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I have always been under the impression that enchanting a gun doesn't affect the damage. You'd have to enchant the ammunition. But I could be wrong.

My personal scenario for killing off a Nightlord goes something like this:

Lure the Nightlord into an Astral Domain that has been built such that Nightlord powers do not function. Have a couple dozen experienced Nightbane and Guardians on hand...they all do TRIPLE damage to the Nightlord...and the fight should probably end with the Nightlord taking a dirt nap. Some of the 'bane and Guardians might eat it too....but that's the nature of the game.

And make sure that all the guy's firing the guns are Sea inquisitors so that they do double damage from that.
Now you rocking....

Earth warlock with petrification and a big hammer. NEED I SAY MORE?

Maybe Batman could figure something out....

All of those involve far more resources than a typical PC team has. Plus the Nightlords didn't survive for centuries by being stupid - they were trying to war against and assassinate each other during that time. It would be hard to get one to fall for an ambush.

If you want to do the RR thing...use slugs of the appropriate size made of Millenium tree wood...

There are so many ways the Minions could counter simple indirect gunfire it's ridiculous.

You'ld have to do things relatively air tight in my campaign to get away with it more than once or twice.

Jefffar wrote:There are so many ways the Minions could counter simple indirect gunfire it's ridiculous.

You'ld have to do things relatively air tight in my campaign to get away with it more than once or twice.

Breach the fold drive Reactor core of a Zentraedi landing ship within a couple thousand Kilometers of the night lord in question?

Seriously though, the Nightlords are extreamly potent in most forms of combat, their stats are just that bad ass. They got tons of lesser beings who are willing to give up their lives on the Nightlord's command. Straight up going after them will cause you trouble and is of limited value. Their vast energy powers makes things stickey in any attack against them, no matter how well put together.

But there is one thing the Nightlord's fear. Other Nightlords. Instead of trying to bring down one Nightlord with an assassination that may not even work and will definately give other the NLs something to work with to defend themselves, what can your group do to cause two nightlords to go at it? Infighting will be much more damaging to the Nightlords as a foe then an assassination.

If the Assassination works, you've poped off a single powerful leader. His power and experience are gone, but he will be replaced by another ruler. Your means and methodology is exposed, allowing for the NLs to start looking for some kind of defense. Plus you still have to get your team out of the combat zone and conceal yourselves from the fall out resulting from such a bold attack. And that's best case.

You start some infighting, and you've killed hundreds, maybe thousands of Nightlord troops, plus resources and labor expended prosecuting a fight you started. If you've done your job well Moloch will likely show up and put both of the NLs in the ground for you. Best case, you've started a war between two Nightlord kingdoms that has lead to the destruction of thousands of troops on both sides of the fight, burned up resources that can no longer be brought to bear on humanity, sown a deep hatred between the two lands for one another, pop off two Nightlords and forced the high king of Nightlords to burn political capital with the rest of his senior subordinates (can't figure he's doing that too often, he's a real powerhouse among powerhouses, but he doesn't have the stats to take on three or four of his greater subordinates, let alone six or seven. He wacks too many to fast and they will band together to take him down). Best of all, you're invisible. No one will ever know you had anything to do with it. So you can repeat the same trick. Even if they figure it out, they will still always be wondering if the attack they just suffered was humans trying to cause trouble or that jack ass from across the boarder screwing with them and trying to make it look like humans did it.

Remember, the enemy of my enemy is some chump I can get to do the heavy lifting.

I never said they did it more than once . . .

But yes, the greatest weakness of the Nightlords (and of the various resistance groups) is poor internal cohesion. Set them against each other, make them compete, make them conflict, make them kill each other.

Yes the leftovers will be the best and most powerful of them, but you won't ahev to take care fo all those lesser Nightlords yourself. Further those best will have been weakened, personally and militarily, through all the fighting.

That's when you unite the resistance factions and launch an offesnive.

Just make sure the other guys get to be the spearhead of the assault.

Aegis wrote:Doesnt anyone play the nightlord even remotly similar to myself. These are beings who truly beleave they could never be taken down by a mere mortal. I personally feel they would like to play cat and mouse games with a mortal, for fun. They would be apt to want to be the one terrorizing the mortal instead of one of his lowly minions. Think of all the movies where the lowly minions may catch the individual or more only to be brought in front of the leader type, who ordered them brought in alive rather than dead.

