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Posted: **Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:59 pm**

Maybe you could do it, and I fully understand why a juicer would want to....but one thing for certain will happen. Your eyes will see things that even the most hardened combat veteran on Rifts Earth couldn't believe, and you'd be witness to the death of a world and the death of billions. I'd be willing to bet on seeing 4 godlings come out....just insane godlings.

Posted: **Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:17 pm**

How do you KNOW you can trust Holye?

Posted: **Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:20 pm**

yeah ... just a matter of benefitting from the coming of the rifts... just a wittle matter of doing some time traveling. ..

I don't know if your GM is serious about that... but seeing who the guy making the proposition is... it might be wise to seriously envision the possibility that he's setting you up for some major shafting... he's occasionally your greatest villain... what reasons would he have to make you godlings?

Maybe I've played to much with nasty GMses, but I smell something very fishy.

Keep us informed of how things develop

Posted: **Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:25 pm**

Shin Kenshiro wrote:Maybe you could do it, and I fully understand why a juicer would want to....but one thing for certain will happen. Your eyes will see things that even the most hardened combat veteran on Rifts Earth couldn't believe, and you'd be witness to the death of a world and the death of billions. I'd be willing to bet on seeing 4 godlings come out....just insane godlings.

well, you wouldn't. you'd only see what was happeneing in your own little corner of it. in fact, you'd proally have to be well away from the carnage.

Posted: **Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:44 pm**

Piker Yoon wrote:Hehheh....excellent answers.

Of course I've considered these things, with Hoyle being the biggest chunk to chew on, but when we last "talked" he did say that he had been playing us at times, but it was on purpose, and for a greater purpose.

Y'see, for reasons unbeknownst to our party, we found out that we were somehow "anchors" for Rifts Earth's timeline. The events that we were involved in needed to happen a specific way so that Earth's timeline remained untouchable, but Hoyle was there to muff it all up.

His ultimate goal? The Great Cataclysm in the palm of his hand, of course. Manzer Hoyle means to start a new Pantheon once he captures the PPE/takes over the world, setting himself up as it's "First God". Thus, giving him the power to turn our party and a few choice NPCs into The Pantheon of the Red Holocaust.

So, here's the dilemma (or maybe rationalization?) that I've come up with.

Sure, we're waiting for millions of people to die during the Cataclysm, but that's going to happen whether we're there or not. Also, whether we're there or not, the world IS going to become the literal "Hell on Earth" scenario. (We've all read the books, right?) So, who's to say that, as a part of these New Gods, we can't do something to start the world anew?

Instead of ruling, why can't we become defenders of the people? Heck, who's to say Manzer Hoyle won't be a good God? Or at least one who's efficient? (He always treats you well, even when he's about to kick our arses...that poke.)

Also, in game terms, you have to admit it'd be damned interesting for our party to become rogue Godlings, who've turned their backs on their Pantheon?

It's members include Manzer Hoyle, who we know nothing about, other than we always get a little nervous when he's around. Then there's Mystic Tam, a Promethean Techno-Wizard, Salamane the chick from the Wormwood book, Z'dir, who's a badass Temporal Raider and Scorpio Flak, a being from the Palladium books.)

Man. I so want to be a Godling.

I'm a bad, bad man.

I MIGHT do it.

it would depend on the excat character I'm playing though.

some of my characters would.

some wouldn't.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:17 am**

well.... so you want to be a godling? go ahead.
Don't forget to put on the iron collar, chains and fetters and to gift Manzer with a whip.

you will have noticed that if things go as he says (and you'll be lucky if he doesn't try to shaft you as soon as he thinks he can get away with it and complete his objective) you'll be godlings, while he'll be a prime deity.

Essentially, you'll be his more or less willing slaves.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:22 pm**

I think I see where Lancer is going, and it's a good point.

You have to look through the eyes of your character and not your own. What's his/her alignment? His/her personality, and overall 'character?' In what direction does his/her moral compass point?

This Hoyle guy... your characters have to consider what his motivations have been in their dealings with him. Even in the instances where they know they've been played, did they agree with (or was happy with) the end results? In short, they have to decide whether or not the Megaverse can afford Hoyle to become the next Supreme Being. I know the lure of godling-level power is appealing, but the real issue isn't about the PCs -- it's about Hoyle becoming nigh-omnipotent.

Perhaps your characters don't care overly much about good versus evil and would have no problem with serving under Hoyle's reign. If that's the case, and they seek power as a means unto itself, then they'd be acting in character to accept the offer. If they feel otherwise about either one of those concepts then IMO they would adamantly refuse.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:19 pm**

I wouldn't do it, you keep saying the guy has messed with you in the past and you can't trust him. It sounds like a good way for him to get rid of you guys in one of the most violent time periods.

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:50 pm**

Writers Block wrote:Two words: ALIGNMENT...are your characters concerned with their godling status coming from all that death? Is the death feeding the transformation?

this might be coming from my alignment IRL. . . but I don't see how that has anything to do with alignment. I mean, it's going to happen no matter what, so. . .?

Second word: PURPOSE: why do they (not their players) want to become godlings? Then think about that answer in relation to the the alignment issue.

now THAT is the real question here.

Posted: **Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:51 am**

Piker Yoon wrote:Uh...I HAVE been looking at it through the eyes of my character, the entire time.

These are "his" questions & concerns, not mine.

Alright then, why does your character want to be a godling? What's his alignment/personality? Is he comfortable with the idea of benefiting from the tragic deaths of billions of people? Is he okay with the idea of Hoyle becoming a god in his own right? Does he mind being played? Is he so lustful for personal power that he's willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that they have been lied to and cheated on more than one occasion by the same person who's offering them godlinghood -- which in most thinking characters' eyes should run up more red flags than the Chinese national anthem?

The reason I said to look through your character's eyes is because when you get right down to it there's a lot of information about your character you haven't shared. It could be I've just missed it, but I don't remember reading it. That's why I asked the above questions.

You ask, "can you really distrust a man who's admitting to deception with mutual benefit?" Well, depending on your character's background, alignment/personality, and OCC the answer can easily be a firm "YES" -- mercs and adventurers in general aren't likely to trust someone who's swindled them in the past.

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