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in order for the plague to react doesn't the skin have to come in contact with the metal? So why isn't all really important metal objects covered in a coat of polyurethane?

That is utter stupidity, not you the book. If the insulation doesn't matter then people won't be able to live on the planet as there are metallic materials spread throughout the the dirt of most planets. And all the buildings in the fake cities would end up killing all the "harmless" humans living in it. its silly the inconsistancies.

Thanks though

Zer0 Kay wrote:That is utter stupidity, not you the book. If the insulation doesn't matter then people won't be able to live on the planet as there are metallic materials spread throughout the the dirt of most planets. And all the buildings in the fake cities would end up killing all the "harmless" humans living in it. its silly the inconsistancies.

Thanks though

Except they're not in 'close' contact then now are they?



Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:That is utter stupidity, not you the book. If the insulation doesn't matter then people won't be able to live on the planet as there are metallic materials spread throughout the the dirt of most planets. And all the buildings in the fake cities would end up killing all the "harmless" humans living in it. its silly the inconsistancies.

Thanks though

Except they're not in 'close' contact then now are they?



Daniel Stoker

It doesn't say close contact it even says on page 10 in the first column in the last paragraph that even thick insulation will only double the amount of time for exposure. Those living in the cities are bound to be killed. Doors, toilets the freakin frame of buildings all have metal.

Splicers humans don't live in cities - they live in either Resistance group bio-domes, underground caves, or retro-villages where any evidence of technology beyond the dark ages gets the entire village "cleansed". There is all of 1 group of humans in the book that lives above ground and isn't in a retro-village and it isn't entirely clear what they live in but it's a safe bet there's no metal involved.

Ghost Towns (only thing I can think of you'd call "fake cities") are populated entirely by robots.

Quester wrote:Another thing to cosider is this, all the metals that they are talking about are refined. The nanobot plague may also have in it's programming a directive that states that it must have contact with air (or at least one element of it) and if not then to make a sensor probe through the interferring material until it hits air or mammals.

aagh it's not just mammals it's ANY ANIMALS! Though I'd agree to the refined metals... however that doesn't solve the problem that the harmless humans that live in the simcities... can't because of the metals used in the buildings. What if a weapon comes from Rifts and never had any metal exposed to air? How are the Nanites supposed to know there is metal under all the plastic, ceramic or glass?

demos606 wrote:Splicers humans don't live in cities - they live in either Resistance group bio-domes, underground caves, or retro-villages where any evidence of technology beyond the dark ages gets the entire village "cleansed". There is all of 1 group of humans in the book that lives above ground and isn't in a retro-village and it isn't entirely clear what they live in but it's a safe bet there's no metal involved.

Ghost Towns (only thing I can think of you'd call "fake cities") are populated entirely by robots.

in the book it states that the avatar that is in charge of the cities will allow humans to live in them as long as they DO NOT interfere with the running of the city. So humans can and do live within the cities. Any tech beyond the dark ages?? You'd get killed from the plague for using anything from the iron age so how do you make anything of dark age tech?

I don't think they live in the Ghost Towns, they just come and go as they please as long as they don't disturb anything. In other words, they keep moving. That's the nature of the Plague, it requires prolonged contact. That's something I like to factor into adventures. You can try to take down that Industrial Center, but the walls and floors are made of metal so the characters need to keep moving. Rest more than a few minutes and it triggers a Nanobot Reaction.

I don't know why the Nanobot Plague pissess people off so bad. I think it's a great new creative element for gaming. People look at it too literally. The best way to think about it is that the Nanobot's are programmed to respond to very specific stimuli. It isn't just metal atoms found in nearly everything, but rather it was meant to **** off and frustrate the Resistance by denying them refined technology. The idea was to toy with them (Kali style) not just wipe them out because their blood contains iron.

Every movie, book, or game I've ever seen can have plenty of holes punched in the logic if that's all you focus on. I think the Nanabot Plague helps make Splicers a fun and unigue setting and I'm still impressed by Carmen that he thought of it in the first place.

Zer0 Kay wrote:What if a weapon comes from Rifts...

Oh. I see.

Quester wrote:No, it states mammals. There is no mention of reptiles, birds or insects being affected by the plague. Besides on of the directives was to repopulate the Earth with the extinct and nearly extinct species, if the plague killed all life then it would not be able to fullfill that directive.

Uh page 9 second column last paragraph... ANIMALS otherwise humans in Splicer parasite or any of the non-mammal based living armors as well as the warmounts could use metal... which they can't. Where are you reading from?

acreRake wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:What if a weapon comes from Rifts...

Oh. I see.