Distain for mortals in one thing, likely accurate given the lengths the books go to make that very point. However, there are lots of things out there worse then Nightbanes and humans to worry about. Cranky Dopplergangers (like the Attila guy for example), other nightlords, nasty stuff that just wandered in from the deep realms of the Astral plane, demons, angels and the occassional God. Not having some serious back up on your side, just in case, is foolish. You don't get to the top (Moloch) by being careless.

Think less comic book/James Bond Villian and more Michael Corleone (the God Father). It's not the Heilots they have to worry about, it's the other guy who's looking to take his seat at the big table.

This is how I play the nightlords, if they snuck around the nightlands and earth at all times, that would just seem to be saying literally that they beleave they are in grave danger, and thus not very powerful beings.

Plus my plan alone (which started this thread) would focus on kind moloch. It would take a good long while to get all the equipment, enchants and most importantly the best intel. But I am absolutly positive that there would be certain points for my team to find an opening to a straight , line of fire shot on moloch. And with the idea in the opening of this thread, it will remove him from existence.

Well if you're mind is made up...

I don't think you'd be able to get him without some additional effort, Moloch still has the Dark to play. He is the definition of hard target.

Now for responces made farther down, as for creating disent between rival nightloreds. That is a real good plan. it was also stated that killing a nightlord wont do much. Again its going to be moloch.

I doubt that, then the Dark elivates Lilith or the guy from Typhoon or another one of the senior staff to take his place (Lilith would be my bet).

That instantly creates mass havoc with the whole plan of the invasion of the earth and the genocide of humans. Not only that there is going to be a HUGE power struggle to fill that void of leadership. The disention has already started, not to mention power plays on earth and most certainly in the nightlands. There is going to be plenty of nightminions engaged in fighting and the like. Now is where your idea of taking out other nightlords really comes to fruition. This is when you take the initiative and strike at and frame up nightlords. When in this havoc it will most likely royally screw up operations on earth for god knows how long. Not to mention the severe weakening of the nightlords.

At least that is the idea and the way it will be if I ever run a campaign and that path is chosen. Sure it wont be easy but I am absolutly sure if the players were to play it right and be patient the opportunity will arise.

Oh well, another long winded explanation.

Aegis

I disagree.

That wasn't long winded at all. Hell if you add the two posts together, that's still not very long.

Hypotheticly, you wack Moloch. Now everyone knows you are a player and give them something to unite against, and under the leadership of whomever the Dark chooses to replace Moloch with (Lilith).

You move to cause trouble, his successor will have the spector of you to pin all of the troubles on. You're a "Carlos the Jackle" type boogey man (This guy had more luck then substance, but by appearance and copy cat crimes, Europe was terrified of him). And every other resistance group will bleed for your actions.

Now, if you cause all this trouble before hand, then Moloch is playing his political influence trying to keep up with you and quell all the fighting, everyone gets weaker and they only hate each other more. Sufficently weak, Moloch's defenses will be depleted, and you'll have an easier time getting to him, the rest of the resistance will be more trusting of your skills and ideas, which means more willing to lend you equipment, and when you put him down the others will wonder, "was it human resistance who wacked Moloch, or was it humans working for Lilith..?"

I mostly agree with Taffy, but I think the dark would peg Lord Mocker rather than Lilith.

If you have to kill one Nightlord, Moloch is the one to kill. he is the strongest, the most powerful and the one who through sheer force of personality (and arms) holds the rest under his sway.

Unfortunately, killing Moloch, without the aid of a thermonuclear device, is an almost impossible task. Not only is he incredibly powerful, he is incredibly smart.

Yes a character might be brought to Moloch's presence once captured by Moloch's elite guard . . . but that character will be stipped naked and beaten to a pulp first. Any items that he brought with him would be brought in seperately, kept out of his reach and if he made a break for them he'd find 21 darkblade spears in each of his vital organs by the third step.


The key to Moloch is a simultaneous, co-ordinated assault on Moloch and all of his avatars at once. This will have to be co-ordinated in several locations, both on Earth and the Nightlands, because Moloch and his Avatars operate seperately. The theory is that if Moloch is too busy trying to save himself, he won't be able to recall the Avatars before they are destoryed. When they are suddenly, quickly, destroyed, he will be weakened and much easier to finish off.

Of course there's the personal retinue of several hundred or thousand minions to deal with.

After the incident with the Reshaper, it's not unlikely that Moloch's bodyguard will be double or triple what it once was.

