PSI Sword and Supernatural Strength

[Athos]

Do you add your bonus for supernatural strength to your psi-sword damage?

Example: Titan CK has supernatural strength that gives him +3d6 MD per hit to a magical sword's damage. If he were using his CK psi sword, would he get to add the same supernatural strength bonus?

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

yes

[Nekira Sudacne]

yep, so if your titan does 3d6MD and he's first level that's 4d6 MD.

[Killer Cyborg]

Do you add your bonus for supernatural strength to your psi-sword damage?

Example: Titan CK has supernatural strength that gives him +3d6 MD per hit to a magical sword's damage. If he were using his CK psi sword, would he get to add the same supernatural strength bonus?

No.
Psi-swords are energy weapons and get no damage bonus from physical strength.
They're like laser-knives.

[Killer Cyborg]

Do you add your bonus for supernatural strength to your psi-sword damage?

Example: Titan CK has supernatural strength that gives him +3d6 MD per hit to a magical sword's damage. If he were using his CK psi sword, would he get to add the same supernatural strength bonus?

No.
Psi-swords are energy weapons and get no damage bonus from physical strength.
They're like laser-knives.

[Saitou Hajime]

I agree with the Trench coat wearing cyborg. You can't get a PS bonus on a Psi-sword.

[LunarYoma]

Do you add your bonus for supernatural strength to your psi-sword damage?

Example: Titan CK has supernatural strength that gives him +3d6 MD per hit to a magical sword's damage. If he were using his CK psi sword, would he get to add the same supernatural strength bonus?

no

[Zer0 Kay]

Are you sure it's an energy weapon and not a cross between an energy weapon and focused Telekenisis?

[Killer Cyborg]

Are you sure it's an energy weapon and not a cross between an energy weapon and focused Telekenisis?

Yes.

Main Rifts book, p. 126
GM's Guide, p. 102

"A Psi-Sword is a Mega-Damage energy weapon that the psychic can mentally will into existence!"

Key word is Energy.
Key missing word is Telekinesis.

[Dr. Doom III]

Yes.
It's a physical manifestation.

[Temporalmage]

NO!

Yes.
It's a physical manifestation.

It is, otherwise how would it do damage in the first place. BUT... it's a physical manifestation of energy, which can't be pushed against to do greater damage with huge strength. PG 32 of the GMG states specifically that you can not add strength damage to the psi-sword, flaming sword, or other energy type weapons.

[Dr. Doom III]

NO!

Yes.
It's a physical manifestation.

It is, otherwise how would it do damage in the first place. BUT... it's a physical manifestation of energy, which can't be pushed against to do greater damage with huge strength. PG 32 of the GMG states specifically that you can not add strength damage to the psi-sword, flaming sword, or other energy type weapons.

Tell that to the Cyber-Knight who palls around with Erin Tarn.
In the Cyber-Knight book there is a little story where he uses his Psi-Sword to pull himself onto the back of the Power Armor he is fighting.

YES!

[Killer Cyborg]

NO!

Yes.
It's a physical manifestation.

It is, otherwise how would it do damage in the first place. BUT... it's a physical manifestation of energy, which can't be pushed against to do greater damage with huge strength. PG 32 of the GMG states specifically that you can not add strength damage to the psi-sword, flaming sword, or other energy type weapons.

Tell that to the Cyber-Knight who palls around with Erin Tarn.
In the Cyber-Knight book there is a little story where he uses his Psi-Sword to pull himself onto the back of the Power Armor he is fighting.

YES!

Book and page number on that?

Sounds like meaningless flavor text to me... like when they portray mages as being able to take on powerful foes in epic battles when we all know that, as far as the rules go, a mage can't even take out a kid with a bag of rocks.

[Dr. Doom III]

Book and page number on that?

Sounds like meaningless flavor text to me... like when they portray mages as being able to take on powerful foes in epic battles when we all know that, as far as the rules go, a mage can't even take out a kid with a bag of rocks.

SoT 4 Pg. 15
Flavor text yes but useless only if you don't agree.

Oh and if there is nothing to be "pushed against" how can one parry physical blows?

[Temporalmage]

Book and page number on that?

