ROF Standard?

[Warpig]

this might be a no-brainer, but what the heck does "Standard" mean in terms of the rate of fire. I assume it means single/aimed shots only.

[Dr. Doom III]

this might be a no-brainer, but what the heck does "Standard" mean in terms of the rate of fire. I assume it means single/aimed shots only.

Right.

[Warpig]

Now that i know, im very dissappointed, how the heck am i supposed to kill anything in a couple shots with a military MD rifle doing only a modest 3D6 or 4D6 a pop?
weak

[Svartalf]

this might be a no-brainer, but what the heck does "Standard" mean in terms of the rate of fire. I assume it means single/aimed shots only.

Right.

Since when? RMB p 33-34 makes it obvious that the standard RoF is aimed/burst/wild... heck, at the time I was blissfully ignorant or handgun realities, I even thought that laser pistols were burst capable.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

"Standard" rate of fire refers to the 'aimed/burst/wild' rules under the section for modern firearms under every palladium rulebook.
It means that the weapon in question can fire single aimed shots, short burst shots, long bursts, and entire magazine shots.

[Dead Boy]

According to the latest and most recent version of the canon rules in the RGMG, pg. 39-40, weapons listed with a ROF of "Standard" fire one shot per melee action, unless said weapon falls uinder the "assault rifle" category, (like the C-10, the NG-LG6, the Wilk's 447, as so on). If it can be called an assault rifle, Standard ROF weapons are capable of bursts.

[Killer Cyborg]

According to the latest and most recent version of the canon rules in the RGMG, pg. 39-40, weapons listed with a ROF of "Standard" fire one shot per melee action, unless said weapon falls uinder the "assault rifle" category, (like the C-10, the NG-LG6, the Wilk's 447, as so on). If it can be called an assault rifle, Standard ROF weapons are capable of bursts.

Mind giving an exact quote on that?

[Dead Boy]

According to the latest and most recent version of the canon rules in the RGMG, pg. 39-40, weapons listed with a ROF of "Standard" fire one shot per melee action, unless said weapon falls uinder the "assault rifle" category, (like the C-10, the NG-LG6, the Wilk's 447, as so on). If it can be called an assault rifle, Standard ROF weapons are capable of bursts.

Mind giving an exact quote on that?

Sure. On pg. 39 of the RGMG it says, "Most eneryg pistols can not fire a burst. Many rifles, and most assault rifles, can preform burst fire."

Now that line comes out of the middle of Kev's Quick and Dirty rules, but it is the foundation for which the change and optional rules is based on. And quite frankly it falls in line well with the Errata ROF Rule that states,

"See Rifts RPG, pg. 33-34 for full details but, generally, figure that energy rifles can fire bursts unless it specifically says that particular weapon cannot."

That's all I got for now. If need be I might be able to extrapolate more data out of the weapon stats, but as you well know that's quite difficult given the vast inconsistancies out there.

[Killer Cyborg]

According to the latest and most recent version of the canon rules in the RGMG, pg. 39-40, weapons listed with a ROF of "Standard" fire one shot per melee action, unless said weapon falls uinder the "assault rifle" category, (like the C-10, the NG-LG6, the Wilk's 447, as so on). If it can be called an assault rifle, Standard ROF weapons are capable of bursts.

Mind giving an exact quote on that?

Sure. On pg. 39 of the RGMG it says, "Most eneryg pistols can not fire a burst. Many rifles, and most assault rifles, can preform burst fire."

Now that line comes out of the middle of Kev's Quick and Dirty rules, but it is the foundation for which the change and optional rules is based on. And quite frankly it falls in line well with the Errata ROF Rule that states,

"See Rifts RPG, pg. 33-34 for full details but, generally, figure that energy rifles can fire bursts unless it specifically says that particular weapon cannot."

That's all I got for now. If need be I might be able to extrapolate more data out of the weapon stats, but as you well know that's quite difficult given the vast inconsistancies out there.

