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I too use the NB can't be sensed as SN in Facade I do however disagree that they can mate and have a NB child. Because that doesn't seem to be how it works for the NB all NB are orphans that is said somewhere in the NB books.

Other house rules? um well I haven't run or played RL games in years so I have forgotten most of mine.

When making the characters I don't allow my players to choose more than 3 stat building Nightbane characteristics. This is mostly for game balance and a little to make them think harder about how to deal with NPCs.

Oh yeah when it comes to NB PC's I always make them work with me (when I GMed) to make sure that it fit with their idea of what they wanted for their NB chara and so that it wouldn't be Munchie or overbalancing.

Interesting that so many people have NightBane not being sensed with Presence Sense while in Facade form. I had always wondered myself, and thought the way the book described things (something about psychics being able to detect NightBane) that they might be, but it was never explicit. For those who have in their games that Presence Sense doesn't detect them, what about Aura Sight? Does that show anything odd?

For Palladium Games in general, I use the old Beyond the Supernatural PPE recovery system: you regain all of your PPE in 24 hours, independant of what you actually do (rest, eat, swim, ballroom dancing, combat). You gain a quarter of it every 24 hours (slightly different, it was in 12 hour chunks in BtSN).

For ISP, I have psychics recover all of it after 8 hours of sleep. (WIth 50% at 4 hours, 75% at 6.)

I am in the process of making all house rules known formally to the players, but they basically are in line with making Nightbane compatible to HUII. So, when it says 'supernatural PS' then assume in HU it's Extraordinary (use the lift/carry as a guideline. Can a 'Bane lift/carry 500X/300X? No, they can't).
Things like presense sense, and lore:Nightbane and stuff I have to make final rulings on, and I am still listening to players presenting their cases.

ok See Aura I haven't had a PC use on a bane so I haven't made a ruling yet but the Talent of See Truth does reveal NB

The ONLY thing I can, pardon the pun, see See Aura detecting on a 'bane's facade is that the aura is more... vibrant... somehow, yet completely human (or elven, dwarven, gnomish,etc)

yeah I agree that in facade a Bane's aura would look different. but it would take someone that was knowledgeable of nightbane to be able to figure out and have seen a nightbane's aura before.

So far the only trouble I have with Nightbane characters is their Player wants to use Player knowledge to the benefit of his character. I have altered the origins, and events of the books so much, that this is only a problem irregularly, although it does lend itself to having to repeatedly state : "I'm not using that plotline. Things are not like they are in the Meta-Plot of Nightbane in my campaign."
Besides, with the cross-pollenating I do with HUII and N&SS and BtS, there have to be some alterations.

Quoth marc, "...but the Talent of See Truth does reveal NB..."

Well, yes, but then one Nightbane simply looking at another and being in range reveals that -- no PPE spent or Talents activated; they just sort of know. Hey, wasn't there a medevil thread somewhere? Isn't that like the way all witches supposedly knew each other?

Doesn't Aura Sight show PPE as well? Not specifics, but given that the average Nightbane has over 10x the PPE of the average adult, that's gotta add to the odd coloration they must have already.

In general, Nightbane in facade form are able to hide in the Shadowlands if they shamble around with the Dopplegangers, so I'd say they detect about the same. (Well, not exactly the same, but the same level of how easy they are to detect.) Personally, I still think both should be detectable with Presense Sense or the like. Psychics are supposed to be able to detect them, after all, and that's really the way they would. Pre-becoming, no, they blend in perfectly, but after they definately move form that mold and become more "active" in the whoel supernatural creature way.

I don't think that Presence sense would reveal a NB in facade seeing as how in Facade they are nothing more than a human with alot of PPE.

If I ever run Nightbane again, I'm ditching the sadly-inferior and outdated Palladium system entirely and using Silver Age Sentinels as the rule set. Does that count as house rules?