Certainly. Page 32 of the Game Masters Guide states: " For example, with a psi-sword, flaming sword or energy sword, only the weapon damage applies, and PS damage (supernatural or otherwise) is not added."

I expect an appology.

[Temporalmage]

If I were Doom, I wouldn't give one, I honestly don't agree with the ruling in the GM guide. Kevin adds those rulings to try and 'balance' games, and lessen complaints. The description in the power leaves it rather up to interpretation (it's called an energy weapon only because it is composed of psionic energy, as updated descriptions of the power will say).

The discription of the power is irrelivant in the face of a ruling in a latter published book that does not allow it.

If Thorpe's can do it, other psi-weapons can too!

Flavor text does not a ruling make.

I would also like to add, that even if Psi-Weapons didn't add the supernatural PS bonus, you still have those nifty psi-sword boosters used by Amaki Duelists in SA2 that would allow you to add it, since there is a physical base! I'm sure the same would apply to King Arthuu's wonderful Calibur-X, and would have mentioned so if he had the capability to possess supernatural strength.

I wasn't aware that the psi-sword boosters had a physical blade inside the psi-sword blade. Either that or I'm misunderstanding your meaning here.

King Arthuu's sword Caliber X has a vibro blade that is surrounded by a psi-sword. If the weapon was used with supernatural strength, then only the vibro-blade would get the strength damage bonus. This too is covered on page 32 of the GMG.

[Dr. Doom III]

Certainly. Page 32 of the Game Masters Guide states: " For example, with a psi-sword, flaming sword or energy sword, only the weapon damage applies, and PS damage (supernatural or otrherwise) is not added."

I expect an appology.

Kev will get right on it as soon as you write him a letter.

Oh and still no answer on how you parry.

[Temporalmage]

Certainly. Page 32 of the Game Masters Guide states: " For example, with a psi-sword, flaming sword or energy sword, only the weapon damage applies, and PS damage (supernatural or otrherwise) is not added."

I expect an appology.

Kev will get right on it as soon as you write him a letter.

There ya go again...claiming to be able to read big K's mind!! For a self professed lawyer you really do give bad rules advice way too often!

[Killer Cyborg]

Book and page number on that?

Certainly. Page 32 of the Game Masters Guide states: " For example, with a psi-sword, flaming sword or energy sword, only the weapon damage applies, and PS damage (supernatural or otherwise) is not added."

I expect an appology.

I was asking Doom. He answered.

[Dr. Doom III]

There ya go again...claiming to be able to read big K's mind!! For a self professed lawyer you really do give bad rules advice way too often!

If you consider the correct advice the wrong advice then that's your right.

Still nothing on parrying...

[Killer Cyborg]

Oh and still no answer on how you parry.

Good question.
Maybe you can't parry with it.

[Dr. Doom III]

Good question.
Maybe you can't parry with it.

You can.
For an example look in the same place as before.

[Temporalmage]

Still nothing on parrying...

Ya edited your post while I was writting mine...didn't catch the parry part.

You asked how someone is able to parry with a psi-sword if the weapon does not get strength bonuses due to high strength. My answer is....I got no idea. I could draw hypothosis from Light Sabers from Star Wars, as they can obviously parry each other and solid objects. If indeed the sword itself is some type of energy field, and the field itself damages objects, yet was just solid enough to deflect say a vibro sword. Yet not solid enough to do extra damage no matter how strong you were. Or just solid enough for a cyber knight to pull himself up using one?

These are just hypothosis as there really isn't any true book answer here. And as I've said before, I never attempt to geuss what a writer of the books are thinking when they write some of these things. Too many of them make zero common sense in my opinion.
But irrigardless, the rules state that no PS bonus's apply while using a psi-sword.

[Dr. Doom III]

Ya edited your post while I was writting mine...didn't catch the parry part.

You asked how someone is able to parry with a psi-sword if the weapon does not get strength bonuses due to high strength. My answer is....I got no idea. I could draw hypothosis from Light Sabers from Star Wars, as they can obviously parry each other and solid objects. If indeed the sword itself is some type of energy field, and the field itself damages objects, yet was just solid enough to deflect say a vibro sword. Yet not solid enough to do extra damage no matter how strong you were. Or just solid enough for a cyber knight to pull himself up using one?