I don't know Jefffar, there's alot things to go wrong in that plan. The more complex it is...


If you weaken his power base, someone will come to test and see if Moloch is still all that and a bag of chips. Whatever the out come of that fight is, Humans win. Sort of the inverse of the Bush/Kerry Alien/Predator line.

Still calls for the more or less simultaneous destruction of all of his avatars.

The way I look at it, if you've actually reached a point where the party is able to confront (most of the) Nightlords, something it wrong. Lilith being the only exception I can think of off the top of my head, since she is a "public" figure.

That and under almost all circumstances, a face to face confrontation with a Nightlord should mean the death of the entire party...unless you're playing obscenely high level and super-powerful characters!

Besides, after having lived for umpteen centuries, they know better than to confront directly what can be destroyed through guile and misdirection!

(Read the Supervillan's "Manifesto" of 101 points someone once posted on the boards. It prevents "movieish" villians, and actually makes the players sweat, since (s)he's not going to stand there and boast while the heros are in some elaborate death trap that a child could (and frequently does) escape from...he's just going to shoot you dead!)

Aegis wrote:

The way I look at it, if you've actually reached a point where the party is able to confront (most of the) Nightlords, something it wrong

Actually I find it hard to even remotly beleave that a nightlord never is out in the open for even 10 seconds ever. It even states in one of the nightbane books how lord moloch likes to play chess, with a huge 'chess board' with human playing pieces in the nightlords version of new york city, therefore he has to be out in the open sometimes. Now I am sure there could be at least 10 human spook squad members who would be willing to give up their lives, just like the one did that blew up the magog avatar in typhoon. Sure it would take a hell of a lot of work to accomplish but eventually you would be able to get all 10 people in and their weapons, even if its piece by pieces since i am absolutly positive they could put the weapons together when all pieces are there. since they are humans and all the need to do is act like doplegangers until they have figured out a time for just one mere 5 second at most simultaneous attack. One which doesnt need to be a direct hit either, since there is a slight blast radius (80 ft) and the range of the weapon is 1200 feet. I dont think bodyguards are paying attention to those kinds of differences. When in most certainty there is a couple of buildings to hide in facing where the nightlord will be facing from. Best of all its all being done by humans and in an area which is going to be unexpected and therefore a much greater chance of success at it.

I vaguely recall something about that...however, with WMD, or even weapons of moderate destruction, you have to remember that what happens in one city is reflected in the other, so if you start knocking down city buildings in one New York, buildings will tend to fall in the other too...
Also, you'd need to take him out FAST, since he can use his abilities to shield himself and/or retreat.

Aegis wrote:As for anything being munchy, first that word is beyond lame and meaningless total fanboy term, anyway there isnt anything munchkin about this idea. It would take game time years upon years to get everything together just to get the weapons, find the mage who knows the spell, not to mention the time it would take for the enchants to be done. Then there is the sneaking into the city and getting the weapons in, not to mention the intel time learning when the mark will be out in the open for a shot.

Personally, I use it because it is used on the board. Other options may not be understood by everyone!

Aegis wrote:Please enlighten me how this is munchy at all. Humans, with existing weapons which were painstakingly aquired. And the help from a spell that any mage could eventually get. No its not called munchy, its called totally logical.

Aegis

As to why under most circumstances encountering and facing a Nightlord is "munchy" is simple. A single Nightlord is SUPPOSED to be able to take out a party. They are designed to be something to be afraid of! If you have a low to moderate level party that can take out even a weak Nightlord, there is something that is too overballanced in the character's favour (unless it's pure luck with them rolling crit after crit and obscene damage values and you rolling "1" after "1" and minimal damage values). That is the definition of Munchkin.

As for over time sneaking in appropriate weaponry and such... NO that is NOT "munchie"... That is called good planning, role playing, and (generally) power gaming.

However, depending on HOW the GM set it up (by acting on what the players are trying to do), it is not necessarily power gaming. If they can come up with a workable and logical plan, they are entitled to try (and for someone like Moloch, fail, but almost succeed!). Reward them for it by having an obvious effect - like Moloch suspending his ches game temporarily - to permanently!

Generally though, 99+% of characters, if they are facing a Nightlord are performing a frontal attack, and the GM is not "playing smart" by running them as bricks and trading punches, instead of the intelligent and obscenely powerful and resourceful opponents.