What is that supposed to mean? I wouldn't myself but there is the guy who got stuck in Splicers from Rifts personally I'd go the other way.

slappy wrote:I don't think they live in the Ghost Towns, they just come and go as they please as long as they don't disturb anything. In other words, they keep moving. That's the nature of the Plague, it requires prolonged contact. That's something I like to factor into adventures. You can try to take down that Industrial Center, but the walls and floors are made of metal so the characters need to keep moving. Rest more than a few minutes and it triggers a Nanobot Reaction.

I don't know why the Nanobot Plague pissess people off so bad. I think it's a great new creative element for gaming. People look at it too literally. The best way to think about it is that the Nanobot's are programmed to respond to very specific stimuli. It isn't just metal atoms found in nearly everything, but rather it was meant to **** off and frustrate the Resistance by denying them refined technology. The idea was to toy with them (Kali style) not just wipe them out because their blood contains iron.

Every movie, book, or game I've ever seen can have plenty of holes punched in the logic if that's all you focus on. I think the Nanabot Plague helps make Splicers a fun and unigue setting and I'm still impressed by Carmen that he thought of it in the first place.

Your right about the not making sense... especially Rifts but the always move doesn't make sense that would be like as long as you don't hold onto the same place on the spear you can continue to use it. Oh and remember it even effect silverwear which doesn't have to be refined.

Silverware isn't raw ore.....



Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:Silverware isn't raw ore.....



Daniel Stoker

silver isn't raw but you don't NEED to refine metal to use it as "silverware".

Quester wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Quester wrote:No, it states mammals. There is no mention of reptiles, birds or insects being affected by the plague. Besides on of the directives was to repopulate the Earth with the extinct and nearly extinct species, if the plague killed all life then it would not be able to fullfill that directive.

Uh page 9 second column last paragraph... ANIMALS otherwise humans in Splicer parasite or any of the non-mammal based living armors as well as the warmounts could use metal... which they can't. Where are you reading from?

Page 11, first cloumn under the heading of "Game Mechanics for Handling the Nanobot Plague"

Interesting how the two differ. So then a Non-mammal Pipedal Humanshaped warmount can use metal weapons.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:Silverware isn't raw ore.....



Daniel Stoker

silver isn't raw but you don't NEED to refine metal to use it as "silverware".

None of the metal used in silverware is raw ore either. Do you think they dig steel out of the ground?



Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:Silverware isn't raw ore.....



Daniel Stoker

silver isn't raw but you don't NEED to refine metal to use it as "silverware".

None of the metal used in silverware is raw ore either. Do you think they dig steel out of the ground?



Daniel Stoker

I am simply saying that in order to make a freaking lead fork you don't have to refine it if you find a large enough chunk and don't have to refine it from the rock. You could make it out of gold which also doesn't require refining if it is panned for. I understand that anything that is found in some other rock must be refined in order to be used. but if it's found in a raw state it doesn't. As far as I know Steel is never found, it is a man made product by adding carbon to the iron.

Quester wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Quester wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Quester wrote:No, it states mammals. There is no mention of reptiles, birds or insects being affected by the plague. Besides on of the directives was to repopulate the Earth with the extinct and nearly extinct species, if the plague killed all life then it would not be able to fullfill that directive.

Uh page 9 second column last paragraph... ANIMALS otherwise humans in Splicer parasite or any of the non-mammal based living armors as well as the warmounts could use metal... which they can't. Where are you reading from?

Page 11, first cloumn under the heading of "Game Mechanics for Handling the Nanobot Plague"

Interesting how the two differ. So then a Non-mammal Pipedal Humanshaped warmount can use metal weapons.

I think you were missing the point that on page 9 it was an instructer explaining what they knew about the plague and on page 11 how it actually works. Also IIMC all the warmount have mammalian DNA so yes the plague would affect them.

Well then there we go some genious Librarian figures it out and all Splicer equipment no longer retains mammalian DNA. Easy to figure out put an animal into a metal cell.

Quester wrote:But who is going to build the cell and place the animal in the cell? That could be suicide and you wouldn't want an outsider (read Technojacker) to be involved in such a sensitive project. Besides look at our own science history, how much of it was assumed to be corect becouse it made sense untill someone tested it? There are a lot of things that the Librareans have going on besides putting animals in cages.

It could still happen.

Zer0 Kay wrote: I am simply saying that in order to make a freaking lead fork you don't have to refine it if you find a large enough chunk and don't have to refine it from the rock. You could make it out of gold which also doesn't require refining if it is panned for. I understand that anything that is found in some other rock must be refined in order to be used. but if it's found in a raw state it doesn't. As far as I know Steel is never found, it is a man made product by adding carbon to the iron.

Outside of the gold dust that miners found that gold you found in rivers wasn't that pure, and gold would make a horrible utensil since it has the strength of cold rubber. I used steel to make a point, it's refined from iron which has to be refined from iron ore. You just don't find chucks of hard metals just sitting there outside of rock. Once they work the metal in any way so it's usable it's state is changed and can be recognized by the nanites and will end in a rather messy ... mess.



