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Quester wrote:Can someone/anyone explain to me why some skills are OCC specific? I understand in the Fantasy game having weapons only used by a certain OCC but in Rifts for example their are skills that are only used by one OCC and no other that do not make sense. For example in Rifts World Book 26: Dinosaur Swamp the Pathfinder OCC is given the skill of Cartography. Now call me crazy but that is a skill that any and all goverments will want to have for obvious reasons. Someone please explain this to me like I am a five year old with out saying "Because I or they say so."

Possible Reasons:

1]] The Author of THIS Book may have simply overlooked whatever Cartography's equivalent in Rifts is and used the proper Nomenclature for same. IS there already such a thing as a Mapmaker Skill in Rifts? I don't know.

2]] This particular Author decided to add a Detail, in this case, an OCC Skill, that other People in other Books hadn't thought of including in a Rifts Book yet.

3]] Perhaps nobody (and by this I mean Players in the Real World) ever wanted Cartography (Map Maker, for you "laymen" out there) as a separate Skill before Dinosaur Swamp; maybe there were enough requests to the folks at Palladium for them to finally warrant it. Remember, virtually NONE of us want to really know about the inner workings of the Governments that we interact with. As long as the Blade stays sharp and the Weps fire reliably, that's all most of us care about.

4]] For most of us, "Cartography" is about as useful a Skill to know FOR ACTUAL GAMEPLAY as "Laissez-faire Capitalism" or "Greek Architecture in the 24th Century." It simply isn't relevant to flying that SAMAS or Psychic Jaunting on the Astral Plane....

cornholioprime wrote:Possible Reasons:

1]] The Author of THIS Book may have simply overlooked whatever Cartography's equivalent in Rifts is and used the proper Nomenclature for same. IS there already such a thing as a Mapmaker Skill in Rifts? I don't know.

That was simply one example of OCCs with skills. Take a look at the True Samurai in Japan, Gunslinger in New West, Tribal Warrior in Spirit West, Huntsman-Trapper in Warlords of Russia, Bushman in Australia, Headhunter Anti-Robot Specialist in Canada, and most of the classes in China 2 (among many others). You'll see all of them have some skill or other as a special ability/power/what-have-you.

2]] This particular Author decided to add a Detail, in this case, an OCC Skill, that other People in other Books hadn't thought of including in a Rifts Book yet.

That doesn't explain why it was included as an OCC ability, rather than a flat out skill.

3]] Perhaps nobody (and by this I mean Players in the Real World) ever wanted Cartography (Map Maker, for you "laymen" out there) as a separate Skill before Dinosaur Swamp; maybe there were enough requests to the folks at Palladium for them to finally warrant it. Remember, virtually NONE of us want to really know about the inner workings of the Governments that we interact with. As long as the Blade stays sharp and the Weps fire reliably, that's all most of us care about.

Not an answer either, because I remember a post about what it would take to do cartography on the PF forum a while back.

4]] For most of us, "Cartography" is about as useful a Skill to know FOR ACTUAL GAMEPLAY as "Laissez-faire Capitalism" or "Greek Architecture in the 24th Century." It simply isn't relevant to flying that SAMAS or Psychic Jaunting on the Astral Plane....

Speak for yourself. I use any and every skill I can get my hands on, and consider not finding a way to work a skill into a game a personal failure on my part, either as the GM or the player.

I agree with KS and I mean the Ninja KS as in that one ^ above me.

I think the main reason is that it's an attempt to make that OCC "special." When you get down to it, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between OCCs in Rifts other than skill selection/number. If you want to create an OCC that specializes in (or at least has that as one aspect) Mapmaking, you can either make a new skill which would then be open to everyone else, or you can make a special "this OCC-only" skill. In the first case, you've just robbed this new OCC of that special something, because any rogue scientist/scholar, along with a couple dozen other OCCs, just got access to it.

PigLick

PigLickJF wrote:I think the main reason is that it's an attempt to make that OCC "special."

One of the prime reasons it shouldn't be done.

When you get down to it, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between OCCs in Rifts other than skill selection/number.

I'd have to disagree to a point. Certainly there's tons of OCCs that could be eliminated simply through offering different skill packages (starting with the variant versions of certain OCCs). However, there's also the power angle, be it magic, psionics, chi (such as it is), bionic augmentation, Juicer augmentation, Crazy augmentation, genetic/magic/whatever augmentation, etc to differentiate between many of the classes. Throwing in race (but not, however RCCs, which should be abolished) can give you even more differentiation in classes.

