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It states in Vampire Kingdoms that vampires can be damaged by a Dragon's physical attacks because a dragon is considered a supernatural creature of magic.

Now, I'm assuming this applies to all supernatural creatures of magic. Beyond that, is there a difference between a supernatural creature of magic and a supernatural creature? Is the latter just a shortened description of the former? For example, a Mega-Hero from HU2 is a minor supernatural being, with supernatural PS. But, are they also creatures of magic?

Also, anyone know about non-supernatural creatures with supernatural PS? Such as that gained through enhancements and such. For example, a mutant from HU2 transferred over that has the supernatural strength power.


I'm thinking about running a Rifts campaign, but some players want to keep playing their HU2 characters. So, we figured we'd just port them over somehow.

vampires are only damaged in hand-to-hand by creatures of magic. Dragons, faeries, sphinx, etc. While the GM might rule that supernatural creatures such as demons could also do damage (it would make sense) it certainly wouldn't apply to just anybody with supernatural strength (there are a lot of them out there).

It's the magic that does it, not the fact that they're really strong.

That's kind of what I assumed. Thanks.

Jason Richards wrote:vampires are only damaged in hand-to-hand by creatures of magic. Dragons, faeries, sphinx, etc. While the GM might rule that supernatural creatures such as demons could also do damage (it would make sense) it certainly wouldn't apply to just anybody with supernatural strength (there are a lot of them out there).

It's the magic that does it, not the fact that they're really strong.

Supernatural creatures are beefed up by magic.
While a non-supernatural creature with supernatural strength like a giant wouldn't be able to harm a vampire with it's bare hands I see no reason why a supernatural creature like a demon would not.

Jason Richards wrote:vampires are only damaged in hand-to-hand by creatures of magic. Dragons, faeries, sphinx, etc. While the GM might rule that supernatural creatures such as demons could also do damage (it would make sense) it certainly wouldn't apply to just anybody with supernatural strength (there are a lot of them out there).

It's the magic that does it, not the fact that they're really strong.

Where do you take that from? beside the fact that the difference between creatures of magic and supernatural beings has never been any too clear (beside the fact that the supernatural are generally Evil and/or closely tied to, or directly coming from other dimensions, not that either of these traits has ever been officially endorsed), it has always been my understanding that any supernatural being or creature of magic (such as say, a werebeing or demon) was able to hurt a vampire by use of its hand to hand or magical abilities. of course, that sentence on VK p 37 does introduce a bit of uncertainty ... but since there is no clarifiaction anywhere, I put it down to bad formulation and worse editing.

Now, if you have a serious criterion to tell supernatural creatures that are NOT creatures of magic ... (I suppose that gargoyles and Brodkil are prime suspects) well, I am open.

svartalf wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:vampires are only damaged in hand-to-hand by creatures of magic. Dragons, faeries, sphinx, etc. While the GM might rule that supernatural creatures such as demons could also do damage (it would make sense) it certainly wouldn't apply to just anybody with supernatural strength (there are a lot of them out there).

It's the magic that does it, not the fact that they're really strong.

Where do you take that from? beside the fact that the difference between creatures of magic and supernatural beings has never been any too clear (beside the fact that the supernatural are generally Evil and/or closely tied to, or directly coming from other dimensions, not that either of these traits has ever been officially endorsed), it has always been my understanding that any supernatural being or creature of magic (such as say, a werebeing or demon) was able to hurt a vampire by use of its hand to hand or magical abilities. of course, that sentence on VK p 37 does introduce a bit of uncertainty ... but since there is no clarifiaction anywhere, I put it down to bad formulation and worse editing.

Now, if you have a serious criterion to tell supernatural creatures that are NOT creatures of magic ... (I suppose that gargoyles and Brodkil are prime suspects) well, I am open.

I'm not sure what your problem is with what I said. It's the magic that hurts vampires, not the amount of strength. Thus, demons and dragons and werebeasts and faeries and other such supernatural creatures can do damage, a Titan Juicer, Borg, Gigante, or super hero with Supernatural Strength could not.

Lancer wrote:A smart vampire would escape if he gets hit and damaged by just a simple punch of a non-vampire character.

Why?
They still have regenerative powers that make Wolverine look like a hemophiliac.

