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can TK be used outside of a robot/power armor if one has a clear view (with their eyes, not with sensors), of the object they are manipulationg?

Like someone in Glitterboy power armor wanting to move the giant barrel and doesn't/can't use the GB arms.

DarkBrandon wrote:can TK be used outside of a robot/power armor if one has a clear view (with their eyes, not with sensors), of the object they are manipulationg?

Like someone in Glitterboy power armor wanting to move the giant barrel and doesn't/can't use the GB arms.

Yes.

DarkBrandon wrote:can TK be used outside of a robot/power armor if one has a clear view (with their eyes, not with sensors), of the object they are manipulationg?

Like someone in Glitterboy power armor wanting to move the giant barrel and doesn't/can't use the GB arms.

No. TK is a psionic power. If the psycic is inside the power armor or robot vehicle they can not use their powers to affect anything on the outside of the vehicle. Vice versa is also true. The Glitterboy in question would have to crack open the seals for his TK powers to work. This is covered on page 10 of Source Book one. And I believe again in the RGMG, but I'm not sure what page.

Temporalmage wrote:

DarkBrandon wrote:can TK be used outside of a robot/power armor if one has a clear view (with their eyes, not with sensors), of the object they are manipulationg?

Like someone in Glitterboy power armor wanting to move the giant barrel and doesn't/can't use the GB arms.

No. TK is a psionic power. If the psycic is inside the power armor or robot vehicle they can not use their powers to affect anything on the outside of the vehicle. Vice versa is also true. The Glitterboy in question would have to crack open the seals for his TK powers to work. This is covered on page 10 of Source Book one. And I believe again in the RGMG, but I'm not sure what page.

no. . . in the game masters guide, it says you CAN use psionics though armor. stated clearly with exsamples.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Temporalmage wrote:

DarkBrandon wrote:can TK be used outside of a robot/power armor if one has a clear view (with their eyes, not with sensors), of the object they are manipulationg?

Like someone in Glitterboy power armor wanting to move the giant barrel and doesn't/can't use the GB arms.

No. TK is a psionic power. If the psycic is inside the power armor or robot vehicle they can not use their powers to affect anything on the outside of the vehicle. Vice versa is also true. The Glitterboy in question would have to crack open the seals for his TK powers to work. This is covered on page 10 of Source Book one. And I believe again in the RGMG, but I'm not sure what page.

no. . . in the game masters guide, it says you CAN use psionics though armor. stated clearly with exsamples.

Yes, and as it states on page 86 of the RGMG, : "psionically manifested physical attacks (energy attakcs, psi-sword, telekinesis, etc.) can be directed against the vehicle itself." This passage is refering to attacking someone that is inside of a robot vehicle. If you can not attack the person inside of the vehicle, from the outside. And instead only effect the outside of the vehicle itself, then the opposite would of course be true. You could not effect anything on the outside of the vehicle from the inside.

Read #2 on that page.
Power Armor is the same as body armor. There is no interference.
The guy in the Glitterboy can use his TK on something outside.
Robots are a bit more complicated.

Dr. Doom III wrote:Read #2 on that page.
Power Armor is the same as body armor. There is no interference.
The guy in the Glitterboy can use his TK on something outside.
Robots are a bit more complicated.

Yes, but the Glitter Boy is refered to as both power armor AND a robot. The books ain't to specific on which catagory it falls into, and so the harshest ruling would logically follow. TK could not be done.

Temporalmage wrote:Yes, but the Glitter Boy is refered to as both power armor AND a robot. The books ain't to specific on which catagory it falls into, and so the harshest ruling would logically follow. TK could not be done.

It's Power Armor.

Lord Splynncryth wrote:Good to see you around Doom, it's been way too long

Thanks.

Bohica wrote:So, an NGR soldier in Triax EBA looking through the lenses of cameras mounted on the helmet and viewing the screen in front of them/projected hologram-whatever- is considered to have direct line of sight to use TK to pick up a rock?
But if you're in a "robot" you can't use the power?

Yep.
Magic too.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Bohica wrote:So, an NGR soldier in Triax EBA looking through the lenses of cameras mounted on the helmet and viewing the screen in front of them/projected hologram-whatever- is considered to have direct line of sight to use TK to pick up a rock?
But if you're in a "robot" you can't use the power?

