The JA-11

[Killer Cyborg]

In the main book, this weapon was the single best rifle availible.
It had a decent laser (4d6) for single-shots and the Ion Beam (3d6) was great for unloading your clip at a heavily armored target or a mass of lesser foes.
With a Long E-Clip and the built in Cannister fully charged, you had 60 shots (not including the 7.62mm round) at your disposal.
Pretty good accuracy too, with a built in +1 strike bonus.

In the GM's Guide they nerfed it.

I'm talking about the fact that they changed the Ion Beam's ROF from "Aimed, Burst, or Wild" to "Each shot counts as one melee action"!

I noticed it back when the book first came out, but I just ran across it again and it ticked me off again.

So what how do you play things?
And let me know below whether you think this change was a deliberate nerfing of the gun, an accident, or yet another infamous Typo...

[Nekira Sudacne]

aimed, burst or wild is how I use it.

then again, I let almost anything burst.

[Dead Boy]

In the main book, this weapon was the single best rifle availible... In the GM's Guide they nerfed it.

Whoever did that deserves an old fashioned Frat House initiatiaon style spanking complete with the studded paddle and a goat in the corner for God know what later.

If the laser is a single shot, and the ion beam is a single shot weapon as well but does less damage with a shorter range, then what's the point? The ONLY way that thing works is with the Ion Beam having a ROF of Aim Burst Wild.

[Svartalf]

Since, if you take away the ion beam's burst capability, you suppress it's use as a heavy assault weapon" as well as any usefulness in that function, since the laser has longer range and greater damage. I disregard the nerfing in the GMG... and am considering interpreting the "each shot counts as one attack" phrase as "each shot whether single or burst counts as one attack", in all weapons where it has been applied.

[Dr. Doom III]

Ignore the GMG.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I don't have the GMG, but I do have the Chaos Earth book which I'm told the rules from it are cut and paste from the GMG (not hard to believe).

According to page 148 of CE under "attacks per melee" each shot counts as a single attack whether its a aimed or burst/pulse shot.

So my interpretation of

I'm talking about the fact that they changed the Ion Beam's ROF from "Aimed, Burst, or Wild" to "Each shot counts as one melee action"!

is just two ways of saying the same thing.

[Dr. Doom III]

I don't have the GMG, but I do have the Chaos Earth book which I'm told the rules from it are cut and paste from the GMG (not hard to believe).

According to page 148 of CE under "attacks per melee" each shot counts as a single attack whether its a aimed or burst/pulse shot.

So my interpretation of

I'm talking about the fact that they changed the Ion Beam's ROF from "Aimed, Burst, or Wild" to "Each shot counts as one melee action"!

is just two ways of saying the same thing.

Where does it still say it can burst?

[Dustin Fireblade]

I don't have the GMG, but I do have the Chaos Earth book which I'm told the rules from it are cut and paste from the GMG (not hard to believe).

According to page 148 of CE under "attacks per melee" each shot counts as a single attack whether its a aimed or burst/pulse shot.

So my interpretation of

I'm talking about the fact that they changed the Ion Beam's ROF from "Aimed, Burst, or Wild" to "Each shot counts as one melee action"!

is just two ways of saying the same thing.

Where does it still say it can burst?

Not 100% sure what you mean. Where going by the rules I indicated say it cannot? Again I don't have the GMG, so I may be off base here. Is there something in the actual description of the JA-11 in the GMG that indicates the ion is now a single shot weapon only? Or is it just the change in wording of the ROF as indicated by KC?
Going by the rules I have indicated from CE I can fire bursts until I run out of ammo and each burst will count as one attack.

EDIT: Thats the way I've always played it btw.

[Mack]

If the laser is a single shot, and the ion beam is a single shot weapon as well but does less damage with a shorter range, then what's the point? The ONLY way that thing works is with the Ion Beam having a ROF of Aim Burst Wild.

Yep.

If the Ion Beam can't burst, you might as well take a vibro-blade and cut it off the rifle.

Since the GMG text says "each shot counts one melee action" I'm guessing that the word "shot" represents both single shots and bursts. Otherwise it's just stupid.