Borast wrote:(Read the Supervillan's "Manifesto" of 101 points someone once posted on the boards. It prevents "movieish" villians, and actually makes the players sweat, since (s)he's not going to stand there and boast while the heros are in some elaborate death trap that a child could (and frequently does) escape from...he's just going to shoot you dead!)

Where is it?

In all honesty, I haven't a clue.

You can try a search for "evil" or "supervillan" here on the board. (Or Google "Supervillan Rules" or some such...hang on...found it on a netzine called Gopher...




YOUR BASIC EVIL OVERLORD RULES TO LIVE BY
by anonymous

Being an Evil Overlord seems to be a good career choice. It pays well, there are all sorts of perks and you can set your own hours. However every Evil Overlord I've read about in books or seen in movies invariably gets overthrown and destroyed in the end. I've noticed that no matter whether they are barbarian lords, deranged wizards, mad scientists or alien invaders, they always seem to make the same basic mistakes every single time. Therefore, if I ever happen to become an Evil Overlord:

If you've been plotting to take over the world (and who can honestly say that they haven't) we here at Dead Space God Central have decided as a public service to supply the almost legendary, updated, supervillan code. Memorize these, despots:

*My legions of terror will have helmets with clear Plexiglas visors, not face-concealing ones.

*My ventilation ducts will be too small to crawl through.

*My noble half-brother whose throne I usurped will be killed, not kept anonymously imprisoned in a forgotten cell of my dungeon.

*Shooting is not too good for my enemies.

*The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box.

*I will not gloat over my enemies predicament before killing them.

*When the rebel leader challenges me to fight one-on-one and asks, "Or are you afraid without your armies to back you up?" My reply will be, "No, just sensible."

*When I've captured my advisory and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll shoot him, and then say "No".

*After I kidnap the beautiful princess, we will be married immediately in a quiet civil ceremony, not a lavish spectacle in three weeks time during which the final phase of my plan will be carried out.

*I will not include a self-destruct mechanism unless absolutely necessary. If it is necessary, it will be a large red button labeled "Danger: Do Not Push".

*I will not order my trusted lieutenant to kill the infant who is destined to overthrow me. I'll do it myself.

*I will not interrogate my enemies in the inner sanctum - a small hotel well outside my borders will work just as well.

*I will be secure in my superiority. Therefore, I will feel no need to prove it by leaving clues in the form of riddles or leaving my weaker enemies alive to show they pose no threat.

*I will not waste time making my enemy's death look like an accident: I'm not accountable to anyone and my other enemies won't believe it.

*I will make it clear that I do know the meaning of the word "mercy"; I simply choose not to show them any.

*One of my advisors will be an average five-year old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

*All slain enemies will be cremated, not left for dead at the bottom of the cliff. The announcement of their death's, as well as any accompanying celebration, will be deferred until after the aforementioned disposal.

*My undercover agents will not have tattoos identifying them as members of my organization, nor will they be required to wear military boots or adhere to any other dress code.

*The hero is not entitled to a last kiss, a last cigarette, or any other form of last request.

*I will never employ any device with a digital countdown. If I find that such a device is absolutely unavoidable, I will set it to activate when the counter reaches 117 and the hero is just putting his plan into operation.

*I will design all doomsday machines myself. If I must hire a mad scientist to assist me, I will make sure that he is sufficiently twisted to never regret his evil ways and seek to undo the damage he's caused.

*I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's something I want to know."

*I will not have a son. Although his laughably under-planned attempt to usurp power would easily fail, it would provide a fatal distraction at a crucial point in time.

*I will not have a daughter. She would be as beautiful as she was evil, but one look at the hero's rugged countenance and she'd betray her own father.

*Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's easy to miss unexpected developments that a more attentive individual could adjust accordingly.

*I will hire a talented fashion designer to create original uniforms for my legions of terror, as opposed to some cheap knock-offs that make them look like Nazi stormtroopers, Roman footsoldiers, or savage Mongol hordes. All were eventually defeated and I want my troops to have a more positive mind-set.

*No matter how tempted I am with the prospect of unlimited power, I will not consume any energy field bigger than my head.

*I will keep a special cache oh low-tech weapons and train my troops in their use. That way -- even if the heroes manage to neutralize my power generator and/or render the standard-issue energy weapons useless my troops will not be overrun by a handful of savages armed with spears and rocks.

*I will maintain a realistic assessment of my strengths and weaknesses. Even though this takes some of the fun out of the job, at least I will never utter the line "No, this cannot be! I AM INVINCIBLE!!!" (After which, death is usually instantaneous.)

