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What should the S.D.C. damage be with a weapon like that?

6d6

I own one and I would say about 6 or maybe 7D6 sdc as well.

REV wrote:I own one and I would say about 6 or maybe 7D6 sdc as well.

Really? How well does it preform? How much did it cost you?

I'd say max 5d6 normal 6d6 with AP/dum-dums...it is a hand gun, not an assault rifle...

Rimmerdal wrote:I'd say max 5d6 normal 6d6 with AP/dum-dums...it is a hand gun, not an assault rifle...

so? if you look it has more power than most assult rifles.

I'm counting pentatration value..but that does seem high..hit the wrong number...should be 4d6 with 5 for specialty rounds...my bad!

My understanding is it performs comperably with a 12 guage slug.

Oh, and I'm moving this topic to . . . uh . . . Ninjas and Superspies because this is a real SDC weapon rather than a rifts MDC weapon.

Can it shoot through schools?

I've got no problem with you moving it here, thought I posted in Rifts because I have a character that uses SDC revolvers for his sharpshooting skills.

But yeah, I've always had an admiration for for revolvers, and this was a serious highlight when I found it. As for damage, i was thinking 6D6 SDC myself. Though owning this in NSS sure would a very big highlight.

shortstop4313 wrote:I'd say 8d6 to be honest, at least 7d6...

This is a absurdly powerful round.

On a human target there would be a serious risk of over-penetration and less damage. Depending, of course, on bullet design and composition. Hunting rounds are designed to penetrate far deeper and fragment less than combat/defense rounds.

Gheralt HellWalker wrote:I am very curious how much this weapon costs? It would be very fun to take one to the shooting range and watch the Jaws drop

I saw one that wanted over $1300 for it, though i've seen another that was near $1500. I don't know exactly how much, though yes, it would be enjoyable to own one.

For N&S, the best listed revolver is the .44 Magnum Super IV (page 155) @ 5D6. Obviosly the .50 S&W round is going to do more (much more) damage than that. Judging by the comparable .50 BMG round*, I'd have to say the .50 S&W would do 7D6 damage (though the revolver would probably be -2 to Strike, as per the .44 Mag Super IV note.

For a more updated game, like HU2, we've got a lot of weapons to look at, and damage provided for rounds like the .50 AE (6D6) and the .44 Magnum (also 6D6). Based on this, I'd have to say we're looking at close to 7D6, or more likely, the .50 BMG's 1D4x10 damage.


*The .50 BMG M33 Ball has a muzzle velocity of 2910 fps, which is a heck of a lot closer to the 2600 fps of the .50 S&W than the 1900 fps of the .454 Casull.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Can it shoot through schools?

Nope, it's a fifty cal. not an 88 magnum.

Although you could still take it to the opera for target practice...

Res Sin Kai wrote:

REV wrote:I own one and I would say about 6 or maybe 7D6 sdc as well.

Really? How well does it preform? How much did it cost you?

I got mine(8 3/8 ) at discount at just a tad over $900 at my Gun Store. I think the suggested retail is around a $1000.
It is designed for accuracy so there are NO penalities to hit what so ever.

It comes in a variety of sizes with a special collectors varaient as well.
http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/st ... ctiveTab=1

Here is a site with a little info on the gun itself. Note the 440 Grain cartridge muzzle energy.

http://www.gunblast.com/SW_500.htm

Besides, Palladium is the game that gives more damage for AP round than normal rounds

Given the high values of armour in most Palladium games, this is a necessity if AP is going to be effective. If you use PV, then AP rounds are perfectly effective. If not, then extra dice of damage are needed, otherwise there would be no point to called them "armour Piercing".

Sentinel wrote:

Besides, Palladium is the game that gives more damage for AP round than normal rounds

Given the high values of armour in most Palladium games, this is a necessity if AP is going to be effective. If you use PV, then AP rounds are perfectly effective. If not, then extra dice of damage are needed, otherwise there would be no point to called them "armour Piercing".

Armor Piercing rounds add +2 to PV and increase the damage of the round by one damage rank (and for some reason are +1 to strike).

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Sentinel wrote:

Besides, Palladium is the game that gives more damage for AP round than normal rounds

Given the high values of armour in most Palladium games, this is a necessity if AP is going to be effective. If you use PV, then AP rounds are perfectly effective. If not, then extra dice of damage are needed, otherwise there would be no point to called them "armour Piercing".

Armor Piercing rounds add +2 to PV and increase the damage of the round by one damage rank (and for some reason are +1 to strike).

I didn't see any sense in the +1 to strike, admittedly.

Res Sin Kai wrote:

Gheralt HellWalker wrote:I am very curious how much this weapon costs? It would be very fun to take one to the shooting range and watch the Jaws drop

I saw one that wanted over $1300 for it, though i've seen another that was near $1500. I don't know exactly how much, though yes, it would be enjoyable to own one.