[Killer Cyborg]

If they use the word "shot" to mean "single shot or multiple shots"
then it's still stupid, just in a different way.
I'm not saying they didn't do that, just that it's like saying
"single shot only" and meaning "single burst only"

[Dr. Doom III]

Not 100% sure what you mean. Where going by the rules I indicated say it cannot? Again I don't have the GMG, so I may be off base here. Is there something in the actual description of the JA-11 in the GMG that indicates the ion is now a single shot weapon only? Or is it just the change in wording of the ROF as indicated by KC?
Going by the rules I have indicated from CE I can fire bursts until I run out of ammo and each burst will count as one attack.

EDIT: Thats the way I've always played it btw.

Changing "Aimed, Burst, or Wild" to "Each shot counts as one melee action" does.

[Sensor]

It looks like someone purposely changed the text. As we all now, the books are famous for cut and paste publishing, so for someone to actually change the text it looks like someone was trying to play down the usefulness of the assault capabilities of the JA-11.

The old text talks about Aimed, Burst or Wild. With the over all trend of the GMG to change the combat system it looks like someone actually changed the JA-11 to fit into the semi-new system. So, it looks like someone was on the ball.

With the single shot capacity sdc, and the single shot laser, and now a single shot ion beam it stays in the theme of a single shot sniper rifle. Perfect for any sniper needing damage and range over assault capabilities. Why offer an Ion Beam single shot? Maybe for those monsters, robots and D-Bees that are immune to laser and sdc. This gives the weapon greater versatility as a sniper weapon. This fits right in with the variable laser frequency.

Does this make for the perfect weapon? No, but then why would you just want one? This is still the premier class of sniper weapons, but if you want to jump from your Deer Stand after killing the Villianous CS Officer with a single head shot and then assault his bodyguards maybe you will want to have a heavier weapon available.

For those old school gamers that want the old gun... go for it, to quote great minds.

"Ignore the GMG"

[Jason Richards]

I think that letting energy weapons go full auto hurts game balance. I allow a two-shot burst for the ion. 6D6 is nothing to sneeze at.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think that letting energy weapons go full auto hurts game balance. I allow a two-shot burst for the ion. 6D6 is nothing to sneeze at.

While I agree that 6d6 is nothing to sneeze at, I have to disagree that allowing guns to go full auto hurts game balance.

Allowing guns to fire full auto levels the playing field immensly.
It gives a Glitterboy a reason not to slug it out with a juicer.
It gives the juicer a reason not to pimp slap the rogue-scholar with a Wilk's 320 around.
To paraphrase an old saying,
"Kevin Siembieda created OCCs, Full Auto makes them equal."

[Dead Boy]

To paraphrase an old saying,
"Kevin Siembieda created OCCs, Full Auto makes them equal."

Good line. I like that one.

[Nekira Sudacne]

full auto dosn't upset game balance.

sure, you could blow a tank away in just a few actions.

then be ammoless to take out it's support units.

and the tank can go full auto too, so you're down fast anyway.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Not 100% sure what you mean. Where going by the rules I indicated say it cannot? Again I don't have the GMG, so I may be off base here. Is there something in the actual description of the JA-11 in the GMG that indicates the ion is now a single shot weapon only? Or is it just the change in wording of the ROF as indicated by KC?
Going by the rules I have indicated from CE I can fire bursts until I run out of ammo and each burst will count as one attack.

EDIT: Thats the way I've always played it btw.

Changing "Aimed, Burst, or Wild" to "Each shot counts as one melee action" does.

Well again I don't see where there has been a change, just in the way it was written and as I said before it is simply two ways of writing to say the same thing.

[Killer Cyborg]

To address the issue of "why have an ion beam if it does less damage at less range than the laser if it can't burst?"

Two answers for you:

1) For laser immune/resistant critters (e.g. GlitterBoys). Makes the rifle more versatile this way.

2) The ion beam is more efficient in ways of energy used to damage done. For any of the E-rifles presented in Rifts that have multiple settings, I say that the higher damage settings use more energy from the clip. I think this only makes perfect sense. The 2d6 MDC laser uses 1 shot of energy from the clip, the 4d6 shot uses 2 shots of energy from the clip (otherwise, why the HECK would you EVER use the 2d6 setting?????) This means that when the target closes to 1600 ft. you can do 3d6 per single shot used from the clip with the ion beam instead of 2d6 with the laser.

