just a thought on the Flower of Life.

Eryk Stormbright · Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:00 am

what would happen if a Rift opened up and dumped an Invid carrier that had the flower of life seeds all over Rifts earth, and the seeds got spread all over. now from what i remember the Invid can sence the flower where ever it is. anyone think they can sence it even in a different realm and find a way to follow it? *eg* and would the Invid once seeing Rifts earth and everything in it, turn tail and run like there was no tomarrow or stay and try to enslave the planet for the Flowers that are there?

Mike Taylor · Unread post by **Mike Taylor** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:14 am

This question has been asked several times in the Rifts and Robotech forums. However, you should be aware that, in the unrevised Rifts Conversion Book (out of print), it is said that the Flower of Life can not grow within 100 miles of a ley line or ley line nexus. Also, you'll have to factor in that there are places where the plant just doesn't grow well even without the presence of ley lines. A good rule of thumb is that if it can't grow in that region on Robotech Earth, it can't grow there on Rifts Earth.

Even if the Invid did invade, they would get plastered fairly easily by the locals. An Invid Shock Trooper only has 80 M.D.C., making it fairly weak in comparison to comparably sized Rifts Earth robots and creatures.

Colonel Wolfe · Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:25 am

Hmmm.... Invid invasion on Rifts Earth.... how well do the Peoples of Rifts Stop Annilation attacks (Ala Macross-Canon) like the Regis used on 90% of the earth and Every Major Populus Center?

Eryk Stormbright · Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:35 am

Mike Taylor wrote:This question has been asked several times in the Rifts and Robotech forums. However, you should be aware that, in the unrevised Rifts Conversion Book (out of print), it is said that the Flower of Life can not grow within 100 miles of a ley line or ley line nexus. Also, you'll have to factor in that there are places where the plant just doesn't grow well even without the presence of ley lines. A good rule of thumb is that if it can't grow in that region on Robotech Earth, it can't grow there on Rifts Earth.

Even if the Invid did invade, they would get plastered fairly easily by the locals. An Invid Shock Trooper only has 80 M.D.C., making it fairly weak in comparison to comparably sized Rifts Earth robots and creatures.

thank you all for the info, i just thought it be an interesting idea to run past people, and since i am new to these forums, i wouldn't know that this question has been asked before. if you haven't noticed... there's a hell of a lot of posts here and have yet had the time to read through them all.

Colonel Wolfe · Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:38 am

Zerebus wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:Hmmm.... Invid invasion on Rifts Earth.... how well do the Peoples of Rifts Stop Annilation attacks (Ala Macross-Canon) like the Regis used on 90% of the earth and Every Major Populus Center?

I suspect that the City of Splynn has a method of surviving/averting an attack of that type, and cities like Dweomer could be missed entirely. Most everything else would be toast...

Most likely... some people would Survive... but alomost all of atlantis would bite the big one... as its laiden with Leylines...

At what point dose Destroy "Everything" stop thou? people used to say Impervious to Energy would work....

Consideing that Leylines exist on most Low magic wolrds too... would the FoL grow on BTS? PFRPG?
or dose only the Strong powered Leylines of Rifts Earth stop its growth?

Using the RPg stats.. the Invid Bring 100 Million Mecha to earth... if they brought a Simmiler number to Rifts earth... thats quite an impresive force.

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:39 am

Zerebus wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:Hmmm.... Invid invasion on Rifts Earth.... how well do the Peoples of Rifts Stop Annilation attacks (Ala Macross-Canon) like the Regis used on 90% of the earth and Every Major Populus Center?

I suspect that the City of Splynn has a method of surviving/averting an attack of that type, and cities like Dweomer could be missed entirely. Most everything else would be toast...

Tolkeen had similar defenses, so either it would survive or Splynn would die...

Colonel Wolfe · Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:50 am

The_Spirit wrote:
Zerebus wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:Hmmm.... Invid invasion on Rifts Earth.... how well do the Peoples of Rifts Stop Annilation attacks (Ala Macross-Canon) like the Regis used on 90% of the earth and Every Major Populus Center?

I suspect that the City of Splynn has a method of surviving/averting an attack of that type, and cities like Dweomer could be missed entirely. Most everything else would be toast...