1500 for the hunting model comes with strap (shoulder) counter weight cleaning kit and i got 2 speed loaders.

shortstop4313 wrote:

Sentinel wrote:

Besides, Palladium is the game that gives more damage for AP round than normal rounds

Given the high values of armour in most Palladium games, this is a necessity if AP is going to be effective. If you use PV, then AP rounds are perfectly effective. If not, then extra dice of damage are needed, otherwise there would be no point to called them "armour Piercing".

See, I completely disagree. Just adding damage is completely the wrong mechanic to use, because if anything, making a round Armor piercing severely limits the damage of a round, as much as 20%+ in some cases simply because the round can not expand and deform in the wound channel.

So simply, it would do less damage, not more damage. It'd be like making a mechanic where if you make a car heavier with armor, somehow the car gets faster, it's unrealistic and counter-intuitive.

If you're playing a standard game, I'd just have it lower the AR of the armor. If you're playing PV game, it's pretty much solved without upping the damage. If you're playing an even more realistic game, you just check the chart. Oh, you are wearing IVB armor? The AP .44 mag AP round didn't do anything against it.

So, what do you do for MD rounds with AP against MD EBA which doesn't have A.R.?

Hm - I've got to say I'd give this more than 7D6. The ads say it'll take down ANY game on the planet. That includes elephants my friends, and I think that keeping it below the realm of say, a .45-70 is kinda crazy. Furthermore, they now make a snubnose version because hunting guides wanted it to protect against POLAR BEARS.

If you want to use that bad boy against a polar bear, it'd better do more than 7D6 damage, or you're dust.

But that's just my two cents.

Subbie

Which means, the SDC, HP and Damage system is screwed up. (Oh, and AR too, I really think there needs to be a fix on AR)

One of the quick fixes I use is that a potentially lethal attack, like say a gunshot, automatically bypasses SDC and goes straight to Hit Points.

I'm working on a more detailed fix (which will probably see the elimination of SDC alltogether and institute some sot of wounding system) but it's not fine tuned yet.

Jefffar wrote:One of the quick fixes I use is that a potentially lethal attack, like say a gunshot, automatically bypasses SDC and goes straight to Hit Points.

I can see problems with that. Our game, the GM uses things like full auto and grenades and the like all the time, surprise attacks, opening volleys, forced fights, etc.

With it SDC, it's not too bad and it's survivable. But make all that stuff HP damage -- gotta ask, how could the same gaming and GMing tactics still be used, without instant lethality before the characters have a chance?

Something seen more than a few times - the characters are not expecting a fight, and from a hidden position, an NPC lets loose with emptying the clip. It's the opening for a GM-intended unavoidable and undetectable fight. SDC damage, we go "Ow" appreciatively. Nothing a big deal, since it's not meant to be lethal, it's meant to be a "Hey, these guys mean business!" type of thing. Keep the same tactic but turn all that to HP damage - well, how do the players even have a hope to live???

Like I said, Quick Fix, kinda like duct tape. Functional and ugly.

The one I'm workign on promises to be more realistic but not necissarily more leathal - at least if you wear some body armour.

That's what I've done in BtS1-2 and other highly realistic games.

I can't really consider BtS a highly realistic game.
Recon would be highly realistic.
Most of the Palladium games are cinematic and four-colour: they have psionics, magic, super-powers, legendary mystic martial arts powers, immortals, monsters, dimensional travel, aliens, self-aware machines, etc.

...

MWC has rules for internal injury which means damage multiplers

a 5d6 shot to a very vital area inflicts x 4 damage ... those 18 points becomes 76 which is enough to drop a deer.

shortstop4313 wrote:

Sentinel wrote:

That's what I've done in BtS1-2 and other highly realistic games.

I can't really consider BtS a highly realistic game.
Recon would be highly realistic.
Most of the Palladium games are cinematic and four-colour: they have psionics, magic, super-powers, legendary mystic martial arts powers, immortals, monsters, dimensional travel, aliens, self-aware machines, etc.

In your opinion. My opinion is much different. I don't have BTS1-2 in the same 4 colour world you have it in. Just with the lower SDC totals and bonuses in BTS1, it really set the tone far away from the 4 colour and Action Movie style damage system.

But we've disagreed on this in the past and we will in the future.

Says you.

Seriously, even after those changes you make, you still have demons, psychics, magic, and everything else that isn't real. This makes it not realistic to me. That would be l;ike saying by cutting the powers of Heroes Unlimited in half, I make it more realistic. To do that, I would have to eliminate all the powers, magic, psionics, and other stuff.

Gomen_Nagai wrote:...

MWC has rules for internal injury which means damage multiplers

a 5d6 shot to a very vital area inflicts x 4 damage ... those 18 points becomes 76 which is enough to drop a deer.