*No matter how well it would perform, I will never construct any sort of machinery which is completely indestructible except for one small and virtually inaccessible vulnerable spot.

*If I am engaged in a duel with the hero and I am fortunate enough to disarm him, I will graciously allow him to retrieve it. This is not from a sense of fair play; but rather, he will be so startled and confused that I will easily be able to dispatch him.

*No matter how attractive certain members of the rebellion are, there is probably someone just as attractive who is not desperate to kill me. Therefore, I will think twice before ordering a prisoner to my bedchamber.

*When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to their advice.

No player group could ever off a Nightlord by themselves, the required planning and resources are just too involved.

Killing a Nightlord requires a Faction, or another Nightlord.

Now the PCs within a Faction might play a major role in killing a Nightlord (which would probably be the largest, most complex operation the Faction has ever undertaken) but they wouldn't toast a Nightlord all by themselves.

Incidently, I rather like the idea of a faction smuggling a strike aircraft into the Nightlands piece by piece, rebuilding it and then using it to launch surprise air raids. In my game the Resistance actually did this, with a B-25 one of their UR contacts hooked them up with.

So, plan your attack for when the big bads are in transit across a desert.

Jefffar wrote:Still calls for the more or less simultaneous destruction of all of his avatars.

Sure, but why can't we let they Nightlord from Typhoon, Lord Mocker or Lilith do that? Battle with even just a lowly Avatar is still pretty dangerous, and I would hate for one of my master peices of character creation to get injured.

Because the other's won't strike unless they think Moloch will allready be weakened. You need to take Moloch down a peg and put the scent of blood in the air.

Think of it as a Wolf Pack and Moloch is by far the Alpha Male. He's bigger, badder and stronger than any two other wolves put together. Anybody who challenges won't have the support of the pack because the rest are too scared. A few of the tougher wolves might put up a bit of protest here and there (ie Mocker or Lilth's private agendas) but they'll back down rather than start an all out fight.

Now if that Alpha Male comes back from a hunt with an antler wound in his side, suddenly he's no longer near as tough. Now any of the other wolves might feel they could succeed in a challenge.

Now they will be fighting each other about who gets to fight him first.

So you have to wound Moloch, badly. Make him look weak, make him look vulnerable.

The other Nightlords won't do anything serious until then.

In short, your precious characters will actually have to risk their lives (and probably loose them) if they want to win the war.

Jefffar wrote:Because the other's won't strike unless they think Moloch will allready be weakened. You need to take Moloch down a peg and put the scent of blood in the air.

Think of it as a Wolf Pack and Moloch is by far the Alpha Male. He's bigger, badder and stronger than any two other wolves put together. Anybody who challenges won't have the support of the pack because the rest are too scared. A few of the tougher wolves might put up a bit of protest here and there (ie Mocker or Lilth's private agendas) but they'll back down rather than start an all out fight.

Now if that Alpha Male comes back from a hunt with an antler wound in his side, suddenly he's no longer near as tough. Now any of the other wolves might feel they could succeed in a challenge.

Now they will be fighting each other about who gets to fight him first.

So you have to wound Moloch, badly. Make him look weak, make him look vulnerable.

The other Nightlords won't do anything serious until then.

In short, your precious characters will actually have to risk their lives (and probably loose them) if they want to win the war.

But you don't have to stab him personally. I am sure there are plenty of other dumb suckers to do that kind of work. Just weaken his hold on power. I am of the opinion that just forcing him to play my game will be all the incentive needed to get someone else to strike at him. In fact, that's key to motivate someone like Lilith who could well send a host of demons to do the dirty work for her, if she thinks he's not playing politics at full proffiency.

I don't think any of the Nightlords would be stupid enough to strike without a 100% chance of victory, and when it coems to Lilith, I'm not even sure then. She's particularly cagey and cunning, she is the youngest of the Nightlords and despite the several thousand years most of her compatriots have on her, she is probably the 3rd most important Nightlord in the World. She di dit all on brains, not stupid power plays.

I doubt Magog would go for it either, though he could be goaded into it if you played him just right.

Mocker seems to crafty for a direct stand to Moloch, but he'd be one of the first on the dogpile once Moloch's weaknesses were shown.

Probably the best bet in North America for taking a shot at Moloch is his pet . . . except that little lap dog ain't got any minions or power to strike with. It'd just be him, and he ain't stupid enough to try that.

