Zero Gravity Combat: Basic and Elite

[Nekira Sudacne]

yea, I would.

[MADMANMIKE]

..No. The power armor compensates for the lack of gravity, so you use your standard hand to hand and the PA bonuses only. Anything else is munchie.

-Mike >8]

[Nekira Sudacne]

..No. The power armor compensates for the lack of gravity, so you use your standard hand to hand and the PA bonuses only. Anything else is munchie.

-Mike >8]

? power armor compensates. . . where does it say that?

[MADMANMIKE]

..<sigh>

..People, anything that has it's own motivation, IE powerarmor, essentially negates the lack of gravity. If you want to move, you don't pick up your feet and move, you command the armor to take you there. It's a human shaped vehicle.

..So gravity or no, you're flying in that armor either way. No Zero G.



..I feel like I'm in Steelville....

-Mike

[MADMANMIKE]

..<sigh>

..People, anything that has it's own motivation, IE powerarmor, essentially negates the lack of gravity. If you want to move, you don't pick up your feet and move, you command the armor to take you there. It's a human shaped vehicle.

..So gravity or no, you're flying in that armor either way. No Zero G.



..I feel like I'm in Steelville....

-Mike

But a power armor designed to move a human being in Earth's gravity won't necessarily move the same way in zero-G, Mike. You're looking at this from a very singular viewpoint.

..What moron would take a non space worthy suit of power armor into space? It's not an illogical assumption.

-Mike

[Syndicate]

...well, I'd have to agree with MIKE. Zero-G combat (basic or elite) is meant for a character without addition augmentation to manuver in space (generally speaking). Akin to swimming, 0-G combat teaches the individual to use the lack of gravity to his advantage. Different muscles are used to propel oneself out of harm's way. Though the motions may be similar, piloting power armor (with it's manuvering thrusters and motion compensators) is different and thus negates the bonuses for 0-G combat. Can someone who knows how to ride a bicycle do all the tricks that someone with a motorcycle can? Can they just get on a motorcycle and even know how to drive it?

[Carl Gleba]

I agree with Mike on this one, actually on both his points. Power Armor in Phase world most likely has concealed micro thrusters or uses a CG field to move you around in space. Thus no need for zero-G combat. Now if your in plan old armor, or none at all, then your helpless unless you have some type of zero-g combat. Also helpless as in serious minuses on your combat skills in zero-G. You can use bulk heads and such to move around, but you lack the control or coordination to fight at all.

So for the initial question, I'd say "no".

Carl

[Nekira Sudacne]

It also has little to no respect for the laws of physics/orbital mechanics. I mean, I guess you can ignore all that if you're doing the uber-fantasy space opera stuff... but I prefer for my space settings to be a bit more grounded in reality if I'm running them.

That contragravity stuff is just a deus ex machina for Kevin to avoid really having to develop plausible space stuff.

and what's wrong with that? seriously, what?

[Nekira Sudacne]

and what's wrong with that? seriously, what?

Asking me, an aerospace engineer, what's wrong with that is like asking a doctor what's wrong with General Hospital.

dude, it's a game, leave your real-world experiance and knowalge at the door. it dosn't matter if it makes sense.

it works, and it's playable.

trying to patch the rules as they are is fixing something that isn't really broken.

sure, if they were trying to be realistic, then it's broken. but it's been stated as much they're not.

they're trying to make it quick, simple, so you can finish the fight and keep on playing.

not get bogged down in real world mechanics.

or if that bothers you. . .

just assume that all the math your trying to do has ALREADY been factored in, and the numerical bonuses are the result.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Unfortunately, Nekira, there comes a point where a person literally knows too much to not rewrite sections of the rules. Phalanx has reached one such point.

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm still smarting at the idea that Computer Programming the skill covers all advanced computer programming topics like AI, Distributed Programming, etc etc.

it's simple. if you can't do it ALL, you can't it it AT all in Palladium's books worlds.

[Svartalf]

Actually, whether or not wearing PA obviates the specific difficulties of operating in a zero G environment, I believe that HtH and zero G combat are mutually exclusive skills, you use one OR the other at a given time.

So I agree with mike, stacking them is munchie

[Nekira Sudacne]

Actually, whether or not wearing PA obviates the specific difficulties of operating in a zero G environment, I believe that HtH and zero G combat are mutually exclusive skills, you use one OR the other at a given time.

So I agree with mike, stacking them is munchie

and what's wrong with that?

[Svartalf]

Actually, whether or not wearing PA obviates the specific difficulties of operating in a zero G environment, I believe that HtH and zero G combat are mutually exclusive skills, you use one OR the other at a given time.

