Which book suffers from power creep the most?

Salubri · Unread post by **Salubri** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm

the title really says it all, I've heard some about the "power creep" but which book is the most obvious example of it? and, does it make older books obsolete?
We're just starting to play and i figured i'd pick up a few books but don't want to waste my time and money if the book i pick up will be overshadowed by newer books.

Nekira Sudacne · Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:35 pm

Coalition War Campaign.

forget what they have in the main books.

the "light" CS armor has 100 MDC, the "heavy" has 200 and is exoceletion that gives them enhanced strength.

and the new PA's and robots, and APCs make the old stuff look like crap.

I love it :ok:

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:48 pm

I agree about Coalition War Campaign... they're almost the equal of the stuph in Phase World now... actually they surpass Phase World in a couple of areas... weird.

Pox · Unread post by **Pox** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:22 am

Lord Splynncryth wrote:Nothing was more ridiculous than tech levels in South America.

Agreed...I know alot of people like CJC but the stuff he put out was rediculous...How the hell is the Megaversal legion's Counterstrike PA supposed to have that many grenades? I wont even address the Carnisaur line of bots from the kittani...frickin thing looked like it was peeing on the Carnivore tank...and another thing... :badbad:

I dont mind the upgrades that the CS (and not because I am a CS-fan) because they were supposed to be the baddest bunch of hombres in NA and after time...people were just walking over them and they turned into a joke unto themselves...who is laughing now?

Esckey · Unread post by **Esckey** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:47 am

Tie between CWC and SA2. SA1 wasn't bad, most of the tech didn't creep anywhere. Just the OCCs.

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:59 am

Pox wrote:
Lord Splynncryth wrote:Nothing was more ridiculous than tech levels in South America.

Agreed...I know alot of people like CJC but the stuff he put out was rediculous...How the hell is the Megaversal legion's Counterstrike PA supposed to have that many grenades? I wont even address the Carnisaur line of bots from the kittani...frickin thing looked like it was peeing on the Carnivore tank...and another thing...

I just don't understand your attitude ... sure that tech is BIG, but it's supposed to. It all comes from civilisations that are centuries ahead of Rifts Earth. the Counterstrike has big grenade cap? well, those grenades are probably miniaturised to start with, and remember the magazines are back mounted, not part of the gun proper. the Carnosaur bots are "peeing" on the carnivore tank? well, given the CJC created the Carnivore too, he's entitled to, and since the sploogs and NE are bitter rivals, the former had better have tech that can compete, or they would be outclassed out of being rivals

I dont mind the upgrades that the CS (and not because I am a CS-fan) because they were supposed to be the baddest bunch of hombres in NA and after time...people were just walking over them and they turned into a joke unto themselves...who is laughing now?

Welll... I don't fully agree there either... it's weird the CS got such a colossal upgrade, while the NGR stays stuck with some stuff that is somewhat ludicrous.

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:05 am

Writers Block wrote:Phase World was weak. The point of a superior tech culture is to have superior tech. Much of it is not even 25% above Earth. I mean, at least SOME stats could be way superior without too much game balance effect (how about eclip capacity of 5 times more or such).

The ships were even worse...the aliens bland, and the NPC's were little more that a mass of higher stats and MDC with some thin class or racial excuses for their greater resistance to PC might..classic cases of escalation compensation; the "Resist Power Creep" spell in full effect...

Actually, if I believe some of the things Maryann has been telling, CJ DID intend the tech to be *really* bigger than earth's, but his stuff got brutally downsized by Kevin.... then again, I'm not sure I really want to contemplate trying to bring earth characters in a PhW environment where the strength of the stuff would be roughly twice what ended up published... or worse, having a Cosmo Knight from that environment com to Earth...

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:12 am

I would say the CWC. The CS went from a decent technological power to a powerhouse almost overnight which I did not like. The book has more power creeep than South America 1 and 2.

RoadWarriorFWaNK · Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:17 pm

i dont suffer from power creep. I enjoy every minute of it.

Thanks! I'll be here all week, folks!

Hav0k · Unread post by **Hav0k** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:33 pm

memorax wrote:I would say the CWC. The CS went from a decent technological power to a powerhouse almost overnight which I did not like. The book has more power creeep than South America 1 and 2.

Ok, a lot of you state that SA 1 & 2 are power creep books....

Does this mean that they can't be used? What about a campaign developping ONLY in South America? Would that make sense?

Can someone think of a reason why SA technology would be so advanced compared to other regions? (a secret technology source from another dimension, a secret lab, etc...?)

Dustin Fireblade · Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:46 pm

Therumancer wrote:
That said, I tend to agree with the power level of South America. I think CJ went a bit overboard with some of the mecha in that one. For the most part there aren't any places that are developing or innovating technology. The CS started out with US military tech to begin with. I can't see a bunch of aging mecha from South American Bananna Republics being the equal of the old US military tech, never mind the new stuff.