So you see, even after taking away the burst ability of the ion beam part, it is STILL useful, no reason to take your vibroblade to it chum!

1. Yeah, like I'm taking a single-shot 3d6 MD weapon up against a Glitterboy!
I'm more likely to use the 4d6 laser to blow a large hole in the ground that I can hide in until the GB goes away.

2. Your reasoning is sound, but the books don't back it up.
As to "why use the 2d6 MD laser"...
Because sometimes you might want to take out a light MD target without taking out the wall behind it. Or the group of people behind it.

[Killer Cyborg]

1. Yeah, like I'm taking a single-shot 3d6 MD weapon up against a Glitterboy!
I'm more likely to use the 4d6 laser to blow a large hole in the ground that I can hide in until the GB goes away.

2. Your reasoning is sound, but the books don't back it up.
As to "why use the 2d6 MD laser"...
Because sometimes you might want to take out a light MD target without taking out the wall behind it. Or the group of people behind it.

1) If you're stuck fighting a GB, you're stuck fighting a GB. Don't sneeze at your only/best recourse... Besides, maybe he was softened up ahead of time.

I think the point still stands, for things that are laser resistant (GBs aside), that ion beam comes in quite handy as an alternate that is right there, no need to change weapons (taking up an action), just the flip of a switch.

2) How do the rules NOT back up using two energy points from a clip for a high damage blast? If it's logical, and keeps power gamers from hording over a weapon like pack of pirahna, then I'll use it thank you. I just really have a problem with the logic that says Energy blast #1 does X damage for Y energy, blast #2 does 2X damage, but still at Y energy. What kind of weirdo energy conversion is that?

As for not wanting to blast through a MDC wall with a lower energy blast, I think that is a very odd circumstance. If you ever do so much as one single MD past what the target had left, you take out a lot of SDC stuff behind him, whether you like it or not. Not to mention if you simply miss... Plus, how did you know how many MDC the target had left that you needed to use low setting? Did it have a digital display "I have 6 MDC left, use low blast energy please!"?

I guess it's possible, but I've never ever have it come up in a game that I have played in or run. Everyone always uses max power, unless that is they want to conserve energy (which makes sense).

1. What other stuff besides GBs is laser resistant? Not very much... Nothing I can think of that's common on Rifts Earth.

2. Your way of doing things is very logical and balanced. The rules never directly say that isn't the way things are done, but there is no indication by the rules that it IS the way things are done.
And I don't know that I have every used the 2d6 setting either.

[Killer Cyborg]

... exploding it like a blood sausage...

You ever play the old computer game "Wastelands"?
They used that phrase a lot.

[Saitou Hajime]

As for not wanting to blast through a MDC wall with a lower energy blast, I think that is a very odd circumstance. If you ever do so much as one single MD past what the target had left, you take out a lot of SDC stuff behind him, whether you like it or not. Not to mention if you simply miss... Plus, how did you know how many MDC the target had left that you needed to use low setting? Did it have a digital display "I have 6 MDC left, use low blast energy please!"?

You mean in your game they don't? This is why they invented the spell 'count Hitpoints'

[Killer Cyborg]

I really wished I had a JA-11 instead of the M1989A1 when I was in Vegas spraying the entire congregation of the Church of Mushroom Cloud into a fine red mist.

I have been working on a Wasteland Sourcebook on and off since 1991. Most of the games I've run have had quite a few Wasteland elements. Of all the completed and revised elements have been Ugly's Gang, the Temple of Blood, Desert Ranger O.C.C.s, conversions of many of the creatures into Palladium/Rifts terminology, Harry the Bunny Master, Highpool, the NPCs Covenant and Christine, and my personal favorite the Guardian's Citadel.
Eventually I'll post it on the web with a big disclaimer, but 10 million other things are getting in the way of my so-called dream.

If anyone is interested in seeing some of the stuff then drop me a line.

Let me know if you get it finished.
Awesome game...
I had it for my apple II, but they never put out a Mac version that I know of, or I'd still play it.

[Killer Cyborg]

There's always the body armor from Robotech... that's laser resistant.

What I did was to bring in the Vanquisher (or whatever his name is) from Villians Unlimited... he has an entire armor of stuff made with the GB-style laser resistant armor.