Daniel Stoker

So did anyone respond to the question what if the metal components of a weapon are sealed before it enters Splicers?

Quester wrote:From what I've read and understand, if the item arrives in a airtight sealed package then it will not be affected, however once the seal is broken (from fireing, combat damage or just to show it off) all bets are off.

Energy weapons don't break the seal of their metal parts unless their damaged. Now reloading though I'd bet there are metal contacts on the clip and in the clip receiver... maybe, but that wouldn't make it grunt proof so maybe they use close range transmitted energy like they can do now with PDA/Pocket PC's with a recharging matt.

Water

Quester wrote:

slappy wrote:Water

Not as good as metal.

Superconductors! Some of which are ceramic.

But you must be asking about how the clip would be transfering the power. As I said before in REALITY there are matts that are sold that you plug into your wall socket and leave on your desk. You place your PDA or pocket PC on top of it and it recharges. It is close range power transmission. So an e-clip doesn't necessarily have to have metal contacts between it and the weapon it could just be close range power transmittal. For more on power transmission look up Tesla. If you want to see a practical test take a long flourescent bulb and hold it up toward a power line depending on the power going through it governs how large the EM field is if the contacts on the far end of the bulb come in contact with the EMF the bulb will glow. This and other health reasons is why you are not supposed to build a house close to power lines... because you'll get free power.

Quester wrote:I learn something new everyday.

That is a good thing right? I remember when I learned about Tesla, I was astonished, forget Einstein this man was a genius he actually made things.

Alenvire wrote:Thick insulation is like 2 feet in my opinion. Now, if your holding a spear, you don't have 2 feet. Even if you keep your hands moveing up and down the shaft. Your still within two feet. What slappy is saying, is that you move away from the place of contact. Keep moveing and your nanites don't have time to cause a reaction before you move away from that place of contact. The nanites don't say Oh, you touched metal. In 2 minutes I am going to make the closest metal turn into a killing machine. They say, oh, you touched metal. In two minutes I will make THAT metal into a killing machine if you stay here that long. I know the time required is probably less then that, but, you get the point.

Even if your in a halway made all of metal, if you keep moveing then the reaction would try to take place on your old foot steps. So, in the end your not there if you were moveing, and it was not able to cause a reaction from prolonged use.

Remember it's not necessarily the nanites on the metal doing it. It could be the nanites on/in you that are using the metal. As long as your near the same type of metal it's not like they'd know the difference. Besides the insulation in building is usually less than two feet. Depending on the spear which usually only has the point made of metal you could potential have up to 10 feet of distance between you and the metal if it's a pike and your holding the end of the weapon.

Alenvire wrote:Even if you keep your hands moving up and down the shaft.....

Bevis:
heheh hehe hehe, he said shaft.

Precious metals aren't affected by the plague but what pray-tell do you suggest be used to extrude them to the proper specifications for conducting electricity? The plague was pretty deliberately not explained in every detail to keep players from knowing as much about it as the GM did after the world was crafted to his desires. Had it been described in the detail every keeps ***** about it not having, they'd ***** there's too much detail and not enough room to work.

Every setting Palladium has *ever* put out had just as many flaws as Splicers and just as many complaints to match. Hell, after 20+ years Palladium Fantasy still has vague and uncovered rules coming to light. Handle Splicers just like you would every other RPG on the market - take the basic setting, twist it to your particular needs and move on until more info is available. When another book comes out, repeat the process and for **** sake, quit all the damned whining

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Quester wrote:

slappy wrote:Water

Not as good as metal.

Superconductors! Some of which are ceramic.

.

true...yttrium-barium-copper oxide is one of the first 'ceramic' superconductor

in fact ceramics actually require the bonding of metal with oxygen, carbon or silicon.

You know. Metal. The enemy.

Batts

i have Cast IRON pots and forks/knives/spoons i use on camping trips.

Is cast Iron "pure"

Iczer wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Quester wrote:

slappy wrote:Water

Not as good as metal.

Superconductors! Some of which are ceramic.

.

true...yttrium-barium-copper oxide is one of the first 'ceramic' superconductor

in fact ceramics actually require the bonding of metal with oxygen, carbon or silicon.

You know. Metal. The enemy.

Batts

Isn't the yttrium-barium-copper oxide the one the Russian scientist discovered may have anti-gravitic properties?

I recall somewhere that the retro villages were only wiped out if they were found using anything more advanced than the dark ages... as I recall the dark ages used metal. So are you all sure that it just isn't highly processed metals and alloys that the nanites go after? Otherwise retro-villages wouldn't work. "Yeah can you pass me the hammer and nai... never mind give me your gum. Agh is that an ALUMINUM wrapper!!!" (dramatic chords).

p19 top right column:

None of these villages are permitted to have metal (other than precious metals), modern technology or Bio-Technology. Any sign of these elements existing within the village warrants an automatic purge at the hands of the robots.