These are just hypothosis as there really isn't any true book answer here. And as I've said before, I never attempt to geuss what a writer of the books are thinking when they write some of these things. Too many of them make zero common sense in my opinion.
But irrigardless, the rules state that no PS bonus's apply while using a psi-sword.

So?
It's still wrong.
For a psi-sword anyway since there is an obvious physical component.

Unlike some Doom does not just regurgitate facts from books but makes the attempt to understand the whys and hows of rules so that common sense may be applied and logical answers can be inferred.

Oh and irregardless isn't a word.

[Temporalmage]

So?
It's still wrong.
For a psi-sword anyway since there is an obvious physical component.

Obvious? To whom? Where does it state that there is a physical component?

Unlike some Doom does not just regurgitate facts from books but makes the attempt to understand the whys and hows of rules so that common sense may be applied and logical answers can be inferred.

Logic is great for the individual. When presented to the masses, everyone attempts to place their own logic on an idea, and it becomes muddled when discussed with the masses. Your logic is just that. Yours. Which means that my logic may not agree with your logic, and so on these forms I try to stick with what is written in the books. Probably why you and I don't see eye to eye very often. At least you should have the courtesy to let people know when your giving your opinion, especially when that opinion flys in the face of book rules.

Oh and irregardless isn't a word.

So now I suppose your saying that Dictionary.com is incorrect when they have not one, but two separate listings for that word??

[Dr. Doom III]

Obvious? To whom? Where does it state that there is a physical component?

To anyone who can see the obvious and connect dots. Parrying and pulling yourself up with one equals physical.

Logic is great for the individual. When presented to the masses, everyone attempts to place their own logic on an idea, and it becomes muddled when discussed with the masses. Your logic is just that. Yours. Which means that my logic may not agree with your logic, and so on these forms I try to stick with what is written in the books. Probably why you and I don't see eye to eye very often. At least you should have the courtesy to let people know when your giving your opinion, especially when that opinion flys in the face of book rules.

Hence me being right and you being wrong.

So now I suppose your saying that Dictionary.com is incorrect when they have not one, but two separate listings for that word??

Both of which say basically "this isn't really a word".

[Temporalmage]

Obvious? To whom? Where does it state that there is a physical component?

To anyone who can see the obvious and connect dots. Parrying and pulling yourself up with one equals physical.

Telekinesis is physically felt, can affect the phycical world by moving objects. But TK is mental in nature, not physical. Psi-swords may do damage to physical things, perhaps even parry physical blows....but thats a far cry from stating that it's a physical manifestation. Once again your logic is illogical.

Logic is great for the individual. When presented to the masses, everyone attempts to place their own logic on an idea, and it becomes muddled when discussed with the masses. Your logic is just that. Yours. Which means that my logic may not agree with your logic, and so on these forms I try to stick with what is written in the books. Probably why you and I don't see eye to eye very often. At least you should have the courtesy to let people know when your giving your opinion, especially when that opinion flys in the face of book rules.

Hence me being right and you being wrong.

Boy your ego is only surpassed by the infinite nature of space itself.

So now I suppose your saying that Dictionary.com is incorrect when they have not one, but two separate listings for that word??

Both of which say basically "this isn't really a word".

Actually it states that it's a word used in casual writing. As in casually writing on a message board!! You have a serious problem when peaple show you your wrong don't you? Now ya gotta pick on peaples writting style to take the focus off your inept interpretation of the rules. Which you call "Doom's Logic".

[Dr. Doom III]

Telekinesis is physically felt, can affect the phycical world by moving objects. But TK is mental in nature, not physical. Psi-swords may do damage to physical things, perhaps even parry physical blows....but thats a far cry from stating that it's a physical manifestation. Once again your logic is illogical.

A mental power that creates physical force/manifestation.

Boy your ego is only surpassed by the infinite nature of space itself.

Once again you underestimate me.