Tolkeen had similar defenses, so either it would survive or Splynn would die...

The only thing i can think of from robotech that can stop the Powers of an Assault the level the Regis used would be the Omni-Directional Barrier on the SDF-1.... Unfortunatly I prolly wouldnt halt it... No matter how much Damage a Force feild and stop... it would eventually Fail under somethign that powerful.

but Leaving a Few poeple on rifts earth would be intresting... plus all the Death qould Just shatter the Planet.... A death toll on the Scale Robotech-earth Faced in the Invid invasion would Flare the already powerful Leylines to incredible Heights.... and Introduce Giga-Damage Magic.

Lt. Holmes · Unread post by **Lt. Holmes** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:49 am

As Mike Taylor pointed out, the Invid have vast numbers, but their mecha is lightly armoured. The blaze of glory attitude to warfare. By contrast, Rifts mecha are built to take a pounding and trade blows with the best of them.

My personal favourite idea? Drop a bunch of Invid on Rifts Earth, in the high North America/Canada area, and one of these Invid is affected by the magical energies of the world, turning her into a Regis-esque being. Though not nearly as powerful as the actual leader, this Mini-Regis would have the ability to reproduce both Invid and their mecha.

So after these Invid have the area secured, their hive constructed, and are beginning to gorge themselves on the FoL, they run into another flying hive-mind and...

*dum dum DUM*

The Xitcix come a'knocking.

Though I doubt the Invid would start the fight since none of the bugmen use the sacred Flower, the Xiticix ARE an expanding race and take great deal of issues with anyone who flies, which is the standard Invid mode of transportation. The Invid are powered and have a huge stockpile of FoL for food and use in their mecha as well as a semi-renewable population, and the Xiticix have BILLIONS of warriors to throw away and never miss.

Now THAT would be a fight to enjoy... from several star systems away. Behind many, many force fields.

Ice Dragon · Unread post by **Ice Dragon** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:07 am

Mike Taylor wrote:This question has been asked several times in the Rifts and Robotech forums. However, you should be aware that, in the unrevised Rifts Conversion Book (out of print), it is said that the Flower of Life can not grow within 100 miles of a ley line or ley line nexus. Also, you'll have to factor in that there are places where the plant just doesn't grow well even without the presence of ley lines. A good rule of thumb is that if it can't grow in that region on Robotech Earth, it can't grow there on Rifts Earth.

Even if the Invid did invade, they would get plastered fairly easily by the locals. An Invid Shock Trooper only has 80 M.D.C., making it fairly weak in comparison to comparably sized Rifts Earth robots and creatures.

What Mike said.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:26 pm

Actually, if that happened, all of Harmony Gold's copyright lawyers would promptly bankrupt Palladium Books.

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:50 am

well stranger things have happened Zerebus

Lt. Holmes · Unread post by **Lt. Holmes** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:59 am

Actually, this brings up a thought.

Considering how powerful the Regis (and Regent, for that matter) is in a non-magical world like Robotech, imagine how much more powerful she'd be in Rifts Earth?

Sheesh. She would be downright scary on Rifts Earth

Eryk Stormbright · Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:38 am

yes that Is an interesting thought, and a scary one at that... i wouldn't want to be in their path unless i had ALOT of good PAs backing me up.

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:13 am

*hires an army of GB's*

Colonel Wolfe · Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:19 am

Marcethus wrote:*hires an army of GB's*

Glitter boys verus the Invid? eh, its pretty even. if you put Equald amounts of MDc on the feild (1 x 770 MDC GB vs. 11 x 70MDc armord scouts, 10 x 80MDc shoch troopers, 4x 200 MDc Pincer units, 2x 300 MDc RCBs or 15 x 50 MDC Enforcer Powerarmors{or any combo of the above}). Thou the Ram,ing Rules are the Gimp, the Invid scouts were Quite adept at the removal of the Ships form orbit Via Ram assults. The Main point about the Invid is they have 100 Million Avalible Units for war.. and a Godess who can Spend an hour and Make and Combination of them she needs... up 100 Million stage 5 if she rerally needed. (no telling what affect High PPE Levels would have on the Psionic Juggernaught.. in a Low Magic setting she has 100K hp and 50K sdc.. she could very well become a 150K MDC monster (over 1.5 Million in her energy form), with an unlimited ISP payload and the ability to make anythng out of thin air)

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:31 am

yes but considering that said Invid have to get in range to hit the GBs I would take the 11000ft range of the Boom Gun and the whatever the range of the Mark IV PB cannon to help defend whilst I got the hell away.