If you want to create an OCC that specializes in (or at least has that as one aspect) Mapmaking, you can either make a new skill which would then be open to everyone else, or you can make a special "this OCC-only" skill.

Or you can take literacy and art, and do your own cartography.

In the first case, you've just robbed this new OCC of that special something, because any rogue scientist/scholar, along with a couple dozen other OCCs, just got access to it.
PigLick

If a skill is what makes that OCC special, then that's a big reason the OCC shouldn't have been included.

BTW, where's the second case (or more)?

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

When you get down to it, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between OCCs in Rifts other than skill selection/number.

I'd have to disagree to a point. Certainly there's tons of OCCs that could be eliminated simply through offering different skill packages (starting with the variant versions of certain OCCs). However, there's also the power angle, be it magic, psionics, chi (such as it is), bionic augmentation, Juicer augmentation, Crazy augmentation, genetic/magic/whatever augmentation, etc to differentiate between many of the classes. Throwing in race (but not, however RCCs, which should be abolished) can give you even more differentiation in classes.

Well, yah, I was mainly talking about the first type. The "power angle" is basically the one thing that does distinguish the classes in Rifts. Part of my point, however, was that these OCC-only "skills" are part of the "power angle" of that class. Making them general skills everyone could get would be sort of akin to allowing anyone to strap on a Juicer harness and get the juicer bonuses. They wouldn't have a Juicer's equipment or skills, but they'd still be getting the "special feature" of the class. (That's a bit of an extreme example obviously).

If you want to create an OCC that specializes in (or at least has that as one aspect) Mapmaking, you can either make a new skill which would then be open to everyone else, or you can make a special "this OCC-only" skill.

Or you can take literacy and art, and do your own cartography.

True, although personally as a GM, I would only allow the most rudimentaryt of maps to be made in this way. Just like in the real world. Cartography is its own field because it takes specialized knowledge, techniques, and tools, it's not something that can just be intrinsically done by anyone who can read/write and draw.

In the first case, you've just robbed this new OCC of that special something, because any rogue scientist/scholar, along with a couple dozen other OCCs, just got access to it.
PigLick

If a skill is what makes that OCC special, then that's a big reason the OCC shouldn't have been included.

I don't disagree with you there. I'm not trying to defend this practice, just explain it.

BTW, where's the second case (or more)?

Hmm, not really sure what you mean here?

PigLick

PigLickJF wrote:Hmm, not really sure what you mean here?

PigLick

I'm talking about this:

In the first case...
SNIP

It looks like you were going somewhere with this, but that sentence is it for the thought.

It could be a forgotten skill over the ages and one particular OCC does know the skill.

PigLickJF wrote:Well, yah, I was mainly talking about the first type. The "power angle" is basically the one thing that does distinguish the classes in Rifts. Part of my point, however, was that these OCC-only "skills" are part of the "power angle" of that class. Making them general skills everyone could get would be sort of akin to allowing anyone to strap on a Juicer harness and get the juicer bonuses. They wouldn't have a Juicer's equipment or skills, but they'd still be getting the "special feature" of the class. (That's a bit of an extreme example obviously).

That may be their logic behind it, but it's flawed logic.
Whatever the intent is, the result is that they are making absurd and unrealistic restrictions on every other OCC, rather than simply boosting the ability of one OCC.
Robot Mechanics is a normal skill that can be taken by any OCC that allows it. Same with MD in Cybernetics.
Why would Cartography be any harder to pick up than those skills?
Realistically, it wouldn't.

Ranger wrote:Because KS wants to make it to where only a few OCCs have that skill. Of course, I have looked at them and consider them additions to the total skill list and allow people to take them if they wish.

KS, as far as I know, didn't write Dinosaur Swamp.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

PigLickJF wrote:Hmm, not really sure what you mean here?

PigLick

I'm talking about this:

In the first case...
SNIP

It looks like you were going somewhere with this, but that sentence is it for the thought.

Ah, I see. The "first case" is the first of the two "options" I listed: making a new skill that's available to everyone (as opposed to a class-only OCC, which would have been the "second case").

PigLick