Actually it states that it's a word used in casual writing. As in casually writing on a message board!! You have a serious problem when peaple show you your wrong don't you? Now ya gotta pick on peaples writting style to take the focus off your inept interpretation of the rules. Which you call "Doom's Logic".

AKA still not a word.
"it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so."

Dictionary.com defines Doom's logic as reality. Or at least it should.

[Killer Cyborg]

Good question.
Maybe you can't parry with it.

You can.
For an example look in the same place as before.

What, in Flavor Text?
Please.
Flavor text ranks right up there with artwork when it comes to accuracy in depicting the game.

[Dr. Doom III]

What, in Flavor Text?
Please.
Flavor text ranks right up there with artwork when it comes to accuracy in depicting the game.

For situations not actions.

[Saitou Hajime]

Look it is simple the Psi-sword is an energy soild it doesn't get a PS bonus because it has no mass and because it cutting action is based on energy. it can parry because it there but the cutting edge is based on energy.

Oh you can't parry a non-energy weapon with a lightsaber because the saber will cut the weapon during the parry and the laws of physic shall care the part onward passed the lightsaber, though being not connect likely will cause changes in direction.

[Dr. Doom III]

Look it is simple the Psi-sword is an energy soild it doesn't get a PS bonus because it has no mass and because it cutting action is based on energy. it can parry because it there but the cutting edge is based on energy.

I can buy this.
However someone with supernatural strength can do supernatural strength damage with a wooden club so why not a Psi-sword?

[Borast]

Without reading past the original post in this thread...

NO a psi-sword does FLAT damage. A CK with ZSR as his/her martial art would not even see any damage bonuses that ZSR might hypothetically give.

[Svartalf]

Without reading past the original post in this thread...

NO a psi-sword does FLAT damage. A CK with ZSR as his/her martial art would not even see any damage bonuses that ZSR might hypothetically give.

word

[Killer Cyborg]

I actually wouldn't mind if they made Psi-swords into an energy weapon that you couldn't parry with. It might actually make Psi-Shields have some kind of purpose. The reverse would also be true though, that most weapons couldn't parry the psi-sword, unless it too was some kind of similar energy weapon. I suppose you could parry the guy's wrist, but there would be some penalties.

Good call.

[Svartalf]

I actually wouldn't mind if they made Psi-swords into an energy weapon that you couldn't parry with. It might actually make Psi-Shields have some kind of purpose. The reverse would also be true though, that most weapons couldn't parry the psi-sword, unless it too was some kind of similar energy weapon. I suppose you could parry the guy's wrist, but there would be some penalties.

Is it stated somewhere you CAN parry with a psi sword?
I might have red that and forgotten at once, but I always thought psi sword was unsuitable for parrying, hence the shield

[SkyeFyre]

Actually there's a contradiction. In the main rule book it states that the psi-shield and the psi-sword cannot be used to parry but in the GMG under... I believe it's the place where it's discussing dodging ranged attacks... it says that a psi-sword or a psi-shield works fine...

I'll have to wait till I get home before I can give you exact pages on that.

[Daniel Stoker]

Actually there's a contradiction. In the main rule book it states that the psi-shield and the psi-sword cannot be used to parry but in the GMG under... I believe it's the place where it's discussing dodging ranged attacks... it says that a psi-sword or a psi-shield works fine...

I'll have to wait till I get home before I can give you exact pages on that.

Are you sure that's not just 'energy blasts' that they can't parry?



Daniel Stoker

[Saitou Hajime]

If you are a MD creature trying to use a wooden club rather than you fist, Doom you are being stupid, unless you are trying to pull your attack so it only does SDC. as with everything in Palladium there are points were things break down. MD creature using SDC melee weapons are one of those point, heck even if you use a weapon made of MDC Metal as a SDC sword, when picket up by a MD creature what does inflict? I say basic punch only except that it cuts rather than blunt force of a punch. But what happens when you use it on a SDC creature. clearly it gets messy again.

[Dr. Doom III]

If you are a MD creature trying to use a wooden club rather than you fist, Doom you are being stupid, unless you are trying to pull your attack so it only does SDC. as with everything in Palladium there are points were things break down. MD creature using SDC melee weapons are one of those point, heck even if you use a weapon made of MDC Metal as a SDC sword, when picket up by a MD creature what does inflict? I say basic punch only except that it cuts rather than blunt force of a punch. But what happens when you use it on a SDC creature. clearly it gets messy again.