Lt. Holmes · Unread post by **Lt. Holmes** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:46 am

Marcethus wrote:whilst I got the hell away.

Truer words for dealing with the Invid have never been spoken :lol:

Colonel Wolfe · Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:47 am

but Considering the Slowest of Invid are Faster in the air then the Glitterboy could hope to ever go... Distance verus the GB is not a Problem (a scout flying max speed can cover 1000 meter in a second, Giving a GB half a Melees round before he faceing a Swarm at point blank range). the Invid main arms are Plasma so the GB's Anti-laser armor is no help... and the GB must Lock down to fire its main canon which makes it a Stationary target. in an Equal Armor Situation a Gb will be hard pressed to Survive.. and will come out worse for ware. (Honstly as a GM allowing the Invid 2x the MDc in mecha against a GB is still fair Game... ).
(a Full 2.7% of the Time the GB will not kill a Scout in one hit :-P

)

Rifts stuff is way more powerful, but Invid have the Numbers to hold their own... as did the Zents at their Height of 5 Million warships (usually with 1,000+ troops(and Mecha) on each).

Lt. Holmes · Unread post by **Lt. Holmes** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:01 am

So let's even the odds a bit. Invid Swarm vs the Glitter Boy Legions of Free Quebec. And what the heck, let's toss Triax into the mix, too. Get all the GOOD Earth GBs in on it

Colonel Wolfe · Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:12 am

Lt. Holmes wrote:So let's even the odds a bit. Invid Swarm vs the Glitter Boy Legions of Free Quebec. And what the heck, let's toss Triax into the mix, too. Get all the GOOD Earth GBs in on it

100 Million Flying, Suicidal, Plasma Armed Slugs backed up by one near Supream Being.

v.

a Legion of 5 Million GB's at the Most.

I'll bet on Corg anyday.. it took a Beta to take him out... The RCB & Overlord are nasty, and use Point-blank Mini-missiles...

Eryk Stormbright · Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:56 pm

when i started this i was just talking about one carrier trasport with the seeds of the FoL. not millions of swarms of invid. as others have said they might or might not be able to sence the FoL thought the different realms. but IF they could i can see them comming.... not sure how they'd get here since the carrier ran into a random Rift. they'd have to find a way to open a new Rift and make sure it opened in the right place, and depending on the timeframe, the Invid might be at war with the masters,REF, or whoever. would they ~really~ have the forces to spare to invade Rifts Earth? i'm sure if there was no wars going on at the time they would invade in a heartbeat. for the PPE and ISP rich planet i'm sure would alter them for the better(or worse, how ever you want to look at it). that and with Earth being the doorway to SO many other realms.... how could anyone pass that up?

Eryk Stormbright · Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:59 pm

oh and i know their mecha isn't all that strong, but i'm sure they'd catch on pretty damn quick on how to make their mecha up to snuff with say the CS, GB, and others.

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:39 am

Lt. Holmes wrote:Actually, this brings up a thought.

Considering how powerful the Regis (and Regent, for that matter) is in a non-magical world like Robotech, imagine how much more powerful she'd be in Rifts Earth?

Sheesh. She would be downright scary on Rifts Earth

Didn't someone earlier bring up the point llathat the invid avoid ley lines?
So maybe she'd be waker in a magically strong environment?
Just a thought....

Mike Taylor · Unread post by **Mike Taylor** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:56 am

The_Spirit wrote:Didn't someone earlier bring up the point llathat the invid avoid ley lines?
So maybe she'd be waker in a magically strong environment?
Just a thought....

I must have missed that. I just pointed out the old Rifts Conversion Book stating that the Flower just wouldn't grow near ley lines. I don't recall any other effects on the Invid beyond that.

Eryk Stormbright · Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:12 am

i don't remember anything about the Ley Lines being bad for the Invid either, just the FoL. but with all the different RCCs out there that only get BETTER on Rifts earth, i can't see how the Invid could be effected badly by the magic of the planet, *shrugs* but that's just me, i'm sure everyone has a different take on the issue.