.

>>>----Therumancer--->

Agree with most of what you had said there 'cept that part I left. I think there was mention of Argentina in Chaos Earth becoming part of the "Mega-Damage Club." Also they had their own version of the Lone Star TexAm facility going as well.

NoJack · Unread post by **NoJack** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:18 pm

Only because they are the anti-thesis of power creep. Australia was interesting, but Japan... hey I'm a 50' full conversion dragon borg, but hey my hand to hand is still SDC because I used to be human... Uhm... yeah.

Power creep, natural progression, whatever you want to call it it makes some sense, I'm just sorry that the NGR got left out of the upgrade club. They have the tech, and the motivation to improve, they also havethe open mindset to try new things.

Everybody (real roleplayers mostly) screams and cries that either a) magic is far superior or b) magic needs to be re-worked so that it is superior. Then as soon as the ante is upped they cry foul as the tech naturally goes up to compete. It's just like any arms race.

Display-Name-Alpha · Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:54 am

OK, the most powerful 'power creep" book has got to be the Federation of Magic.

Give me a High Mage with the spells Enchant Weapon: Minor, and Time Hole... Ill make you something that can cripple a tank in one blow. The ability to create any type of magic item with enough PPE materials, and time is by far the MOST powerful thing ive ever come by.

Or better yet... Ensorcel a cosmo knight, and bond them to the damage of a rifle... thats alot of energy damage.

One that comes close, is Conversion Book 2, the Godling RCC. The ability to gain the benefits of TWO or more magic classes is astounding. Screw all of that other junk that they get... Make em a high mage, mystic kuzuna, spell thief. And you have the awesomest creator ever.

Hav0k · Unread post by **Hav0k** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:02 pm

Godly Cheese wrote:OK, the most powerful 'power creep" book has got to be the Federation of Magic.

The old one, or the REVISED version?

I just noticed on PB website that there is a NEW version of that book.

Anyone knows what changed?

Nekira Sudacne · Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:24 pm

Hav0k wrote:
Godly Cheese wrote:OK, the most powerful 'power creep" book has got to be the Federation of Magic.

The old one, or the REVISED version?

I just noticed on PB website that there is a NEW version of that book.

Anyone knows what changed?

The revised one just has a post SoT update and more info on Dweomer.

and in it's place, all the new spells were cut out :nh:

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:15 pm

BrokenChild wrote:How about this for powercreep: "World Book 8 Naruni 2nd Wave"

They have technology in there like the Hammer wich makes the Glitter boy look like a joke 8d4x10 dual burst plasma launchers, nearly 1,000 short range missiles & mini-missiles and a 900 mdc mainbody. Or The Reaper which has over 650 some smart-micro-missiles which it can fire in volleys of 32! Not to mention the Wrath of God Destroyer, but its not really powercreep since nobody's ever gonna have 3.2billion credits and if you do buy the thing and try to pilot it, it eats your mind then goes on a rampage killing everyone who ever gave you so much as a dirty look! How can you say no to that! Sign me up!

The Hammer makes the GB look ridiculous? have you looked seriously at the size difference between the two? If I wanted to make a meaningful comparison, I'd do it with the BIG bots fom Triax, Japan and CWC..
Also don't exaggerate. a dual plasm burst is nonly *6*d4x10, meaning that the single 3d4x10 burst is, and at burst level, less powerful than a boom gun ... yeah, massed firepower has that effect. and wher'e did you find 1000 missiles? I managed to count only 172, of which only 12 where short range, the rest being mini missiles.

As for the Wrath of God ... well... It's more a GM plot device than a piece of equipment, since I don't know if there are many serious campaigns where players could for off 3 billion cred, and if any player wants to forfeit his character by having him grafted into that thing ... well, I guess it would be forfeit all right because as a GM, I would likely put the newly made destroyer on my NPC list, please create another character.

and hey, high time the 3 galaxies really showed their tech superiority over rifts earth..

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:51 pm

BrokenChild wrote:[

Ah, you've got me! . But I'm pretty darn sure it has a scary amount of missiles, if you add up the payloads in each of the launchers, plus the books says that each of the weapon arms can fire simultaneously with full bonuses and since I think each arm can launch 16 MMs that would be a volley of 32d6x10 yeah? Then again, memories are fuzzy things eh? I could be way off.

Well ... maybe my lookover was too cursory, but the Hammer robot (the big one that is just before the Reaper and looks like the Razor PA's big brother) has only 3 missile launcher I could find : a big chest one with 12 SR missiles and 96 Mini missiles, and 2 shoulder ones with 32 mini missiles each. Yes, both the Hammer's arms can fire at the same time, with bonuses, but only one weapon each at a time, and no, they don't contain missiles. I'd wonder if you weren't mistaking with the Reaper, except that the reaper's arms contain many more missiles than that.