The Compendium of Contemporary Weapons does have hit location damage modifiers, but the random hit location table and hit points by body location tables are fairly unlrealistic.

BTS a realistic game?

No.

BTS a gritty game?

Yes

shortstop4313 wrote:

Sentinel wrote:

shortstop4313 wrote:

Sentinel wrote:

That's what I've done in BtS1-2 and other highly realistic games.

I can't really consider BtS a highly realistic game.
Recon would be highly realistic.
Most of the Palladium games are cinematic and four-colour: they have psionics, magic, super-powers, legendary mystic martial arts powers, immortals, monsters, dimensional travel, aliens, self-aware machines, etc.

In your opinion. My opinion is much different. I don't have BTS1-2 in the same 4 colour world you have it in. Just with the lower SDC totals and bonuses in BTS1, it really set the tone far away from the 4 colour and Action Movie style damage system.

But we've disagreed on this in the past and we will in the future.

Says you.

Seriously, even after those changes you make, you still have demons, psychics, magic, and everything else that isn't real. This makes it not realistic to me. That would be l;ike saying by cutting the powers of Heroes Unlimited in half, I make it more realistic. To do that, I would have to eliminate all the powers, magic, psionics, and other stuff.

Again, you're not getting it. You're confusing unrealistic with the clear distinctions between Low Fantasy and High Fantasy. Everything is not black and white: Just because something is unrealistic doesn't mean it's four colour, cinematic action!

I'll list things in order from High Fantasy to Low fantasy using some popular media:

Martial Arts:
1) House of Flying Daggers 2) Enter the Dragon 1) (the Brawl in) They Live

Crime/Noir:
1) Hard Boiled 2) The Professional 3) Heat

Horror/Supernatural:
1) Nightmare on Elm Street 2) Fallen 3) Son of Sam

Action:
1) Commando 2) Die Hard 3) Ronin

Comics:
1) JLA 2) Punisher 3) Hellblazer

Anime:
1) Dragon Ball Z 2) Naruto 3) Samurai Champoo

All of the above would require different interpretations on rulings and such on how combat rules and what's allowed and so on. In some games, allowing someone to get shot and walk away relatively okay is fine. In other games, getting shot means you are dying, it all depends.

And if you don't see the difference here, I don't know what to say.

No, I get what you're saying.
I tried to avoid the use of the word "unrealistic" in favor of the phrase "not realistic" instead. I agree for the most part with the way you classified the films. I simply add the catagory 'realistic' after low fantasy. To me, any use of 'fantasy' even low fantasy is not realistic. Realistic would be totally devoid of absolutely any fantasy elements, while low fantasy would, as you said, not be quite as four colour.
I see most dramas, crime dramas, etc as realistic (Cops, Scarface, Godfather, Serpico). Most action films and Hong Kong cinema as low end fantastic or heroic fiction at the least (Bear in mind that while films such as those by Segal and Van Damme are 'realistic' in that sense, they are not Plausible. There is nothing supernatural about the things they do in most of their films, simply stupid writer fiat and bad plot devices Most of Arnies' movies from the Eighties fall into this catagory as well).
To me, the presense of any sort of fantasy trapping, whether it's telepathy or flying or being bullet proof or interviewing a vampire, is not realistic.

ash_wednesday wrote:

shortstop4313 wrote:

Tyciol wrote:I think in the end we need to look at how this compares to shotguns, if this is doing more than one of them in damage but not in real life there's a problem. 5D6+1 perhaps?

Slugs I've always thought do little damage.

Is there really a such thing as soild slugs? I haven't seen them in any movie or in real life..They always use buckshot.....

Yes, there are solid slugs for shotguns. You may not have seen them, but some of us have.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

ash_wednesday wrote:

shortstop4313 wrote:

Tyciol wrote:I think in the end we need to look at how this compares to shotguns, if this is doing more than one of them in damage but not in real life there's a problem. 5D6+1 perhaps?

Slugs I've always thought do little damage.

Is there really a such thing as soild slugs? I haven't seen them in any movie or in real life..They always use buckshot.....

Yes, there are solid slugs for shotguns. You may not have seen them, but some of us have.

My husband has some slugs. He took me down to a rural range one day and had me fire both the slug and standard shot, for comparison/familiarity. It's amazing what that slug did to the tree holding the target.

shortstop4313 wrote:

Natalya wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

ash_wednesday wrote:

shortstop4313 wrote:

Tyciol wrote:I think in the end we need to look at how this compares to shotguns, if this is doing more than one of them in damage but not in real life there's a problem. 5D6+1 perhaps?

Slugs I've always thought do little damage.

Is there really a such thing as soild slugs? I haven't seen them in any movie or in real life..They always use buckshot.....