No, the initial attack has to come from outside of the Ba'al, preferably it has to be done by humans. Why humans? Because it will make Moloch seem weaker, it will humiliate him. After all, we're just vermin to the Nightlords.

The attack doesn't need to kill Moloch, thoguh destroying all his avatars at once would help. Instead it has to embarrass him. He ahs to look powerless, impotent. he needs to look like a potential target for all the others.

And I doubt any Player Group could pull something like this off without a significant risk to their lives. In truth, about half of the characters I've played in NB would let themselves in on this knowing they would not come back at all. Since they know the war would be won.

Anyway, I still think off the avatars is the best option. Each is a massive undertaking, so you'd have to get a bunch of factions together to do this. They could either co-operate on each target, or divide up the targets (ie ADA hits one Avatar, Resistance another, Nocturnes a third). Maybe get the Hell Riders to do a major raid on Doom's Harbour at the same time (if you have that kind of pull).

Basically, as a GM, when the players put the fate of the world into the hands of others I make a decision on how it goes based on sheer karma. if the players are being selfish or evil for letting others take the losses, then things won't work out the way the characters want. If the characters are acting with truely good intentions, then things are much more likely to work out their way.

That's one of the sneaky ways I enforce good alignments in the players.

Jefffar wrote:I don't think any of the Nightlords would be stupid enough to strike without a 100% chance of victory, and when it coems to Lilith, I'm not even sure then. She's particularly cagey and cunning, she is the youngest of the Nightlords and despite the several thousand years most of her compatriots have on her, she is probably the 3rd most important Nightlord in the World. She di dit all on brains, not stupid power plays.

I doubt Magog would go for it either, though he could be goaded into it if you played him just right.

Mocker seems to crafty for a direct stand to Moloch, but he'd be one of the first on the dogpile once Moloch's weaknesses were shown.

Probably the best bet in North America for taking a shot at Moloch is his pet . . . except that little lap dog ain't got any minions or power to strike with. It'd just be him, and he ain't stupid enough to try that.

No, the initial attack has to come from outside of the Ba'al, preferably it has to be done by humans. Why humans? Because it will make Moloch seem weaker, it will humiliate him. After all, we're just vermin to the Nightlords.

The attack doesn't need to kill Moloch, thoguh destroying all his avatars at once would help. Instead it has to embarrass him. He ahs to look powerless, impotent. he needs to look like a potential target for all the others.

And I doubt any Player Group could pull something like this off without a significant risk to their lives. In truth, about half of the characters I've played in NB would let themselves in on this knowing they would not come back at all. Since they know the war would be won.

Anyway, I still think off the avatars is the best option. Each is a massive undertaking, so you'd have to get a bunch of factions together to do this. They could either co-operate on each target, or divide up the targets (ie ADA hits one Avatar, Resistance another, Nocturnes a third). Maybe get the Hell Riders to do a major raid on Doom's Harbour at the same time (if you have that kind of pull).

Basically, as a GM, when the players put the fate of the world into the hands of others I make a decision on how it goes based on sheer karma. if the players are being selfish or evil for letting others take the losses, then things won't work out the way the characters want. If the characters are acting with truely good intentions, then things are much more likely to work out their way.

That's one of the sneaky ways I enforce good alignments in the players.

I like to play the badguys against each other. And a straight up fight is not me.

If Moloch has to wack two or three Nightlords for not playing nicely with others, that weakens him, politically. If things don't settle down even after his strike (and my goal is make sure they don't) his ability to lead and direct is called into question.

I wouldn't angle for the death of a single nightlord. The pecking order is already too established. The Dark just picks someone new from among the upper power levels and we're back to square one. I want hot steamy Nightlord on Nightlord action. Out right civil war.

The neat thing is, given how much they don't trust/out right hate each other, getting them rialed up isn't that hard and conflict tends to bread more conflict. Once a good fight is going, I can leave and move on to a new area while they have to clean up.

Focusing on just Moloch doesn't get me anything. Even if he gets wacked, someone else just steps up. Trouble in the ranks saves lots of lives, Hounds killing other hounds aren't killing humans.

Like I said, the enemy of my enemy is some chump I can trick into doing the heavy lifting.

You don't have to kill Moloch, you just have to make him look vulnerable. You ahev to make the other Nightlords not fear him.