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:49 am

Thanks for being civil, wasn't sure if I was going to get a bunch of "that's so stupid " replies...

I can see her getting powerful too, but with her connection to the FoL I was just wondering if what made them weak also made her weak...

...and I don't think she'd want to conquer Rift Earth because it's covered in ley lines and they can't grow near them...

...but if she did, she might avoid destroying places that where near ley lines(Lazlo, Tolkeen,Atlantis etc...) as long as they avoided the FoL, since they can't grow near ley lines any way...
While destroying The CS/NGR etc, as A potential threat(They would go out of their was(well the CS anyway the NGR just might find it self facing the Gargoyle and their new allies invid(who then turn and destroy the Gargoyles :lol:

)
As the CS definitely wouldn't stand for their presence but the other places might be willing to stay inside their cities if it meant avoiding annihilation maybe?
Just a thought.... :oops:

Lt. Holmes · Unread post by **Lt. Holmes** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:27 pm

Actually, I doubt that the Regis or any Invid would be interested in destroying Rifts Earth, because none of them have defiled the sacred flower.

Because none of the races on Rifts Earth uses protoculture, I imagine that the Invid would be quite content to just clear out a "small" area for themselves that's far enough away from any lay line so that the Flower of Life could grow easily, and then just stay there and discover the greatness of the couch and TV

The Regis would probably keep as few of her children active as possible and send the rest into suspended animation, simply because she'd have no need for a massive planatary occupation force.

Actually, now that I think about it, the Regis would probably consider being dumped on Rifts Earth a huge blessing, because it would allow her access to any number of new and unusual lifeforms to study in her search for the ultimate evolutionary form for her people.

Eryk Stormbright · Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 pm

*eg* oh yes... she would have a field day with those G-pits of hers... and with the Rifts opening doorways to new worlds i'm sure she'd be a Very happy camper.

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:22 pm

She has a Homocidal Anti-Human Streak a mile Wide? Humans are Children of the Shadow... her Invid are the Children of the Light! Shes a Religious nut-job Crossed with Adolf Hitler. Even thou the "shadow children" on Rifts earth have no Prorotcuture powered stuff... She'd still Want to remove them because the FOL is in the Area... and they are in the Way.
Genisis pit stuff... sure, Dragons would make awesome items for her Alchemy and Elnlightned Evoultion... as Rand Called her a "dragon-lady" she could very well become something much more powerful then that...
Her Humans form is not nesicarily her True form... is she Hooked up with.. The Mechinoids... killed the Stage 5 off... and offred to help Exterminate all Humanoids... She'd have a perfect bed buddy... who were Also betrayed by the "Shadow" in their History.

Eryk Stormbright · Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:27 pm

yeah she would deffinitly be a force to try and stop ASAP. but if she desides to just pick a little spot away from the Ley Lines and dig in, making a base, her G-pits and more of her children..... i can see her becoming alot like the Xiticix, just getting stronger with numbers and spreading out to take over more land *shudders* that thought is just scary.

The Artist Formerly · Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:07 pm

Here's how this would work out. Splynncryth would smite the hell out of the Invid and their leader. Ol' one eye has body guards who are packing more firepower then her by a factor of ten. He's got magic resources she can't even begin to touch, Psionics she can't compete with and he has technology that is so far advanced beyond the RCB that it wouldn't even begin to match up. He's got troops that as loyal to him as the Invid are to her, only his guys are smart. She has a numbers advantage but I doubt it would pay off, he's got a lot of troops himself and they are man of uh, bug, much better at war, better equiped and have access to resources the Invid couldn't hope to match.

Her messing in any significant way with his sales and gambling operations would not be taken lightly. The end result would be that the Invid would be a new slave race for the Sploogies and Splynny would be the sole possesor of the secrets of Protoculture (after he Bio-Wizard Tortured them out of her).

Eryk Stormbright · Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:26 pm

*nods* ok.... now that was something i just did Not need to think about. if he were able to do that to the Invid and then get the Protoculture info out of her.... i'm not sure anything Anywhere could stop him.