Yep.
Magic too.

The Ethics committee, and the Bar Association, has ganged up on you and revoked your license!

Magic, and the psionic power of TK can not be used while inside a robot. And I believe that the only power usable through video cameras would be Telemechanics, and then only on the camera.

Temporalmage wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Bohica wrote:So, an NGR soldier in Triax EBA looking through the lenses of cameras mounted on the helmet and viewing the screen in front of them/projected hologram-whatever- is considered to have direct line of sight to use TK to pick up a rock?
But if you're in a "robot" you can't use the power?

Yep.
Magic too.

The Ethics committee, and the Bar Association, has ganged up on you and revoked your license!

Magic, and the psionic power of TK can not be used while inside a robot. And I believe that the only power usable through video cameras would be Telemechanics, and then only on the camera.

Well, What I'm asking for is if like, someone in a spider skull walker, looks out one of the glass window eyes and sees his friend about to get creemed and wants to help. He's not near any controls, but can see clearly the giant boulder behind the assalant. In this example, would he have to step outside the spider skull walker, or would it be enough that he has a clear plain view, through a window (not with cameras or sensors) of both the target and the item to be manipulated?

DarkBrandon wrote:

Temporalmage wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Bohica wrote:So, an NGR soldier in Triax EBA looking through the lenses of cameras mounted on the helmet and viewing the screen in front of them/projected hologram-whatever- is considered to have direct line of sight to use TK to pick up a rock?
But if you're in a "robot" you can't use the power?

Yep.
Magic too.

The Ethics committee, and the Bar Association, has ganged up on you and revoked your license!

Magic, and the psionic power of TK can not be used while inside a robot. And I believe that the only power usable through video cameras would be Telemechanics, and then only on the camera.

Well, What I'm asking for is if like, someone in a spider skull walker, looks out one of the glass window eyes and sees his friend about to get creemed and wants to help. He's not near any controls, but can see clearly the giant boulder behind the assalant. In this example, would he have to step outside the spider skull walker, or would it be enough that he has a clear plain view, through a window (not with cameras or sensors) of both the target and the item to be manipulated?

Good example. As outlined on page 86 of the RGMG, "psionically manifested physical attacks (energy attacks, psi-sword, telekinesis, etc) can be directed against the vehicle itself." The passage is discussing what psionic powers can effect those inside vehicles and giant robots. The opposite, effecting those outside from inside, would conversly be identical. Thus the pilot in your example would NOT be able to effect anything on the outside of the skull walker. Sorry, pray for your comrade.
As for magic or other paranormal powers, Sourcebook 1 page 10 tells us that no paranormal power can pass through power armor or robots either. There are of course exceptions to this rule. The spells that are exceptions state directly in thier discription that they can effect those inside the vehicles, or pass through MDC structures. (As is the case of 4-D transformation and D-phase)

Lucky wrote:this is another case where i would excersize my right to GM's discretion.

i would allow it. sourcebook be damned.

And despite my disagreance with you....I'd defend your right to play YOUR game YOUR way!!

Writers Block wrote:

Bohica wrote:This seems to explain why mages are always seen in gas masks and not EBA. They must interact with their environ to affect it. Same for psi...

I did consider having the spikes on CS Psy-stalkers helmets to help them keep in "touch" with the pack. A kind of antennae. But I knew my players would just use it against me.

I have a psi stalker who has them as cosmetic implants...real, screw into skull slot, spikes...

Aint' they in the bionic sourcebook?? Seems oddly familier...

Temporalmage wrote: The Ethics committee, and the Bar Association, has ganged up on you and revoked your license!

Magic, and the psionic power of TK can not be used while inside a robot. And I believe that the only power usable through video cameras would be Telemechanics, and then only on the camera.

Sorry but EBA and Power armor are not robots.

Temporalmage wrote:Good example. As outlined on page 86 of the RGMG, "psionically manifested physical attacks (energy attacks, psi-sword, telekinesis, etc) can be directed against the vehicle itself." The passage is discussing what psionic powers can effect those inside vehicles and giant robots. The opposite, effecting those outside from inside, would conversly be identical. Thus the pilot in your example would NOT be able to effect anything on the outside of the skull walker. Sorry, pray for your comrade.
As for magic or other paranormal powers, Sourcebook 1 page 10 tells us that no paranormal power can pass through power armor or robots either. There are of course exceptions to this rule. The spells that are exceptions state directly in thier discription that they can effect those inside the vehicles, or pass through MDC structures. (As is the case of 4-D transformation and D-phase)

SB1 is out of date.
Notice how you "forget" the part above the robot example saying specifically that EBA and Power Armor are no barrier to Magic or Psionics.