The club will be destroyed but the damage would still be done. To a big creature a tree trunk is just a wooden SDC club.

[Vrykolas2k]

That statement probably only applies to SDC damage. With MD, you add your supernatural punch damage (including PS bonus, but it's still SDC, so largely irrelevant unless PS 116 or higher) to that of the weapon's, unless it's a non-physical weapon, like a flame sabre.

I'll be damned. I agree fully with Tyciol. What the hell...

[Vrykolas2k]

If you are a MD creature trying to use a wooden club rather than you fist, Doom you are being stupid, unless you are trying to pull your attack so it only does SDC. as with everything in Palladium there are points were things break down. MD creature using SDC melee weapons are one of those point, heck even if you use a weapon made of MDC Metal as a SDC sword, when picket up by a MD creature what does inflict? I say basic punch only except that it cuts rather than blunt force of a punch. But what happens when you use it on a SDC creature. clearly it gets messy again.

The club will be destroyed but the damage would still be done. To a big creature a tree trunk is just a wooded SDC club.

Well, it seems that if he/ she is using the wooden club versus a vampire or other HP/ SDC thing, well the club would be just fine... in fact, I might also rule that the club might have effectively smashed into the vampire's heart lol.

[Astroconch]

I would go with yes, but do it how ever you would like. I look at it this way yes it is psyhic energy so is ectoplasam which is what the psi-sword and shield are made up of anyway and you can pick stuff up and parry with ecto.

[Athos]

In the Revised Conversion Book, which is newer than the GMG, it says that you use only the weapon's damage or your Supernatural Strength damage whichever is greater. It goes on to explain that this is why so few supernatural creatures use weapons.

Of course it is contradicted in the Xiticix Book pages 77-81 where it clearly states the MD hand held weapons of the Xiticix add supernatural strength punch damage. Which is of course the logical solution to a MD hand held weapon and a supernatural strength wielder.

[Borast]

Don't forget, super strong character have a real chance of breaking the weapon anyway... I think if they do over 2x the weapon's maximum damage they will break the weapon.

[Zer0 Kay]

Look it is simple the Psi-sword is an energy soild it doesn't get a PS bonus because it has no mass and because it cutting action is based on energy. it can parry because it there but the cutting edge is based on energy.

Oh you can't parry a non-energy weapon with a lightsaber because the saber will cut the weapon during the parry and the laws of physic shall care the part onward passed the lightsaber, though being not connect likely will cause changes in direction.

Uh Lightsabers disintigrate any solid projectile smaller than their blade so unless it's a cannon shell...

Again the lightsaber isn't a laser sword it is a particle beam sword. The energy is emitted out of the center and then attracted back to the outer disk. You can acomplish this feat with a PBE through use of a shaped magnetic bottle. To shape the cohesive light from a laser one would need to be able to bend light 360 degrees requireing a powerfull gravitic field.

[Zer0 Kay]

If you are a MD creature trying to use a wooden club rather than you fist, Doom you are being stupid, unless you are trying to pull your attack so it only does SDC. as with everything in Palladium there are points were things break down. MD creature using SDC melee weapons are one of those point, heck even if you use a weapon made of MDC Metal as a SDC sword, when picket up by a MD creature what does inflict? I say basic punch only except that it cuts rather than blunt force of a punch. But what happens when you use it on a SDC creature. clearly it gets messy again.

If that is so and an MDC creature with an MDC sword is only capable of doing MDC punching damage then how does an SDC creature with and SDC sword do 2 or 3 times their punch damage if not more?

Weapons do not take damage unless your opponent specifically targets it.

If you want to be "logical" an object should inflict no more damage than it has DC in a single strike without risk of breaking. So if an object has 200 SDC a MDC creature would be able to hit and do 2MD per strike but the moment he did more than 2MD the weapon would shatter. Damage is not collective, if the MD critter does 2MD one turn then 1 the next the weapon does not shatter. The critter would have to do over 2MD with a single attack.