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:03 pm

The Artist Formerly wrote: Splynncryth would smite the hell out of the Invid and their leader. Ol' one eye has body guards who are packing more firepower then her by a factor of ten. He's got magic resources she can't even begin to touch, Psionics she can't compete with and he has technology that is so far advanced beyond the RCB that it wouldn't even begin to match up.

I agree with everything up to the Psionics Part... The Regis is based on a No-Magic world, and has a Psionic limti greater then anything in Rifts... Unlimited ISP, her Alchmey is greater in some way then any magic.

Using the conversion of PFRPG power to Rifts... her MindBolts Maxx out at 2D6x100MDC, and can do it 3 times per Melee. Since she the Equivelant of a Minor Intelligence... convert her HP & SDc to MD... giving her 1,500,000 MDC in her Energy form. 5000 MDC forcefrild...

but were Also talking the ever Grey Conversion Area.... Like Deamons in Palladium wiht sevaral hundred HP's that become MDc in Rifts? would it be the same for her? Psychic Powers are Amplified by the Rifts... do hers Follow the SDC to MDC conversion (as per a Psi-sword)? He powers are greta on a Wolrd with no Magic.. would they become much Greater on Rifts that had Mega-Magic?

The Artist Formerly · Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:16 pm

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
The Artist Formerly wrote: Splynncryth would smite the hell out of the Invid and their leader. Ol' one eye has body guards who are packing more firepower then her by a factor of ten. He's got magic resources she can't even begin to touch, Psionics she can't compete with and he has technology that is so far advanced beyond the RCB that it wouldn't even begin to match up.

I agree with everything up to the Psionics Part... The Regis is based on a No-Magic world, and has a Psionic limti greater then anything in Rifts... Unlimited ISP, her Alchmey is greater in some way then any magic.

Using the conversion of PFRPG power to Rifts... her MindBolts Maxx out at 2D6x100MDC, and can do it 3 times per Melee. Since she the Equivelant of a Minor Intelligence... convert her HP & SDc to MD... giving her 1,500,000 MDC in her Energy form. 5000 MDC forcefrild...

but were Also talking the ever Grey Conversion Area.... Like Deamons in Palladium wiht sevaral hundred HP's that become MDc in Rifts? would it be the same for her? Psychic Powers are Amplified by the Rifts... do hers Follow the SDC to MDC conversion (as per a Psi-sword)? He powers are greta on a Wolrd with no Magic.. would they become much Greater on Rifts that had Mega-Magic?

She isn't a creature of Magic nor a demon or a good. Her power source isn't influenced by magic, infact it seems hampered in magic's presence. I think HP+SDC=MDC on a point to point conversion would accurate, SDC damage values for her attacks would equate point for point into MDC, those things are pretty clear. But after that... Psionics as your main weapon is somewhat limited, it's using them to enhance your other abilities that make them so deadly. And she is badly outclassed there.

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:38 pm

The Artist Formerly wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
The Artist Formerly wrote: Splynncryth would smite the hell out of the Invid and their leader. Ol' one eye has body guards who are packing more firepower then her by a factor of ten. He's got magic resources she can't even begin to touch, Psionics she can't compete with and he has technology that is so far advanced beyond the RCB that it wouldn't even begin to match up.

I agree with everything up to the Psionics Part... The Regis is based on a No-Magic world, and has a Psionic limti greater then anything in Rifts... Unlimited ISP, her Alchmey is greater in some way then any magic.

Using the conversion of PFRPG power to Rifts... her MindBolts Maxx out at 2D6x100MDC, and can do it 3 times per Melee. Since she the Equivelant of a Minor Intelligence... convert her HP & SDc to MD... giving her 1,500,000 MDC in her Energy form. 5000 MDC forcefrild...

but were Also talking the ever Grey Conversion Area.... Like Deamons in Palladium wiht sevaral hundred HP's that become MDc in Rifts? would it be the same for her? Psychic Powers are Amplified by the Rifts... do hers Follow the SDC to MDC conversion (as per a Psi-sword)? He powers are greta on a Wolrd with no Magic.. would they become much Greater on Rifts that had Mega-Magic?

She isn't a creature of Magic nor a demon or a good. Her power source isn't influenced by magic, infact it seems hampered in magic's presence. I think HP+SDC=MDC on a point to point conversion would accurate, SDC damage values for her attacks would equate point for point into MDC, those things are pretty clear. But after that... Psionics as your main weapon is somewhat limited, it's using them to enhance your other abilities that make them so deadly. And she is badly outclassed there.