Does Doom need to quote it?

DarkBrandon wrote:

Temporalmage wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Bohica wrote:So, an NGR soldier in Triax EBA looking through the lenses of cameras mounted on the helmet and viewing the screen in front of them/projected hologram-whatever- is considered to have direct line of sight to use TK to pick up a rock?
But if you're in a "robot" you can't use the power?

Yep.
Magic too.

The Ethics committee, and the Bar Association, has ganged up on you and revoked your license!

Magic, and the psionic power of TK can not be used while inside a robot. And I believe that the only power usable through video cameras would be Telemechanics, and then only on the camera.

Well, What I'm asking for is if like, someone in a spider skull walker, looks out one of the glass window eyes and sees his friend about to get creemed and wants to help. He's not near any controls, but can see clearly the giant boulder behind the assalant. In this example, would he have to step outside the spider skull walker, or would it be enough that he has a clear plain view, through a window (not with cameras or sensors) of both the target and the item to be manipulated?

I believe the Psi would be dogged. The heavy environmental shielding of big bots and vehicles creates a barrier that psi powers and magic simply can't circumvent. The same thing is true with Dog Boys and their detection abilities. While inside of bots and vehicles an ancient dragon could walk right by them and the mutt would never know it because he is cut off from the outside world. Same thing goes with TK or any psi power.

Now there is a way around this so the guy CAN use his powers. Breach the seal. In the Book of Magic is mentions that casters can use their spells from inside such a vehicle or bot, but only if they extablish a link to the outside world. And how do you do that? Try rolling down a window or opening a hatch, even by a crack. And it doesn't even have to be facing the same side the power is to be directed towards. Sure, you're putting the vehicle and crew at risk by doing this, but it will allow the use of Psi and Magic powers from inside.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Temporalmage wrote:Good example. As outlined on page 86 of the RGMG, "psionically manifested physical attacks (energy attacks, psi-sword, telekinesis, etc) can be directed against the vehicle itself." The passage is discussing what psionic powers can effect those inside vehicles and giant robots. The opposite, effecting those outside from inside, would conversly be identical. Thus the pilot in your example would NOT be able to effect anything on the outside of the skull walker. Sorry, pray for your comrade.
As for magic or other paranormal powers, Sourcebook 1 page 10 tells us that no paranormal power can pass through power armor or robots either. There are of course exceptions to this rule. The spells that are exceptions state directly in thier discription that they can effect those inside the vehicles, or pass through MDC structures. (As is the case of 4-D transformation and D-phase)

SB1 is out of date.
Notice how you "forget" the part above the robot example saying specifically that EBA and Power Armor are no barrier to Magic or Psionics.

Does Doom need to quote it?

Do what you wish. The quote that I gave was specific towards the power of TK, and specific to the question asked. Would TK work through a robot? The book states NO.
As for the previous question, it was asking if powers would work through cameras and HUD type armors. The books are also specific on THAT. The answer is again NO. Now the books make zero distinction between armor and exoskeleton type armors. Except to state that they are NOT power armor. So I'd say when in any type of armor, or even exoskeleton type armor, that is not power armor...use whatever power, spell or whatever you want too. Just as long as there is NOTHING between your pupils and the target of your paranormal powers. Ya can't even use binoculars by the way.

So just what is your undies in a bunch to quote??

Pg. 86 RGMG
#2
Q. Can psionics affect people in body armor?
A. In most cases yes. Opponents in SDC body armor, MDC body armor and Power Armor are ALL vulnerable to Psionic attack, influence and mind control…

If you can use the power in then you can use it out. There is nothing about how you see someone. That is only mentioned in relation to bots and vehicles.

Dr. Doom III wrote:Pg. 86 RGMG
#2
Q. Can psionics affect people in body armor?
A. In most cases yes. Opponents in SDC body armor, MDC body armor and Power Armor are ALL vulnerable to Psionic attack, influence and mind control…If you can use the power in then you can use it out.