Conversion Book 1 (unrevised):
p. 8
"An automatic weapon, whether it fires a bullet or an energy blast, is a weapon that continues to fire as long as the trigger is held in the firing position. The nature of the automatic, rapid-fire weapon is that an entire ammunition magazine/clip with twenty rounds can be fired in a matter of three to five seconds. This is especially true of pistols, rifles, and sub-machinegun style weapons."

p. 11 (during a sample combat between a Cyber-knight and a CS Grunt)
The CS Grunt "decides to hit his opponent with a long burst from his laser pistol, five rapid shots (half the total payload held by the E-Clip), inflicting 2d4x3 megadamage. Because he's firing a burst, the best bonus he can get is +1 to strike."

Also, all through pages 7-11 when describing energy weapons that are burst capable, KS uses the words "energy weapons"... not "energy rifles".
As in (refering to the rules on p. 34 of the main book):
"These rules apply to automatic energy weapons, as well as conventional..."

All of this adds up to the fact that originally energy pistols were commonly burst capable.
Maybe KS IS changing that in the GM's Guide, but it seems more like an inaccurate generalization than a rule change.

Really, it seems to me that KS intended the rules to be very burst friendly when the game first came out, but he worded everything poorly and never defined any of the ROFs.
Huge numbers of players interpreted things wrongly that ROF: Standard meant "single shots only" and KS tried to clarify things by spelling them out in Conversion Book 1.
Nobody paid attention and KS thought "Oh, what the heck. I'm still making money either way. Let's just do things their way."
and slowly began eliminating the burst capability of weapons.
(C-14 being a prime example)

[Mack]

And this is what pissed me off the most about the RGMG. Since the beginning, the ROF descriptions have been screwed up and inconsistant. But I could live with it. When the RGMG came out, I was really hoping that PB would take the time to clean up their past mistakes and lay out some easy, straight-forward descriptions that eliminated all the confusion. They were reprinting all the weapons anyway, so it was the perfect opportunity. Instead, they stuck yet another band-aid on the bleeding wound and caused even more problems.

What does ROF Standard mean? Who the hell knows. Whatever floats your boat.

[Levi]

Glitterman, read the entire errata. Here it is:

Rate of Fire

Rate of Fire for modern weapons, "Aimed, burst, wild" means that the weapon may be fired in single shots OR in varying bursts; "Standard" weapons may only be fired in single shots (unless noted otherwise). See Rifts RPG, pg. 33-34 for full details but, generally, figure that energy rifles can fire bursts unless it specifically says that particular weapon cannot. Pulse rifles (like the Wilks 457) can NOT fire bursts on the single shot setting, but must be set for a burst. Plasma ejectors (like the NG-12) are not usually burst weapons.

Rate of Fire equal to number of Hand-to-Hand attacks means that the character can fire an aimed shot or burst for each action that he would normally get. Thus, a character with 3 attacks per round may take 3 aimed shots or bursts (not 9).

And this errata doesn't really help as it first states standard is single shot, but then states most energy rifles can usually fire bursts.

[The Galactus Kid]

Levi, where did you get that full errata? The link from glitterman was from the cuttingroom floor. I do think that the burst rules are a little ridiculous sometimes and the ROF stadard meaning single shots would make things a little more balanced.

example: We had a character in our game on Saturday take out a SuperSAMAS by making a called shot to the head with a long Burst from his NG heavy plasma cannon. First, I didn't think you could make a called shot with a burst. Second, even if you could, that is a ONE SHOT KILL ON A SUPER SAMAS. I see something flawed with that.

[Dead Boy]

Conversion Book 1 (unrevised):
p. 8
"An automatic weapon, whether it fires a bullet or an energy blast, is a weapon that continues to fire as long as the trigger is held in the firing position. The nature of the automatic, rapid-fire weapon is that an entire ammunition magazine/clip with twenty rounds can be fired in a matter of three to five seconds. This is especially true of pistols, rifles, and sub-machinegun style weapons."

p. 11 (during a sample combat between a Cyber-knight and a CS Grunt)
The CS Grunt "decides to hit his opponent with a long burst from his laser pistol, five rapid shots (half the total payload held by the E-Clip), inflicting 2d4x3 megadamage. Because he's firing a burst, the best bonus he can get is +1 to strike."