I have only a few. Top of the list is Psychics, all psionic powers are as per Rifts RPG, just change them point for point to SDC. Second, psychic character class, all Rifts PCCs are avaiable on Nightbane Earth, with GM approval.

on the see aura note, it would pick up on the high level of P.P.E bane have which maybe enough to perk some curoisity, espically since (in most cases) the same See Aura will pick up no magic, things to watch out 4

As far as house rules go I usually throw out palladium's skrewy skill system and replace it with a ranking system. I never thought so much about whether or not a psychic could discover a nightbane before. Since there is little question on whether a hound can sense a Nightbane in facade. And, a hound encounter is almost always going to happen in my nightbane games.

The not sensing NB with Sense the SuperNatural when they are in their facade is but a Clarification, not a house rule. This is because NB/NS are only supernat in their morphius.

And while read aura will give the reader the bane's PPE level, the ppe level by itself tell the reader that the char is a bane, the char could be a mage hiding his magic, or some demon or angel.

While a hound might be able to still follow a bane's Psycic trail after he has returned to his facade...it is only to as well as if following a human's.

Prsence sense will read a Bane in their facade as a human. Untill they change to their morphius, then they will read as a SupNat.

Yes a bane's arua looks different then human's, if you've read the text in the books you would know they have a funky aura. But then agine any non-human's aura would look funky to a human.

While the NB SNPS is not the same as HU's SNPA, you should just use the NB fomula to figuer out how strong they are.....maybe call it BanePS....blah blah blah...etc.. You're the GM so I'm just voicing my 2 cents worth.

For Palladium Games in general, I use the old Beyond the Supernatural PPE recovery system: you regain all of your PPE in 24 hours, independant of what you actually do (rest, eat, swim, ballroom dancing, combat). You gain a quarter of it every 24 hours (slightly different, it was in 12 hour chunks in BtSN).

For ISP, I have psychics recover all of it after 8 hours of sleep. (WIth 50% at 4 hours, 75% at 6.)

I like this and hate it....when having low base PPE hates it...and high base PPE loves it I do like the BTS rules for gathering PPE on a LL or LLN. PPE per Melee round...not that Rifts trash about PPE per HOUR. blech.

I played under a GM with the Bane as just another race with all their reproducive stuff working right. I don't like the expanation the writer gave about the Bane being some sort of "ghosts of fomless ones". So to me they are another race.

A nice house rule we use is based on the emotional aspect of the nightbane, like it says at the beginning of the book emotions play an important part in the change and in some cases trigger it.

A nice touch 4 inexperienced bane (say level 4 or lower) is giving them an ME check when in an really emotional situation or they may shift depending on the emotion,

for example: Our young hero has just been hit & run by a doppelganger he has been tracking for sometime. Though not seriously injuried his angry starts to build, combine this with the frustration of the pursuit makes his anger like a keg on a timer. He finally corners the doppleganger at his house but b4 the man can plead 4 his life the facade burst forth in his morphous, his angry fuelling his change. The doppleganger freaks, places one good blow on the nightbane and turns to run. the nightbane in his anger slaps the doppleganger to the side, he moves in to finsh this when out of nowhere the man's child runs in (the real mans, dirty, dirty dopplegangers.) Jumps on his Dad and yells at the monster to leave him alone. This hits the emotionally confused nightbane like a sledgehammer as the sight of the boy pleading for his fathers life snaps him out of his rage into a cold realisation that he was becoming a monster, this realisation comes with an understanding of control and the morphous reciedes to show the facade stood there horror etched on his face, his powers barley under control.

I love playing the struggle of the new bane, the horror of the morphous and the fact they may be monsters, indeed some go that way embracing the power of that monster. But others manage to keep that duality managing to mantain there humanity even if it is cloaked in the body of a monster.

most of you have seen the hulk to know what am on about, just is no where as extreme as that.

Bannar: Oww, I stubbed my toe on that wall.....anger building
Hulk: HULK SMASH WALL!!!!!!!

hehehehehe

I likeys that idea Judas consider it stoled.

Anytime mate

Drew, I'm sorry, but I don't understand you.

Facade: the human form of the Nightbane, that one he was born with.

Morphus: the freak or angel the human turns into.