Technically neither are Psychics in PFRPG or BTS... but they do become a ton more powerful on Rifts... Shes out Classed by Greater intelligneces Like Splynn, and Merylynnyn... but Still not a Slouch... She could Pertty Much take out the CS.... Making an Allaince wiht another power is he best bet... one that non-human.

I'd call her an Alien Intelligence... if she Picked up magic... she'd have 100Million Willing PPE doners... Just becasue the FOL is halted by the leylines... dosent Mean Protoculture is... her Abilities are Protoculture based... beside her Psionics, Her Alchemy is very Close to Magic...
and the Ability to Place something in a Stasis Bubble that si smaller then 60 feet is a big bonus.

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:53 pm

Zerebus wrote:Nothing quite like a deity who mass produces his/her own worshippers...

Exactly... she is very much Like a god... shes even a Religious Zealot against the "Shadow"...

She also Pre-dates Rifts, and theres was no reason for Palladium to Place a Lable on her... "Fairy", "Deamon", "God", or "Creature of Magic"... she Fits all of them and none of them... her true form is a Ball of Psionic Energy, that Descimates Cities and Continents.

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:32 pm

Zerebus wrote:Well, she seems to derive much of that power from protoculture, as well as the psychic link to her "minions" (using that term loosely).

She Desimates the Earth before she gets ahold of a new supply of the FOL... She seams incredibly powerful before she gets the FOL.

Eryk Stormbright · Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:40 pm

*thinks and nods to self* i am getting some truely good ideas from this thread, and i thank everyone that's posted. hehe i love this stuff

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:45 pm

Zerebus wrote:Funny, I thought she still had the old supply to power that.

Thats not implied by the Series... (Discounting the Sentinels... becasue it conflicts with everything in the Series)
She may have had a limited supply on Optera (the second home world)... but thats debatable...
Regis: "ehold – I am the Invid. I am the soul and the spirit. I have guided my people across the measureless cosmos from a world that was lost to a world that was found. I have led my people in fight from the dark tide of shadow that engulfed our forefathers, that threatens to engulf us even now. I am the power and the light. I am the embodiment of the life force, the creator-protector. In the terminology of your people, I am…the Mother. Ariel, it is true. You are a traitor. Was it you who led these children of the shadow to the Hive?"
Ariel: "Yes, But you must see now that they are not children of the shadow, that they have a life force that is almost as strong as our own."

The way she Talks... she is a single representation of her 100Milllion children...
Even Ariel is Like corg and the others... she See the Humans as Lessers... thou a bit better then Scum.

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:51 pm

Zerebus wrote:
Eryk Stormbright wrote:*thinks and nods to self* i am getting some truely good ideas from this thread, and i thank everyone that's posted. hehe i love this stuff

Oh heck, place a deity in charge of the Marduk, give the Marduk a total of 1 million ships remaining post Macross II events, give the Marduk command over 500 or so combined Zentran and Meltran fleets of 500,000 each, and start calculating the total number of worshippers said uber deity would have.

lol... Aspu... he runs the Marduk.....

Whats bad about Regis... "Her" Single Attack... did as Much Damage as 5 Million Zent ships did with the Rain of death.
after she got rid of the Larg numbers of humans... she rebuilt the enviroment... and dug out the Gulf of Mexico.

"When we sensed the first indications of the protoculture resources on this world, we thought that, at last, we had found the home for which we searched. We called together all our people scattered through galaxies to begin life anew on this planet. We rebuilt a world that had nearly been destroyed by evil"

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:33 pm

Zerebus wrote:The Invid haven't been inactive in their time before arriving on Earth.

Actually...thats not what I took from the bridge crewman's words. I took it to mean that the REF had encountered and fought the Invid elsewhere in the galaxy. I will say, though, that the dialogue from Robotech pretty much rules out the Pioneer Mission/REF having encountered the Invid in deep space before the end of the 2nd Robotech War. Otherwise General Leonard would not have reacted the way he did in The Invid Connection when the Masters informed him that the Invid were on their way.