Without Moloch's stern discipline keeping the other Nightlords in line, it will be open season. Some will go for Moloch so they can be the top dog, others will settle old scores or just extend their personal empires a little.

In short, it won't just be a struggle for the top spot, it will be total anarchy for an undeterminable ammount of time.

Go to rifts. Steal or buy a few GB's.

Teleport to the Nightlands. Figure out how to cross the boarder to keep the tech in one piece. Better yet, just buy 5 GB's that require assembly.

Fire boom guns on Nightlords. 3d6x1000 SDC

Tyciol wrote:See-through helmets allow your men to be easily blinded,

Not if they are polorized.

and unable to keep secret identities, allowing the heroes to track them when they're off duty.

Unless you employ "Mnemonic Blurring Technology".

Must I state the perils of telling all your plans to a five year old child? Unless you kill him after he helps you each time and replace him, he might be used against you. Killing them off would be bad, as if the next in line found out about your habits, he'd want to escape, and may not point out a flaw in your machine, instead exploiting it to the heroes so that he might be saved.

1)So you don't let them know about your other five year olds. As far as they know they are the only one you've ever you'd. Or you tell 'em the hero's killed the previous guys.

2)You also forget that these five year olds would be drawn from your loyal/brainwashed slave/cult thingy.

Tyciol wrote:Boom Guns do not do that much in SDC worlds. They'd likely do 6D6x10.

There's no reason technology (other than for balance purposes) should do less damage in SDC enviornment. It's a benifit of tech. They do 3d6x10 MDC X100 in SDC. In a world with weak magic, Magic creatures turn into SDC creatures.

Which has horrendous effects on Earth.


Of course the death of a Nightlord probably causes somethign major on earth too.

Angryjack wrote:wow Apparently you never read Between the shadows or the Nightbane main book

or even the FAQ


MDC only stays in Dimensions that have MDC
otherwise they turn SDC (case in point, Micro nukes do hundreds of SDC in SDC Games, in Rifts, they do .. some number of MDC!)

No, i have. Don't make assumptions.

But there is no reason tech would do less damage other than (which both FAQ and NB books are doing) for game balance.

Angryjack wrote:Note: This means a Boom gun that enters Palladium Fantasy Suddenly only doese about 6d6 *10, in Nightbane it will do 3d6*100 or 3d6*50, in HU it will only do 1d4*100 SDC. If the boomgun went to robotech it would do the same amount of damage.

Um...page numbers, if you have them handy... Otherwise I'll just let the BG do the same 3D6x1000 SDC ("converted") it already does.

(As for a mage in Robotech, it would use the same rules it started with, but would have to draw PPE as if on the HU or BtS worlds, where PPE is low...as for halving the dragon's MDC, PPE and ISP...PPE I can see, the rest, no.)

Angryjack wrote:sure there's a reason. Rifts has mutated the laws of physics to allow anything with an energy cell to vaporize a tank., Without making any sound at all, in an atmosphere!

MDC as rifts has it is just fictional anime physics.


RIFTS Is anime. now, some of the Rifts books are entirely un anime, but all the good ones are definitely anime.


Heck this is the nightbane Forum, The RULES IN BETWEEN THE SHADOWS DO APPLY, not your house rules ;0

Nope, has nothing to do with house rules or Physics.

"Bringing MDC weapons and armor into the world of Nightbane would be completely unbalancing".

The fix is for balance sakes only. Not because of physics or PPE or Supernatural Forces.

It offers 2 POSSIBLE fixes. But the reason for the switch is only because of game balance.

Generally speaking, a weapon would do the same amount of damage x100. The change only happens if the GM wishes it.

Angryjack wrote:I guess you didn't realize the blurb about Nightlords..


Any inorganic material entering Nightlands or nightbane earth is VAPORIZED.
the BTS Rules Subverted that.

Edit: You are right on that aspect. Not on the damage aspect. Tech wouldn't be lowered except for game balance, but I'd have to find a way to get it through the barrier. I can't throw one thing away and not the other. The barrier would keep inorganic things from passing,

And I think finding a way to breach the barrier that they put up would be easier than actually going hand to hand. Then, I could TP my Glitterboys in to do 3d6x1000 damage.

Angryjack wrote:you simply could just .. reinvent the weapon in SDC land, but it won't ever do x1000 damage, not even in your wildest Wet Dream : )


especially in SDC Land, Boom guns do d4*100

I'm tellin ya man...tech weapons don't become nerfed, other than for Game ballance issues.