Technically speaking, the nanites don't infect all the metal on the planet. They infect all the humans or animals on the planet. That's why characters arriving from Rifts in EBA aren't affected until the break the seal on their armor and breathe in the air.

When an infected human (any Splicers native) touches metal of a certain tech-grade or higher, I assume the nanites are programmed to respond to some specific levels of magnetic, electrical or thermal conductivity or specific levels of molecular cohesion, or electro-atomic bonding or whatever and sense the contact when the affected human touches an appropriate item.

In the case of the Retro-Villages, the humans are still infected, but maybe the nanites are specifically controlled not to activate by Gaia, or maybe the metals there are not sufficiently conductive to trigger a response.

Kelorin wrote:Technically speaking, the nanites don't infect all the metal on the planet. They infect all the humans or animals on the planet. That's why characters arriving from Rifts in EBA aren't affected until the break the seal on their armor and breathe in the air.

When an infected human (any Splicers native) touches metal of a certain tech-grade or higher, I assume the nanites are programmed to respond to some specific levels of magnetic, electrical or thermal conductivity or specific levels of molecular cohesion, or electro-atomic bonding or whatever and sense the contact when the affected human touches an appropriate item.

In the case of the Retro-Villages, the humans are still infected, but maybe the nanites are specifically controlled not to activate by Gaia, or maybe the metals there are not sufficiently conductive to trigger a response.

Gold is the most conductive even when unrefined so conductivity really wouldn't matter.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Kelorin wrote:Technically speaking, the nanites don't infect all the metal on the planet. They infect all the humans or animals on the planet. That's why characters arriving from Rifts in EBA aren't affected until the break the seal on their armor and breathe in the air.

When an infected human (any Splicers native) touches metal of a certain tech-grade or higher, I assume the nanites are programmed to respond to some specific levels of magnetic, electrical or thermal conductivity or specific levels of molecular cohesion, or electro-atomic bonding or whatever and sense the contact when the affected human touches an appropriate item.

In the case of the Retro-Villages, the humans are still infected, but maybe the nanites are specifically controlled not to activate by Gaia, or maybe the metals there are not sufficiently conductive to trigger a response.

Gold is the most conductive even when unrefined so conductivity really wouldn't matter.

I was just using conductivity as an example. It could be atomic weight, or conductivity or molecular structure or something else we haven't thought of. The the nano-bots appear to only react to specific triggers. Refined metals or high-tech items trigger a response. Gold, and other materials apparently don't. Whatever the reason, the reaction is a programmed response from the nanites.

Kelorin wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Kelorin wrote:Technically speaking, the nanites don't infect all the metal on the planet. They infect all the humans or animals on the planet. That's why characters arriving from Rifts in EBA aren't affected until the break the seal on their armor and breathe in the air.

When an infected human (any Splicers native) touches metal of a certain tech-grade or higher, I assume the nanites are programmed to respond to some specific levels of magnetic, electrical or thermal conductivity or specific levels of molecular cohesion, or electro-atomic bonding or whatever and sense the contact when the affected human touches an appropriate item.

In the case of the Retro-Villages, the humans are still infected, but maybe the nanites are specifically controlled not to activate by Gaia, or maybe the metals there are not sufficiently conductive to trigger a response.

Gold is the most conductive even when unrefined so conductivity really wouldn't matter.

I was just using conductivity as an example. It could be atomic weight, or conductivity or molecular structure or something else we haven't thought of. The the nano-bots appear to only react to specific triggers. Refined metals or high-tech items trigger a response. Gold, and other materials apparently don't. Whatever the reason, the reaction is a programmed response from the nanites.

So would pig or wroght (sp) iron be too "high" tech? I beleive that refined gold would cause the reaction.

The nanites if in fact they do react to ALL metal probably just have a metal detector.

Wrought iron probably would get a response from the plague since it's considered an industrial metal. Gold, silver andthe rest of the "precious" metals are explicitly immune to the plague if you go with Canon.

Precious metals, refined or not, do not provoke a plague reaction when they come into contact with mammals.

The purpose of the plague is to deny metal as a resource to humans in the war against N.E.X.U.S. - I imagine the precious metals are ignored from the nanites programming because there is little way in which the precious metals could further the war effort.

As to a scientific explanation of how the nanites know not to infect precious metal?

Science fiction, relax and have fun.

Why not just have a Guy with Mechanolink come over from HU and Reprogram the nanites to seek out and reprogram other nanites to do the same?
Thus ending the plague?

Because the nanites simply arent that functional. If they were, you wouldnt need a telemech, the technojackers would have done it already.