Juicier to cyborg poll revised, ignore first post

[Temporalmage]

Ok, I've answered yes. It's covered in the main book a bit. A juicer can change into a cyborg when he's near the end of his life. BUT....it's a dangerous procedure and there is chances of failure and insanities. Plus the book says that there is a pretty good chance the juicer just off's himself later on anyway. Now I don't know what Methadone is....but I don't think it's mentioned in the books.

[Mike Taylor]

REPOST

A conversion could work like this.

1. Juicer undergoes detox.
2. Juicer lives a couple of years as a squishie and lets his system settle down.
3. At the beginning of second or third year as a squishie, he begins the process of readying himself to become a cyborg. He talks to cyborgs and cyber docs where he can about the advantages and drawbacks and considers what kind of cyborg he wants to become.
4. He becomes whatever cyborg he chooses.

This is probably the safest method and best reserved for people who have only lived a couple of years as Juicers. A Juicer undergoing Last Call would probably die on the operating table, given the mess that his body is in by that point.

[Killer Cyborg]

Juicer to cyborg conversion is easy.
For one thing, the Juicer doesn't have to adjust to being a squishy.
For another thing, if he won't need his damaged organs anyway (except for his brain). If he only gets partial reconstruction, they can still replace some of his damaged organs.

[Svartalf]

I've answered by mistake on the other thread... just look there

short answer is yes.

[Svartalf]

Juicer to cyborg conversion is easy.
For one thing, the Juicer doesn't have to adjust to being a squishy.
For another thing, if he won't need his damaged organs anyway (except for his brain). If he only gets partial reconstruction, they can still replace some of his damaged organs.

No need to adapt to squishyhood? while I agree it is easier to go straight to borg without the squishy period, the procedure is not without danger... just look the bionics sourcebook p 63

[Dead Boy]

If the juicer went through a detox and then opted to become a borg, there would be no problem with this in fact. Hell, it's even noted in the early part of Source Book 1. However, if the Juicer went into a chop shop one day and walked out as a Borg the next, he may have some psycological problems that may require a little methadone-like treatments to help him adjust to his new body.

[Dr. Doom III]

if he's already in last call forget it.
No detox. It's too late.

[Vrykolas2k]

if he's already in last call forget it.
No detox. It's too late.

Correct.

[Mike Taylor]

Juicer to cyborg conversion is easy.
For one thing, the Juicer doesn't have to adjust to being a squishy.
For another thing, if he won't need his damaged organs anyway (except for his brain). If he only gets partial reconstruction, they can still replace some of his damaged organs.

The process can be done, but you are failing to account for the psychological well-being of the patient. The adjustment period would be necessary so that the ex-Juicer could fully contemplate the ramifications of what he's doing. After a few months, he may not want to become a Borg. In fact, may not want to return to a soldier's life at all. If you disagree with this, let point you to a much less radical real world surgical procedure, the sex change operation. Surgeons who are trained in this operation do not enter into this lightly. They encourage their patients to take time to think about what they are going to do. The operation is one way, much as the cyborg conversion process is. Once you become a cyborg, you're pretty much a cyborg forever. Your original human body is typically disposed of. This does not preclude someone from being stupid and making the decision rashly, however. Even if the character finds they are comfortable with the process and follows through, they may still have to deal with the effects it has on people close to them. Not everybody likes the idea of throwing away one's humanity and they tend to look unfavorably on people that do, even if they are best friends, lovers, siblings, or children. Is the potential Borg willing to risk alienating the people who care for him? If yes, then do it. If no, explore other options.

[Aerv]

Juicer to cyborg conversion is easy.
For one thing, the Juicer doesn't have to adjust to being a squishy.
For another thing, if he won't need his damaged organs anyway (except for his brain). If he only gets partial reconstruction, they can still replace some of his damaged organs.

The process can be done, but you are failing to account for the psychological well-being of the patient. The adjustment period would be necessary so that the ex-Juicer could fully contemplate the ramifications of what he's doing. After a few months, he may not want to become a Borg. In fact, may not want to return to a soldier's life at all. If you disagree with this, let point you to a much less radical real world surgical procedure, the sex change operation. Surgeons who are trained in this operation do not enter into this lightly. They encourage their patients to take time to think about what they are going to do. The operation is one way, much as the cyborg conversion process is. Once you become a cyborg, you're pretty much a cyborg forever. Your original human body is typically disposed of. This does not preclude someone from being stupid and making the decision rashly, however. Even if the character finds they are comfortable with the process and follows through, they may still have to deal with the effects it has on people close to them. Not everybody likes the idea of throwing away one's humanity and they tend to look unfavorably on people that do, even if they are best friends, lovers, siblings, or children. Is the potential Borg willing to risk alienating the people who care for him? If yes, then do it. If no, explore other options.