I believe Supernatural PS would do half damage to Vampires because that aspect of their being is Supernatural just like a creature of magic or a supernatural being otherwise it would be called Superhuman Plus strength. That or Supernatural creature P.S. would be called Magic Strength which it is not.

Preacher wrote:I believe Supernatural PS would do half damage to Vampires because that aspect of their being is Supernatural just like a creature of magic or a supernatural being otherwise it would be called Superhuman Plus strength. That or Supernatural creature P.S. would be called Magic Strength which it is not.

Or maybe they just don't want to add another (Would that be fifth or sixth?) strength category?

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Preacher wrote:I believe Supernatural PS would do half damage to Vampires because that aspect of their being is Supernatural just like a creature of magic or a supernatural being otherwise it would be called Superhuman Plus strength. That or Supernatural creature P.S. would be called Magic Strength which it is not.

Or maybe they just don't want to add another (Would that be fifth or sixth?) strength category?

Possibly but it is still Supernatural P.S. which is what demons and Dragons have only stronger.

Preacher wrote:Possibly but it is still Supernatural P.S. which is what demons and Dragons have only stronger.

However there is nothing magical giving a Titan Juicer supernatural strength.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Preacher wrote:Possibly but it is still Supernatural P.S. which is what demons and Dragons have only stronger.

However there is nothing magical giving a Titan Juicer supernatural strength.

Well, that's true.
This is the kind of thing that makes me wish we could get an official answer from Palladium on.
My go by is the passage from Skraypers pg. 157 under Supernatural PS. which equates the Supernatural P.S. Power to that of supernatural creatures such as Dragons and Supernatural Monsters.

A "Creature of Magic" is a being that can not exist without magic (SDC or MDC). It can be an animal or sentient being. (ie: Faerie)

A "Supernatural Creature" is a jugernaught enhanced and/or powered by magic. (ie: Dwarvling)

A "Supernatural Creature of Magic" is a magical jugernaught. (ie: Dragon)

However, a being with Supernatural Strength can not necessarily harm a being like a vampire, hurt, yes, harm, no. Your Titan juicer can hurt the vamp (as in Hey, I actually FELT that!), but will not do any damage (unless he's using silver brass knuckles, wooded "gloves", etc...). But at the same time, the Vampire will definately be off balance, since you're literally knocking him/her around the room.

Borast wrote:A "Creature of Magic" is a being that can not exist without magic (SDC or MDC). It can be an animal or sentient being. (ie: Faerie)

A "Supernatural Creature" is a jugernaught enhanced and/or powered by magic. (ie: Dwarvling)

A "Supernatural Creature of Magic" is a magical jugernaught. (ie: Dragon)

.

I understand all that and even conceed that their is evidense to support your point.
I am just saying that the Power of Supernatural PS by its name and description makes that aspect of a suber being the same as a magical being and my evidense id the description in Skraypers which in my opinion supports that notion.

Jason Richards wrote:vampires are only damaged in hand-to-hand by creatures of magic. Dragons, faeries, sphinx, etc. While the GM might rule that supernatural creatures such as demons could also do damage (it would make sense) it certainly wouldn't apply to just anybody with supernatural strength (there are a lot of them out there).

It's the magic that does it, not the fact that they're really strong.

Aren't Demons magic creatures?

Lancer wrote:True, but you should look beyond the "regeneration powers"

Vampires are not stuped.

Vampires pray upon the weak because they know that the "vampire" can over come any danger that a simple mortal can dish out.

The moment the simple mortal becomes a danger to the vampire. (water, wood, holy symbol) that means would be taken out or the vampire would leave and attack the next victem. Otherwise, and very rearly the vampire might try to hit and run. but to put themselves into that kind of risk would mean that that person is the only food source for that vampire.

Now, thinking of that... Why would a vampire attack or battle an "equal"?

I also think the only time a vampire would fight to the death would be by his coffin, and thinking of that why would anybody try to kill a vampire with their bare fists, when it would be wise to stake them.

Well that all depends on if they are the animalistic wild vampires or not.
Most of the ones people run into on Rifts Earth are.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:vampires are only damaged in hand-to-hand by creatures of magic. Dragons, faeries, sphinx, etc. While the GM might rule that supernatural creatures such as demons could also do damage (it would make sense) it certainly wouldn't apply to just anybody with supernatural strength (there are a lot of them out there).