So I agree with mike, stacking them is munchie

and what's wrong with that?

the simple fact that either you're in a situation where you have the ease of movement to use your HtH bonuses, and then 0GC does not apply, OR you're in a situation where you must apply the special tricks learned from 0GC, and then it means that you cannot benefit from your in-grav HtH bonuses

[Nekira Sudacne]

Actually, whether or not wearing PA obviates the specific difficulties of operating in a zero G environment, I believe that HtH and zero G combat are mutually exclusive skills, you use one OR the other at a given time.

So I agree with mike, stacking them is munchie

and what's wrong with that?

the simple fact that either you're in a situation where you have the ease of movement to use your HtH bonuses, and then 0GC does not apply, OR you're in a situation where you must apply the special tricks learned from 0GC, and then it means that you cannot benefit from your in-grav HtH bonuses

I disagree.

while the jets and servos will help, the fact that you and your opponent is in 0 gee does not change. it makes sense to stack them, which gives thouse with both an edge they deserve.

[Svartalf]

Incidentally, the Phase World book (well, my printing of it, anyway) combines the Space Movement and Space Combat skills into one, with no listed bonuses. I think the intent was to simplify things...

D'oh ...

Unfortunately, Zerebus, the thread was dealing wiith the way such skills are handled as per MiO... I personally prefer the way things are dealt with in PhW too... but we must talk on the same ground as the others.

BTW, Nekira, if you take a look at MiO, p15, at the bottom of the combat, gravity section, you'll read ih as many words that, while it is possible to know both types of combat, "bonuses are NOT cumulative" (emphasis from the book itself)

[Svartalf]

*takes foot out of mouth*
Sorry Zerebus...

Actually, when you read those skills as set in the GMG, they sure look like they are designed to be on top of HtH, which would mean that piloting PA in space would effectively call for stacking the 3 skills ...

looks munchie, sounds munchie, feels munchie, tastes munchie... but definitely looks like it's still the spirit of the rules.

[Borast]

*ting*
*ting*

Ok... here's my two cents... (look at top of post)

Does Zero-G combat stack with PA training...

Definitive Answer: Yes and No...
If you are trained in (say) Silverhawk piloting, no. The Silverhawk training itself compensates for the lack of gravity, since it is designed for use in open space.
If you are trained in (say) Ground Pounder piloting, kinda... You are more aware of the consequences of firing non-laser weapons while floating free, and are better able to compensate for being IN 0-G.
Typically, Zero-G training is used for low/no gravity situations INSIDE tight quarters, however, it's use in "free space" logically (there's that word again) would be covered as well. It teaches you the tricks of HOW to manoeuver/fight (fisticuffs) in zero-G.
When wearing "infantry" power armour, the best use of Zero-G training is to eliminate or reduce penalties for being in 0-G. (After all, even a particle beam weapon is going to impart some motion on the person firing it!)

[Borast]

All of you, read Mutants In Orbit.

But it sucks.

Quite possibly in YOUR opinion, personally, I LIKED it!

[Nekira Sudacne]

All that matters to you is wrong

If you know next to nothing about spaceflight, I guess MiO could be considered "good."

just assume that all that stuff was factored into the given stats. . . seriously, do so.

[Nekira Sudacne]

just assume that all that stuff was factored into the given stats. . . seriously, do so.

That's rather difficult to do when spaceships are listed as traveling at speeds slower than orbital velocity.

maybe orbital velocity is different then

seriously, there is 0 gain in re-working the rules to better conform to real-world math.

and it's too much stuff to keep track of.

I keep hearing about people how make notebooks chalk full of reworked houserules, just so they can satisfy their "suspension of disbelive"

well, that's about 1000 hours of your life you wasted.

I can have just as much fun playing with the unrealistic rules as you do with your "realsitic" rules.

more in fact. the time you spend making them more realsitic I spend playing and having even more fun

(unless you actually ENJOY reinventing the wheel, but then you have a whole nother set of problems to worry about )

[Nekira Sudacne]

I guess I just think that if Palladium is going to write a book about a subject, they should do some basic background research so that it is at least plausible.

they wern't writing a book ABOUT the subject, just one that involves it.

and also, this is my honest question, all jokes aside:

what do you gain from changing them like that? truely?

[Borast]

All that matters to you is wrong

If you know next to nothing about spaceflight, I guess MiO could be considered "good."

I have no background in engineering or orbital mechanics. However, I do have an "informed civilian's" level of knowledge about spaceflight.

DESPITE what I know, I still enjoyed it, just like I enjoyed Star Fleet Battles, just like I enjoyed the Star Wars movie, and many another space movie or cartoon where they are flying "aerodynamically" and you can hear engine noise and weapons fire.

The trick is to take what you know, and throw it out the window, or at least to "fix" things in your own games. That's what house rules are for!