Way I see it, generally the Juicer has already done that. A lot of people would see juicer conversion as throwing away your life. 7 more years, then certain death. If that doesn't alienate loved ones, I doubt sudden conversion would either.

[Mike Taylor]

Way I see it, generally the Juicer has already done that. A lot of people would see juicer conversion as throwing away your life. 7 more years, then certain death. If that doesn't alienate loved ones, I doubt sudden conversion would either.

Yes, but there are those friends and loved ones that the Juicer meets during his life as a Juicer. And there are those who may not be put off by the Juicer process (you still have your original body, albeit chemically enhanced) who are anathema to cyborg conversion.

Anyway, my point is that the issue as not as black & white as it first appears. I also feel everything I've brought up is a valid hook for role-playing life as a cyborg. In fact, it all pretty much forms the premise of a PA Killing cyborg character I did up some months ago, either as a pick-up character or as an instant NPC.

[Svartalf]

OFF TOPIC

Is there any magic out there that could bring a borg back as the person that they were once before, kind of like a super restoration spell? Sorry in advance of the off topic question

Well... I think a clone body could be grown, and the brain implanted in... only it takes super advanced medical tech... I think only the 3 galaxies and Atlantis (Kittani) have that... an alternative might be to get some extensive bio wizard reconstruction (still Atlantis)

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

if the juicer goes straight to borg you still have to go through detox.

you could use a drug injection system to continue to feed the brain the drugs it got as a juicer and bring it down slowly. I would not expect a Methadone equivalent for the juicer drugs.

like I said on the other thread, I am reminder of Robocop II

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

but you are still walking around with a heart on the verge of exploding.

[Svartalf]

but you are still walking around with a heart on the verge of exploding.

If it were only the heart basically all major organs would be at the verge of failing ... your crazy would not live long. Unless it were done as part of a detox procedure... but then your crazy would probably be somewhat inferior physically, and even crazier than others of the breed.

[Svartalf]

Way I see it, generally the Juicer has already done that. A lot of people would see juicer conversion as throwing away your life. 7 more years, then certain death. If that doesn't alienate loved ones, I doubt sudden conversion would either.

Everyone seems to forget that Juicer, most anyway, only plan on being a juicer for a couple of years. they expect to make enough money as a juicer in those two years that they can go through detox and live easy the rest of their lives. What happens to most of them though is that they become addicted and don't want to/can't quit. Or they plan to do a few years for the defense of humanity and become addicted. either way those who become juicers don't plan on doing it till they burn up and die. they do it as a quick means to an end.

Keeping that in mind then a juicer would not willing give up the drugs in favor of being a borg. The only reasonable reason I can see for a juicer to become a borg would be last call. The juicer, now that death is on him, would do anyhting to live longer. Of course, I don't think that a juicer in last call could go borg.

there are of course exceptions to the rule. Some would want to... but I think those would be 99% PC juicers. NPC juicers that did would end up killing themselves later or become a manic depressive. That would actually be a pretty fun PC/NPC though.

So back to the topic. NO unless the PC had a real good reason and story behind it. Played the character well leading up to the conversion. In that case then yes, but with the understanding he had to really roleplay the character.

Sure ... and what YOU seem to forget is that the proportion of people who, after becoming juicers actually get out of it in time to detox is comparatively tiny.

And it's said many times in various places that 'borging up is one of the few options for juicers who go up to last call and are not gracious enough to let fate run its course and give up the ghost at the same time it leaves their body. Sure, a number just die on the operating table or before they can recover from the conversion, but it's still the most common way to survival.

[Svartalf]

blackassailant... 'borg conversion IS an option. Not in any campaign you GM, maybe, but in any mainstream, book true campaign... that option has been mentioned, offered, I'd even say touted ad nauseam. there are even rules about it. and there are no rules about what is not game possible are there?