One would imagine that either the Zentraedi, Major Carpenter or Colonel Wolfe would have warned the UEG and UEF about a hostile alien species that they encountered during the comm blackout in the 2nd Robotech War. From the way the UEG's best scientists react during the war, one gets the impression the Pioneer Mission mainly encountered hostile Zentraedi or Zentraedi-strain humans.

Colonel Wolfe · Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:51 am

Zerebus wrote:Well, I had the impression that since the Zentraedi were a warrior race hell bent on living war and only war, they had to have been waging war against something out there. If not the Invid, then there's a lovely void to be filled.

Dose it have to be Filled?
the Zents prolly spend the Majority of the Time in Stasis... Dolza woke up the whole Fleet to Go after earth.. and Take out Breetia's Fleet...

glitterboy2098 · Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:19 am

except you don't build a 5 million or so ship fleet with hundreds of millions of troops unless you expect to fight SOMEONE.

so it's still either the invid or unknown group A.

so either the zents were made to fight the invid, or they were made on the OFFCHANCE that they would fight the invid, given what we know from the show.

Colonel Wolfe · Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:55 am

glitterboy2098 wrote:except you don't build a 5 million or so ship fleet with hundreds of millions of troops unless you expect to fight SOMEONE.

so it's still either the invid or unknown group A.

so either the zents were made to fight the invid, or they were made on the OFFCHANCE that they would fight the invid, given what we know from the show.

Nothing in the Series supports the Invid or the Zents ever encountred each other..... beyond bad Secondary sources.

By the GN, the Zents worked as the Master armed guard... but they also grew their Ships fomr Dolza's mothership.... and the Humans Encountred Bioroids on the SDF-1.. 40ft bioroids at that...

The Zent Simply fought someone, but it dosent matter... They never go in to detail about any enemy... but if they knew of the SDF-1's purpose... knew the Invid would come for what was onboard the SDF-1... Keeping the GN canon makes Breetai a Blant Traitor.. as his failure to inform the Earth of the Recent Invid threat to the Masters and the Zentradi.. and a Possible Threat to the Earth... as Well as Important Tactical Data about the Master Empire. Breetai knew of Zor, knew he was Micronian... and had key information on the SDF-1... how come no one in earth Gov knew what the Bioroids were? or has any idea the masters could invade?

too many problems with the GN/Sentinels time lines & having the Zents Fighting an enemy & working side by side with the Masters.

According to the GN, Breetai knew about the Protoculture Factory... and was to get to it before the invid did.... but in 2030 Humanity was clueless to its presence on the SDF-1? and Breetia left it on earth? Knowing the Invid would come for it?

glitterboy2098 · Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:01 pm

i'm ignoring the sentinals. and the graphic novels (non-canon, and badly done at that.)

but logically....

the robotech masters command the Zent's
the zents have a massive fleet.
the masters know of the invid and fear them.
the masters don't develop a special anti-invid mecha until after the zent fleets destruction.

thus, we can assume that the Invid were a major source of worry for the masters, and that they appeared to have little actual fear of fighting them until the protoculture factory was found and they new the zent's were destroyed.

and even if the zent's never fought the invid (and it's possable that the masters may not have either.), it makes sense that the masters would have had contingency plans in the event the Invid attacked, and the zent's were needed to fight the invid.

so even if the zents were made to fight unknown enemy A they would have been informed that the invid exist, and know at least how they are beleived to fight, just in case.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:06 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:except you don't build a 5 million or so ship fleet with hundreds of millions of troops unless you expect to fight SOMEONE.

so it's still either the invid or unknown group A.

Well.....5 million ships would kick the ever loving crap out of the Invid. They simply would have no chance against a force that size. Besides, the series itself tells us the answer:

eps. #29 The Robotech Masters

Bioroid Terminator: My lords, we may have found Zor's battlefortress.

Masters Triumvirate: Good!

Bioroid Terminator: Furthermore, my lords, a routine scan of the 4th Quadrant indicates a large discharge of protoculture mass.

Master #1: There are two possibilities: Either the Disciples of Zor have found the abandoned protoculture factory and have begun a new offensive against our Zentraedi warriors or the Invid have beaten us to the prize and now control the production of protoculture.

Master #2: I believe that is highly unlikely. All logic circuits suggest that the Invid have no knowledge of the whereabouts of Zor's battlefortress at this time.