Are you saying that while in the facade/human form, that our Nightbane hero will set off Presence Sense?

From everything I have read in the basic rule book, I get the impression that a Nightbane in human/facade form will set off Presense Sense and show up funky in Aura Sight. Even in human form, they aren't truely, actually human. And they do have supernatural abilities, although not terribly much (see in the dark and detect others of you own kind, both at a reduced range, plus any of the terribly few Talents like Mirror Sight that actually work in human/facade form).

However, that supernatural aura is greatly reduced in human/facade form. They are appearantly really wiffy in freak/Morphus, for it mentions a "strong supernatural aura" in the description of the Hounds. In one of the sections on the Nightlands, Nightbane can easy "hide" in human/facade form because of this reduction and the fact that everything there is a at least a low power supernatural critter (like, say, Dopplegengers). I don't think Hounds can tell a Nightbane is a Nightbane at all in human/facade form. At close range, they can probably tell they are supernatural creatures, but that's about it, and given the Dopplegangers running around post-Dark Day, that's probably enough to hide you socially if you play your cards right or don't freak out when they walk in concealed form onto the subway.

I've talked about this a lot. Please don't take my opinion as a not valuing of yours. I've enjoying reading what all of you have done in your games, and how things work there.

One final note: perhaps this is a hold-over from having played Beyond the Supernatural, but I seem to recall that these psychic sensing powers -- Presense Sense and Sense Evil specfiically -- also tended to alert the thing you were detecting. I think the amount of information that they get about you is about the same as you get about them, too. So, if you use Presense Sense and can tell there is a SOMETHING HERE... AHH!... perhaps close... then what you are detecting can tell that something is detecting it... perhaps close...

Anyway, if that's the case (and I'm not sure if it is in Nightbane, but I always liked it, even if it got a character of mine hospitalized once or twice), then Nightbane would/should have the same deal going on. They might not understand it consciously unless they'd been around psychics, and it wouldn't happen with Sense Evil (since they don't show up on it), but it shoudl work that way with Presence Sense.

I've always thought that this would make for an interesting scenerio. Useful for PC introductions or intro'ing an NPC or situation.

Sanctu wrote:Drew, I'm sorry, but I don't understand you.

Facade: the human form of the Nightbane, that one he was born with.

Morphus: the freak or angel the human turns into.

Are you saying that while in the facade/human form, that our Nightbane hero will set off Presence Sense?

....'snip'...

-- Presense Sens -- also tended to alert the thing you were detecting. I think the amount of information that they get about you is about the same as you get about them, too. So, if you use Presense Sense and can tell there is a SOMETHING HERE... AHH!... perhaps close... then what you are detecting can tell that something is detecting it... perhaps close...

Well Presence Sesne is like always 'on' (continuious) in a basic sense, then if you want to find out 'more' you consentrate ("turn it on", ie: use ISP) to detect more accuratly what is there and distigish between the genral numbers of SupNat and humans(mundains).

[ie: the char with PS goes about their life (reads as non-active psi) untill oh...their is something 'weird'/'dangeruse' out their and concentrate to sense what is it is. (this makes the PSI ability read as active) Then the psi gets a better "look" at what is out there were so many ppl there and a ooops...gottan run now....its after me.......having allerted what wasn't right to his presense. This is how a Psi might react to sensing a bane in their morphius.
ie: the psi gets a 'feeling' they are not alone and concenntrates to see better...and only senses a few humans. Going on his way or going over to them w/o knowing the group were actully a group of bane, in their facades, out on a camp out that the psi got close to.]

What I was saying about Bane and their facade...is that with persesnce sense they will not be detected as the SupNat while in their facade, they Will be decected as mundains.

As for Sense Evil/Good, they only detect SupNat Evil and SupNat Good. If the Bane is evil (or Good) and in their facade Sense Evil will not detect. them

C.R.A.F.T., I thought that they couldn't. That's why Nightbane in the Nightlands can exists if they shift to their Facade and play zombie around the Dopplegangers: the Hounds and such don't "smell" their supernatural aura, which is noted to be quite powerful in Morphus. If they are tracking the Nightbane, who shifts to Morphus to hide, then they might be able to continue to tracking him down, at the very least find the point where he shifted forms.