Also, all through pages 7-11 when describing energy weapons that are burst capable, KS uses the words "energy weapons"... not "energy rifles".
As in (refering to the rules on p. 34 of the main book):
"These rules apply to automatic energy weapons, as well as conventional..."

All of this adds up to the fact that originally energy pistols were commonly burst capable.
Maybe KS IS changing that in the GM's Guide, but it seems more like an inaccurate generalization than a rule change.

Well, frankly, from a strictly Xanon Material stand point,
A) The sources I quoted are from the latest material and version of the rules, meanint that all crntrary material from the past are null and void.

B) Not once in this do I see these examples clearly stating they are applicable to specifically "Standard ROF". Yea, I know the C-18 pistol is a standard weapon, but other than that the rest of this stuff sounds like it could be describing the "Aim, Burst, Wild" ROF instead. I dont mean to be too picky, but what I look for when hunting for answers to questions of this nature is clear and concise answers like "Standard = X". The only place to my recolect of where they did that was in the RGMG. I hate what they did the rest of the ROFs for all the various weapons the nerfed and messed with, but at least they gave us that.

[Svartalf]

Bugger the "New Rulez abrogate the old which are therefore made null and void" approach...

The old rules a) worked better, b) made more sense and c) were less self contradicting and did not make you wonder "gee, why would they do it that way, it really does nothing to tell home about?" or "oh my, why did they replace a perfectly good thing by something that's not even really better?"

U hzezby declare the new rules null and void until I can meet KS or talk with him and have a good, long, satisfying explantion about the whole matter

[Svartalf]

example: We had a character in our game on Saturday take out a SuperSAMAS by making a called shot to the head with a long Burst from his NG heavy plasma cannon. First, I didn't think you could make a called shot with a burst. Second, even if you could, that is a ONE SHOT KILL ON A SUPER SAMAS. I see something flawed with that.

That isn't just flawed... that is outright broken. Hence why I don't allow any of that bologna in my games. No way a guy that can hold down the trigger on an automatic weapon for a few seconds and have more than one or two shots hit a 1 foot circumference circle...

And if my players whine about it, Fine, I'll let you aim a supa-munchkin long burst with your plasma cannon... but guess what ALL of the villans will have and are going be doing with it to the PCs from now on?

I agree... it's wrong... plasma cannons like the NG E12 (which I assume was the involved weapon) have a clip capacity of 6 ... much too small to even think of using it for full auto fire. I don't know who GMed but it was a wrong call... Auto fire should not be possible with weapons whose clip size is less than 10... preferably 20.

[Levi]

Levi, where did you get that full errata? The link from glitterman was from the cuttingroom floor. I do think that the burst rules are a little ridiculous sometimes and the ROF stadard meaning single shots would make things a little more balanced.

example: We had a character in our game on Saturday take out a Super SAMAS by making a called shot to the head with a long Burst from his NG heavy plasma cannon. First, I didn't think you could make a called shot with a burst. Second, even if you could, that is a ONE SHOT KILL ON A SUPER SAMAS. I see something flawed with that.

The full errata was at that link.

Bursts can be powerful. Like in your example. However, GMs should use some common sense.

If a gun only has a payload of 5 shots, a full clip burst should not do damage x7.

Also, if someone is doing a called shot with a burst, the GM should increase minimum strike roll. In you example was the SAMAS flying and how far away was he? A called shot requires a roll of 12, head shots are at -3. If the SAMAS was flying the GM should have added some more penalties (I know this is not in the rules, but GMs should add things in when needed); at least a -3 if it was flying at more than 100 mph. That would have required a minimum strike roll of 18. Also, as GM I would have lowered the number of rounds (damage multiplier) that hit by at least half if the SAMAS was flying. With these conditions it would become far more difficult to kill a Super SAMAS with a single burst but still possible. The characters are heroes though and should perform almost impossible feats. That is part of the fun of role-playing.

[Killer Cyborg]

Plasma Cannons are "Heavy Energy Weapons", which can't use the burst rules on p. 34 of the main book.
They can only fire bursts if, like railguns, they have a listed burst damage.