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G-Man's got it.

GlitterMan wrote:One thing I can tell you straight away and that is that dragons are NOT allowed to get bionics, no metamorphing creature is allowed bionics, they are incompatible. Even if a dragon somehow did get bionics, they would loose all of their supernatural metamorphing abilities. The dragon picture you are referring to does not have a bionic eye, it is an optic band that he slid over his head like an eyepatch (KS points this out specifically elsewhere in the rules), therefore the second part of your question is that this would never happen.

I'm not sure without reading through some books what happens when a dragon is KO'd. I think a dragon reverts to his natural form, unless its a CK dragon, in which case only a coma or death will force them back to their natural form, as they are masters of metamorphing.

Bingo.

GlitterMan wrote:One thing I can tell you straight away and that is that dragons are NOT allowed to get bionics, no metamorphing creature is allowed bionics, they are incompatible. Even if a dragon somehow did get bionics, they would loose all of their supernatural metamorphing abilities. The dragon picture you are referring to does not have a bionic eye, it is an optic band that he slid over his head like an eyepatch (KS points this out specifically elsewhere in the rules), therefore the second part of your question is that this would never happen.

I'm not sure without reading through some books what happens when a dragon is KO'd. I think a dragon reverts to his natural form, unless its a CK dragon, in which case only a coma or death will force them back to their natural form, as they are masters of metamorphing.

In the case of dragons and cybernetics they can't get it because they regenerate not because they metamorph, beleive it states that in the explination. Any creature with bio-regeneration can't receive cybernetics.

Tyciol wrote:Dragons actually can get bionics, but their ability to regenerate 1D4x10 MDC per 5 minutes is too intense, so it rejects the implants. Similar things happen to any creature with a similar or more intense healing factor. For the duration they have it implanted (which would be short), then yes, no morphing with that limb. Only shapeshifters like changelings who lack regeneration can be crippled metamorphosis-speaking by making them borgs.

It makes you wonder though, while most implants would be put in a place where flesh is, in the case of the amplified hearing ear implant, I always thought it was just places right inside the ear canal, which wouldn't really be healed anyway.

Why can't a Changeling from PFRPG get bionics and still change. Where does it say that if they get bionics they can't change? Just because you have a bionic arm shouldn't be able to stop you from changing your face or a leg etc. they just shouldn't be able to morph that limb.

BrokenChild wrote:

Shadow wrote:I have a player who is playing a dragon hatchling and 2 question came up during the last game on saturday.
Since he got stunned to unconsciousness while in human form...........
1)Do the revert to dragon form if K.O.'ed?

I'd say he stays in human form if K.O.ed but reverts to dragon form if he dies.

I agree with you. It never states that a dragon is required to concentrate to maintain his form. Once the dragon morphs he should remain in that form even when K.O.'d until the abilities time lapses.

Maybe even after death? After all a dragon is the physical embodiment of magic and their morph ability could just be their natural ability to shape the magic. After all the tranformation isn't just cosmetic. Since dragons are the physical embodiment of magic maybe they have a "Jedi" death leaving nothing but their material possessions behind.

Zer0 Kay wrote:In the case of dragons and cybernetics they can't get it because they regenerate not because they metamorph, beleive it states that in the explination. Any creature with bio-regeneration can't receive cybernetics.

Then that's two reasons.

GlitterMan wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Why can't a Changeling from PFRPG get bionics and still change. Where does it say that if they get bionics they can't change?

Because it says so in the rules. I can't quote the book/page as my books are not with me. But they are there (maybe someone else can tell you). Metamorphing is a magical ability. Bionics kill magic. Hence bionics kill morphing. Pretty simple really.

Actually the Changeling's Metamorphosis is physiological not magical. I could of sworn that partial borg only reduces the amount of available PPE not completely obliterate it. Could always be wrong.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Just because you have a bionic arm shouldn't be able to stop you from changing your face or a leg etc. they just shouldn't be able to morph that limb.

That is exactly what it means though... See my above statement about morphing being magical. A parallel would be the Brodkil and their ability to turn invisible. It clearly states in the rules that when they acquire bionics it kills their invisibility ability. By your logic they would be able to turn the rest of the body invisible, just not the bionic part.

That's simply not the way it works in Rifts. You can either morph your whole body or none of it. Once you kill the magic that powers it (which is what bionics do), it doesn't work. This is one of the few rules that I think is actually pretty clear by Rifts standards.

Again not completely true. Changeling=physiological not magical. Changelings can also limit the change to certain parts of their body. A dragon in the form of Bob could get bionics then alter just bob's face. Again I don't remember having a single bionic implant completely illiminating your magic capability. I thought a single component reduced your capability by half. By my logic?? By my logic metamorphosis is a physiological change. Invisibility is an illusion so if a Man of magic gets a bionic eye and is still able to cast invisibility then he'd still be completely invisible. If metemorph was an illusion spell then shouldn't even have to worry about bionics.

Zer0 Kay wrote:It never states that a dragon is required to concentrate to maintain his form. Once the dragon morphs he should remain in that form even when K.O.'d until the abilities time lapses.

Maybe even after death? After all a dragon is the physical embodiment of magic and their morph ability could just be their natural ability to shape the magic. After all the tranformation isn't just cosmetic.

Except that under the description of the Chiang Ku dragon it makes a big deal out of how great they are at morphing, even compared to other dragons. It clearly states that when they die or go into a coma they revert to natural form. I read this yesterday before leaving for DC so I am 100% sure on this one.

Also, it says they retain their shapeshifting even if unconcious, something that no other dragon description points out. Therefore, I assume that it is the CK's unique super powerful morphing abilities that lets it retain an altered form even when KO'd, but that this would not be the case for other dragons.

OK I haven't read that before. But does it say "They are the only dragon that retains its form when unconcious"?

Tyciol wrote:A changeling alters himself by reproportioning his organic mass. The less he has, the less he'll have to move around. I suppose I'd let him make alterations, but the more bionics, the less accurate he'd be and the more time it would take.

As Christopher Lambert said in Mortal Kombat "Exactly!"

Shadow wrote:However.......I like all the responses but everyone focused on the bionics half...what about the equipment? What happens to it? Would it change shape or size with you?

No it would not.

Zer0 Kay wrote:OK I haven't read that before. But does it say "They are the only dragon that retains its form when unconcious"?

I don't think that it needs to necessarily say it in black and white. If it were a given for all dragons it would state that in the description or not at all in the Chiang Ku description.