Master #3: Then we must assume that the Zentraedi have indeed found the protoculture factory, ensuring a future for our Robotechnology.

Master #1 But, only if they were able to capture the ship intact.

Master #2 My only fear would be that Zor's Disciples may have mastered the inner secrets of Robotech and were able to defeat Dolza's vast armada.

Master #3 One ship against 4 million? Most unlikely. Nearly impossible.

Master #1 If they could invert the Robotech barrier system, an overload could possibly Dolza's entire fleet.

Master #3 In order to do that, Zor's Disciples would have to know as much about that Robotech ship as we.

Notice that the Masters don't KNOW that the SDF-1 is on the Earth. They believe it is, meaning they were out of contact with Dolza. Also, they state Invid could control protoculture production, not have kicked Dolza's arse. They are worried about a group called The Disciples of Zor, with whom they are/or have been at war with (begun a new offensive against the Zentraedi).

Some dismiss the DoZ as meaning simply the humans of the Earth. It isnt because they say 'a new offensive'. Its clear, however, that the DoZ probably don't have technology quite as sophisticated as the Masters. They likely have older tech about on par with the Zentraedi....meaning no inertialess propulsion, shipboard wormholes, biotech ship components and the other exotic technology the Masters are shown to possess in Robotech. It would also appear that they lack shields as well.

In all likelyhood, the DoZ are Zentraedi-strain humans or could even be Zentraedi that are controlled by ancient Zor humans (since Tirol appears to be where the Masters are 'from', though all humans HAVE to be originally descended from Earth humans. The Masters are a subspecies of Homo Sapiens).

Colonel Wolfe · Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:50 pm

Zerebus wrote:I must admit that even with the Regis' all powerful "vaporize everything in my path as I arrive or leave" attack wouldn't be enough to dent the Zentraedi main fleet; her path simply isn't large enough.

yep... she took out half the REf fleet... maybe 20 ships?

she'd be lucky to get 10,000 Zent ships... if they were bunched up.

and As Rabid points out, the "unknown" enemy is the DOZ.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:05 am

Mike Taylor wrote:This question has been asked several times in the Rifts and Robotech forums. However, you should be aware that, in the unrevised Rifts Conversion Book (out of print), it is said that the Flower of Life can not grow within 100 miles of a ley line or ley line nexus. Also, you'll have to factor in that there are places where the plant just doesn't grow well even without the presence of ley lines. A good rule of thumb is that if it can't grow in that region on Robotech Earth, it can't grow there on Rifts Earth.

Even if the Invid did invade, they would get plastered fairly easily by the locals. An Invid Shock Trooper only has 80 M.D.C., making it fairly weak in comparison to comparably sized Rifts Earth robots and creatures.

Remember though they evolve rapidly and mimic the indiginus technology. So now imagine an Invid Glitterboy.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:09 am

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
The_Spirit wrote:
Zerebus wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:Hmmm.... Invid invasion on Rifts Earth.... how well do the Peoples of Rifts Stop Annilation attacks (Ala Macross-Canon) like the Regis used on 90% of the earth and Every Major Populus Center?

I suspect that the City of Splynn has a method of surviving/averting an attack of that type, and cities like Dweomer could be missed entirely. Most everything else would be toast...

Tolkeen had similar defenses, so either it would survive or Splynn would die...

The only thing i can think of from robotech that can stop the Powers of an Assault the level the Regis used would be the Omni-Directional Barrier on the SDF-1.... Unfortunatly I prolly wouldnt halt it... No matter how much Damage a Force feild and stop... it would eventually Fail under somethign that powerful.

but Leaving a Few poeple on rifts earth would be intresting... plus all the Death qould Just shatter the Planet.... A death toll on the Scale Robotech-earth Faced in the Invid invasion would Flare the already powerful Leylines to incredible Heights.... and Introduce Giga-Damage Magic.

Hey no reason to start using Rifter 9.5 :lol:

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:20 am

Lt. Holmes wrote:So let's even the odds a bit. Invid Swarm vs the Glitter Boy Legions of Free Quebec. And what the heck, let's toss Triax into the mix, too. Get all the GOOD Earth GBs in on it

What Japan and Mutant's in Orbit GBs not good enough to join the group?