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turns out its not an RV with lots of weapons systems and armor built in

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2005321.asp

Turns out that if your not dedicated to turning a city into the surface of the moon, then tanks are surpisingly usefull after all.

The russians seem to have been developing some modified tanks for use in urban combat. Some of them are basically APCs with armour capable of stoping an RPG. Others are clsoer to traditional tanks but use different armament arrangements allowing them to be more flexible to urban combat and to engage targets that would normally be in the blind spot of the big gun.

Incidentaly what was I refering too in my above post

(its showed up in two diferent fiction works incidentaly that I know of)

Agreed.

I do not know much about tanks, but it seems tread can easily come off when driving over sharp rubble obstacles.

But tires are vulnerable, too. However, a flat tire is not as bad as no tread, I would think.

Yea, and the winebago from Stripes was pretty cool.

Well the loss of a tire can be pretty bad, though it in part depends on the configuration of the vehicle. The loss of a tire on a 4 wheeled vehicle is much more serious than the loss of a tire on an 8 wheeled vehicle. Of course if the tire is on one of the wheels used to steer the vehicle, it's more serious than not.

A driver who acts rashley or stupidly can easily throw the tank off a tank. But then again, the same behavoir would cause problems in a wheeled vehicle too. Most modern tanks have been designed with some 70+ years of armoured warfare experience in minds, including ways to reduce the odds of a track getting tossed. Amoung other things, they've improved the structural strength of the tracks, reducing the odds that they will break apart over difficult terrain. Improved track guiding mechanism help kepp the tracks from sliding off the sides. The odds of a tank shredding a track are a lot less than what they once were.

Of course no weapon system is invincible. In Iraq we've seen M-1A2s that have been "killed" by IEDs and by RPGs.

Jefffar wrote:Well the loss of a tire can be pretty bad, though it in part depends on the configuration of the vehicle. The loss of a tire on a 4 wheeled vehicle is much more serious than the loss of a tire on an 8 wheeled vehicle. Of course if the tire is on one of the wheels used to steer the vehicle, it's more serious than not.

A driver who acts rashley or stupidly can easily throw the tank off a tank. But then again, the same behavoir would cause problems in a wheeled vehicle too. Most modern tanks have been designed with some 70+ years of armoured warfare experience in minds, including ways to reduce the odds of a track getting tossed. Amoung other things, they've improved the structural strength of the tracks, reducing the odds that they will break apart over difficult terrain. Improved track guiding mechanism help kepp the tracks from sliding off the sides. The odds of a tank shredding a track are a lot less than what they once were.

Of course no weapon system is invincible. In Iraq we've seen M-1A2s that have been "killed" by IEDs and by RPGs.

Actualy most tracked units now days can run off the tracks in cities and run on their road wheels in the city. but only on pavement

They can, but it's not a good idea - for the tank or the pavement.

That's not a new concept either. The Christie tanks back in the 1920's and 1930's were designed to convert between wheels and treads in a few minutes.

Well it allready can carry a half squad if they ditch the extra ammo for the big gun. Given the way the israelies make their current APCs, i'd expect that when the Merkava becomes outdated as an MB it will make the transition to full APC.

There's a couple of Ukranian tanks that are similar - not as heavy armour though.

Drakenred wrote:turns out its not an RV with lots of weapons systems and armor built in

Who am I going to believe...
You, or the movie "Stripes?"

When it comes to plausible Sci-fi, urban warfare is probably the only theatre in which a mecha would out perform a tank of a similar tonnage and technology level.

The Unmmaned Air Vehicle or the dune buggy?


Neither of them could be considered part of an urban assault.

The UAV is built to provide aerial reconascience - no armament

The dune buggy is built to provide SOF troops with mobility and the ability to carry heavy infantry support weapons (ie .50 mgs, 40 mm automatic grenade launchers, ATGW). It's got no armour and would be chewed up the momment it tried to roll down a contested street in urban fighting.

Even if it is armoured, it won't be armoured enough. Heck, it probably won't ea s tough as the armoured Hummer.

That thing's palce is out in the wilderness, where it can avoid being seen or use its full speed to avoid being hit. In a city it will have to move up an down streets clogged with debris. As a result it will loose its speed and its stealth. An RPG will take care of the rest.

Of course it can cover nasty terrain. I expect no less.


However it will need to take the sorts of adverse terrain you get in an urban battlefield slowly - making it a sitting duck.

Probably.

I guess we'll just have to see how they get deployed.

For all those who may be wondering

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_Shadow,,00.html


The electric engines are a great idea quite and low heat signature. If you cant hear them comming ambushes are a great possibility. Now imagine this vehicle with all silenced weapons! Long range thermal scope on a .50 for taking out snipers.

Basically it has to be RPG proof. If they can make that we may have a new urban fighting vehicle![/url]

Not a urban assault vehicle, more of the Shadow....

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ ... nizing.htm