I never said otherwise. You really need to read things a bit more carefully ya know....

There is nothing about how you see someone. That is only mentioned in relation to bots and vehicles.

Wrongo...Page 166 main rifts book. "Line of vision means that the mystic's target/victim must be within his sight (line of vision) to be effected. If the target is not seen, is totally obscured by obstacles, darkness invisibility, or just not seen by the spell caster (hiding, behind him, beyond normal vision), the magic can not be used."
I distincntly remember this being a question on the FAQ. And the answer was that no magic OR psionics could be used through a video camera, binoculars, etc. Seems the psycic or mage needs natural line of sight. Though thinking about it they never mentioned anything about "corrected" natural sight, as in wearing glasses or contacts. But I pretty much chalk that up to someone not thinking things through.

Lucky wrote:now youre into pure semantics.

if youre looking thru binoculars at a person who is 20 feet away, then you should be able to affect him. if youre looking thru something (in my opinion) that if you take it away, the person will still be within regular line of sight, then it should be fine. this would include binoculars (within range) and video cameras, glasses, swim goggles, etc.

now something like a periscope would be totally out of the question.

Hey now..I didn't make this up. Just repeating what I read. But if you think about it it kinda makes sense. Anything that alters your perception beyond the point of normal vision would also alter your perception of distance. Kinda hard to judge how far that person is that your looking at through the binoculars. Even if it's only 20 feet. To you it may look like 2. How do you aim a power that comes from within you if you can not judge the distance acuratly, as in with your own eyes? See what I mean?
As for video camera's I believe that the ruling against them is more towards security type video camera's. You couldn't use your powers on someone around a corner by looking at a view screen. Once again your perception of where they actually are is very skewed. If ya don't believe me then try it sometime. Take a pair of binoculars, or a video camera, and a wad of paper. Aim your optics at some item several feet away and try to hit it with the paper wad. I'll bet that you miss it many more times than you hit it.

Temporalmage wrote:Wrongo...Page 166 main rifts book. "Line of vision means that the mystic's target/victim must be within his sight (line of vision) to be effected. If the target is not seen, is totally obscured by obstacles, darkness invisibility, or just not seen by the spell caster (hiding, behind him, beyond normal vision), the magic can not be used."

That's magic. This is the Psionics topic.

I distincntly remember this being a question on the FAQ. And the answer was that no magic OR psionics could be used through a video camera, binoculars, etc. Seems the psycic or mage needs natural line of sight. Though thinking about it they never mentioned anything about "corrected" natural sight, as in wearing glasses or contacts. But I pretty much chalk that up to someone not thinking things through.

Memories are funny things and I only trust mine. And I'm not even bothering to get into what I think of the FAQ.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Temporalmage wrote:Wrongo...Page 166 main rifts book. "Line of vision means that the mystic's target/victim must be within his sight (line of vision) to be effected. If the target is not seen, is totally obscured by obstacles, darkness invisibility, or just not seen by the spell caster (hiding, behind him, beyond normal vision), the magic can not be used."

That's magic. This is the Psionics topic.

I distincntly remember this being a question on the FAQ. And the answer was that no magic OR psionics could be used through a video camera, binoculars, etc. Seems the psycic or mage needs natural line of sight. Though thinking about it they never mentioned anything about "corrected" natural sight, as in wearing glasses or contacts. But I pretty much chalk that up to someone not thinking things through.

Memories are funny things and I only trust mine. And I'm not even bothering to get into what I think of the FAQ.

I'm pretty sure it's in the books. I'll have to get back with you tomarrow on it as it's late right now. But never fear, I'll find it for ya.

My ruling in the case of the telekinetic crew member in the 'walker...

As long as he is looking out through a window and not a monitor, then YES, he can pick-up a rock (within his weight limit) and use it (provided it is within range) / throw it / cause it to dace a jig / etc.

Why else do you think robot and combat vehicles have tinted windows...not 'cause it's cool (debatable), not 'cause it helps keep the interior cool in the hot sun, but 'cause it prevents the baddies from pulling the plasma rifle off the gun rack and blowing your head off with it!

(However, if the bad guy is Astral Projecting into the vehicle... )