Personally, I don't agree that Nightbane are completely mundane in their facade form. They aren't human, even then, just much lower key. (No radiating their supernaturalness like a Dabuk radiates Evil.) In Beyond the Supernatural, things which can hide from Psychics by either embedding themselves in a human host/corpse, or transfoming into a human, are mentioned specifically as not being detected by stuff. Nightbane doesn't mention any of that.

If this was specfically mentioned ina Rifter or suppliment I don't have, let me know. I consider how you, reader and GM, handle it as a house rule... and an important one to know ahead of time for game play. I can see the other point of view (ie. facade is mundane and doesn't detect because it's designed to be), but after the Becoming, I just don't agree with it.

Besides, it's mroe fun to have the psychic on the subway crank up the detection becuase she feels "something" and looks up to see our hero looking back at her, as if saying, "What?"

Addendum:

And yes, far as I've read, other Nightbane can, if they are within range, recognize just by looking at you (no roll, no concentration, it just happens) that you are another Nightbane, even if you are in Facade. It's like PC glow, although it doesn't work pre-Becoming (of course).

Sanctu wrote:Addendum:

And yes, far as I've read, other Nightbane can, if they are within range, recognize just by looking at you (no roll, no concentration, it just happens) that you are another Nightbane, even if you are in Facade. It's like PC glow, although it doesn't work pre-Becoming (of course).

Yes your right bud but you got me thinking, the See Truth talent can recognize a latent Nightbane which in turn leads to this question: Normally the change occurs when the 'latent bane' is emotionally pushed be it life & death, fear, anger. Now if a bane does See Truth and recognises the 'latent' bane can he/her train that bane and bring about the becoming without the emotional trauma that usually occurs, now as I type this it would be a bit like the Athanous?

So what do people think

I think that See Truth still won't reveal anything. With See Truth, when you use it on a Nightbane, you see what their Morphus looks like. Pre-Becoming, the Nightbane doesn't have a Morphus yet, and there is no real predicting what it will be. This is, in my opinion, a time when the supernatural critter is perfectly hidden as a human.

Now, records of being adopted by the same agency where a lot of Nightbane were adopted from... hmm...

Sanctu wrote:I think that See Truth still won't reveal anything. With See Truth, when you use it on a Nightbane, you see what their Morphus looks like. Pre-Becoming, the Nightbane doesn't have a Morphus yet, and there is no real predicting what it will be. This is, in my opinion, a time when the supernatural critter is perfectly hidden as a human.

Now, records of being adopted by the same agency where a lot of Nightbane were adopted from... hmm...

I thought that too but if you read see turth it states that it can recognise bane that have yet to go through the becoming.

now that Adoption Agency idea is a cracking one, "Wicked Laugh" me thinks me will use that, thanks Sanctu

Hey Nerdbane!

In my game there are basically three ways to get "knocked out" in hand to hand combat:

1-the attacker uses a "knock out/stun" move. You can get this from the boxing skill, or H2H skill (the poor Nightbane can't get it til level 13!!!

2- Reach EXACTLY 0 HP. I can't remember where i read this, but i think i read it somewhere (Villains unlimited maybe? Possibly only my own game at this point...). So if you're lucky (and this has happened in my game a couple times, just by chance) you can just get beaten down to it.

3- Fail a save versus pain. (Which comes from Ninjas and Superspies) I have people save versus pain anytime they take hit point damage or take a large amount of damage all at once (you know like getting your face shoved through a wall...)
i think the save is 14 or better, use ME bonuses, or if more appropriate: PE.
--[Ok OK, so i don't have people roll every time they take HP damage, just whenever i (or they) feel like it...]--
BTW: Outstanding name...best in a while!

Welcome, Nerdbane. Nice to see a new person here. Great name.

Welcome Nerdbane

Hello, Clarice.