It's the magic that does it, not the fact that they're really strong.

Aren't Demons magic creatures?

That's why I included them, but I can't off the top of my head think of them being mentioned as "creatures of magic". They're just "supernatural creatures".

Jason Richards wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:vampires are only damaged in hand-to-hand by creatures of magic. Dragons, faeries, sphinx, etc. While the GM might rule that supernatural creatures such as demons could also do damage (it would make sense) it certainly wouldn't apply to just anybody with supernatural strength (there are a lot of them out there).

It's the magic that does it, not the fact that they're really strong.

Aren't Demons magic creatures?

That's why I included them, but I can't off the top of my head think of them being mentioned as "creatures of magic". They're just "supernatural creatures".

Hmm nested quotes gotta love them. That's odd considering how magic inclined and how some of their natural abilities are magic in nature. I figure any creature that has a natural ability that is magical then they're likely a being of magic.

Most RCC's state weither they are a supernatural creature or a magical creature. If all else fails look on page 10 and 11 of the RGMG, under creatures of magic, and demons respectivly.

So the jury is still out on this one. It seems there is evidence to both ways of thinking, and only an official answer will serve to finalize the argument.

Beyond that. For those that believe anything with supernatural PS, regardless of origin of that PS, can damage vampires, I ask one question. What damage do you use? The supernatural strength tables, divided in half. Or use the dragon damage table from VK as a template, maybe modifying for extreme amounts of PS?

Bohica wrote:Operative word my friend is "Our".
If you enjoy cannon vamps in your game, then don't forget your water pistols...

I agree. In MY games, the only thing water does too vampires is get em wet.

Temporalmage wrote:

Bohica wrote:Operative word my friend is "Our".
If you enjoy cannon vamps in your game, then don't forget your water pistols...

I agree. In MY games, the only thing water does too vampires is get em wet.

A real shame the Catholic church and it's holy water generators disappeared with the coming of the Rifts...

May I notice that the ability to create holy water is noted for neither OCC to mention?

Also, the Priest OCC from Russia seems to be a skills only, non-mystic one. Is holy water used by the Orthodox church?

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but in the old Q&A dont it say a mega juicer can hurt a vamp because of his str?

quester wrote:I would say if the supernatural strength is "natural" or what the character is born with it should damage Vamps.
If the supernatural strength is "unnatural" or robotic/artificially augmented (ie Juicers) then it does not damage Vamps.

It's a good argument, but not in line with canon text.

Do what you want, but it has to be magic-ish to be in line with the books.

xia_nt wrote:Ummmm. question.... VK states the shadow of the cross inflicts damage to vamps. does any one else agree the the shadow of other holy symbols should as well(the ank, the star of david, the penticle, the Thor hammer symbol,ect)?

"should", yes.
"Does", no.

If you could use any holy symbol to fight vampires, what's to stop someone from saying "I worship the God of socks, so vampires are afraid of my socks!!" or even better "I worship the God of Air, so vampires have to run away from the air!" or even even better. "I worship the God of Vampires so vampires have to run away from themselves!"
a cross works because a cross works. there is no rationale behind it.

A hammer works as well as a cross.

Personally, I'd make holy symbols useless unless the person wielding the things actually had faith in the faith behind it. I'd also make them vulnerable to fire, rather than water; otherwise the stench would gag a maggot off a gut-wagon, and I give people bonuses to save since they're too busy holding in their dinner than to look at the vampire's eyes.

They are vulnerable to fire as well. Magic fire does half damage and regular fire is how you dispose of them once you overcome their hit points.

Tyciol wrote:I'm not a Buddhist, or well studied in it, but I don't ever recall anyone ever asking Buddha to 'save' them. Perhaps guide them, show them the path to non violence, but not save them from death. Why exactly would someone prescribing to a religion that involves reincarnation be so obsessed with avoiding death as to weep for their 'peaceful' teacher to come smite a vampire?

You could probably do it with all forms of Christianity, Wicca, Jewish, forms of passive Paganism and Islam, and maybe Hindu. I don't know much Hindu beyond CB2, so I need help there.

Erm... why only "passive" paganism? "In the name of Thor, I smite the vampire!!" **BOOM!!!**