be OCC bonuses, and putting them under HtH commando was a misprint.

it says so quite clearly in the GM's Guide, it's an admited (and now corrected) error.

So going back to the original question, "Why do the CS Commandos receive bonuses that the CS Special Forces hnits don't?", I'd say it comes down to their job descriptions. The CS Commandos are more akin to the US Army Rangers, focusing more on brute force and aggressive tactics. As such they are extremely tough hombres, thus getting the bonuses. On the other side of the equation we have the CS Special Forces, which are more akin to the US Army’s Green Barrettes, who are more of a thinking kind of fighting force relying more on skill and stealth to pull off jobs that would require several times more common soldiers. Consequently they are more heavy on the skills and special equipment.

And that is another thing you didn't factor in. The CS Special Forces guys have access to more special equipment that the Commandos. That beats an extra 7 SDC and a point of ME any day of the week!

You alos have to look at the SF soldier starting with Boxing as an OCC skill. That along gives you a nice bonus. The addition of cybernetics from the get go also is a big advantage for the SF. As far as skills go they have a huge advantage over the CS Commando. I think it was all a matter of balence. Face it, you can make a SF trooper the equal of a Body Fixer or Operator, and still be a bad ass in a suit of power armor, or as a hit and fade wilderness fighter.

The CS Commandoes and CS Special Forces are serious bad news for thier intended targets. Always take Prowl, and prowl often! Try to figure out your targets line of travel, lay down some traps. Don't stay to duke it out. Hit and run is your best friend. Be a constant menace. Do not show youself until the grand finally! Both of the O.C.C.'s are very potent, especially if played intelligently.

The CS Commandoes and CS Special Forces are serious bad news for thier intended targets. Always take Prowl, and prowl often! Try to figure out your targets line of travel, lay down some traps. Don't stay to duke it out. Hit and run is your best friend. Be a constant menace. Do not show youself until the grand finally! Both of the O.C.C.'s are very potent, especially if played intelligently.

The CS Commandoes and CS Special Forces are serious bad news for thier intended targets. Always take Prowl, and prowl often! Try to figure out your targets line of travel, lay down some traps. Don't stay to duke it out. Hit and run is your best friend. Be a constant menace. Do not show youself until the grand finally! Both of the O.C.C.'s are very potent, especially if played intelligently.

Shin Kenshiro wrote:Special Forces are trained heavily to deal with just about any situation under the sun, so that's why they have so many skills. Green Berets only go out as 1-4 men groups, and they have to do things that platoons and companies can't....so they HAVE to know what to do with all manner of things. Plus, no one says you can't pick every physical skill in the book to boost your stats, that's what the physical training would do for em'.

A man is not made by his job, it's what he makes of his job that in turn makes him the man he is.

Strange... my team numbered 6, not 4...

Sorry about the triple-post. If a moderator wants to delete the extras, that's ok by me.

Strange... my team numbered 6, not 4...

I have been corrected via several people from the Army, and I admit I made a mistake.[/quote]

dnjscott wrote:Hey, am I imagining it, or does the Coalition Speclal Forces Soldier not get any bonuses, just a lot of skills? The book even takes pains to keep them from getting the Hand to Hand: Commando bonuses. Ouch.

Maybe that's 'cause they aren't being trained by the Canadian Rangers?