Yes, there are solid slugs for shotguns. You may not have seen them, but some of us have.

My husband has some slugs. He took me down to a rural range one day and had me fire both the slug and standard shot, for comparison/familiarity. It's amazing what that slug did to the tree holding the target.

Err, what I meant was 'slugs do too little damage' in Palladium. 5d6 isn't enough for the retarded amount of damage it does to a body.

I have them at 1d4x10 in my games.

Well, instead of ramping up damage (actually needed in some cases for firearms), you could use Jefffar's system and have bullets do damage to hit points.

ash_wednesday wrote:

shortstop4313 wrote:

Tyciol wrote:I think in the end we need to look at how this compares to shotguns, if this is doing more than one of them in damage but not in real life there's a problem. 5D6+1 perhaps?

Slugs I've always thought do little damage.

Is there really a such thing as soild slugs? I haven't seen them in any movie or in real life..They always use buckshot.....

AFAIK, in Indiana, you *NEED* to use slugs to hunt deer with a shotgun here.

I've got several boxes of them in my ammunition box. I load 'em in my shotgun for home defense, alternately loaded as follows:

Birdshot
Buckshot
Slug
Birdshot
Buckshot
Slug
Birdshot
Buckshot

It's a mean combo, and I feel bad for anyone who comes in my house with the intent to do violence with me home. I feel worse for 'em if my wife is the only one home. She uses a .45 and she's mean as hell with it.

Subjugator wrote:

ash_wednesday wrote:

shortstop4313 wrote:

Tyciol wrote:I think in the end we need to look at how this compares to shotguns, if this is doing more than one of them in damage but not in real life there's a problem. 5D6+1 perhaps?

Slugs I've always thought do little damage.

Is there really a such thing as soild slugs? I haven't seen them in any movie or in real life..They always use buckshot.....

AFAIK, in Indiana, you *NEED* to use slugs to hunt deer with a shotgun here.

I've got several boxes of them in my ammunition box. I load 'em in my shotgun for home defense, alternately loaded as follows:

Birdshot
Buckshot
Slug
Birdshot
Buckshot
Slug
Birdshot
Buckshot

It's a mean combo, and I feel bad for anyone who comes in my house with the intent to do violence with me home. I feel worse for 'em if my wife is the only one home. She uses a .45 and she's mean as hell with it.

Ah, but what about drive-bys?

shortstop4313 wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
Well, instead of ramping up damage (actually needed in some cases for firearms), you could use Jefffar's system and have bullets do damage to hit points.

Eh, it's just a side effect of game/mod design... I try to find scales of number and place things in the right place.

In my game, 12g Slugs do 1d4x10

I'm still working on revamping firearm damage myself, don't know if I'd go that high for slugs personally.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:Ah, but what about drive-bys?

OK - you've lost me here. I don't live in a bad neighborhood, but I've got an unusual situation in my home with my kids being an extreme kidnap risk and a (particular) low-life coming to attack my family.

The prosecutor involved advised me to get a gun and carry it.

I figure that's a strong enough warning for me.

Subjugator wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:Ah, but what about drive-bys?

OK - you've lost me here. I don't live in a bad neighborhood, but I've got an unusual situation in my home with my kids being an extreme kidnap risk and a (particular) low-life coming to attack my family.

The prosecutor involved advised me to get a gun and carry it.

I figure that's a strong enough warning for me.

He only advised you to get a gun? I would have thought he'd offer more useful advice, like upgrading your home security system, varying your daily routine, and escorting your children to & from school and other activities.

Or moving

Jefffar wrote:Or moving

I thought about moving as an option of good advice, but decided against it based on the information provided.

Damn...that is a sexy gun.

I loved me a .454 Casull first time I saw one in Alien Nation I think...and that one is even cooler...oh..I'd just rule it at 1d4X10.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Subjugator wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:Ah, but what about drive-bys?

OK - you've lost me here. I don't live in a bad neighborhood, but I've got an unusual situation in my home with my kids being an extreme kidnap risk and a (particular) low-life coming to attack my family.

The prosecutor involved advised me to get a gun and carry it.

I figure that's a strong enough warning for me.

He only advised you to get a gun? I would have thought he'd offer more useful advice, like upgrading your home security system, varying your daily routine, and escorting your children to & from school and other activities.

In fairness, we only know what was on the board. Maybe the prosecutor did advise all that too. Just this post only focused on one thing.

And moving ain't all it's cracked up to be. Just from what was hinted, it easily could be that nowhere would be secure, and at least the local police know to keep an eye out on them.

Natalya wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Subjugator wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:Ah, but what about drive-bys?

OK - you've lost me here. I don't live in a bad neighborhood, but I've got an unusual situation in my home with my kids being an extreme kidnap risk and a (particular) low-life coming to attack my family.

The prosecutor involved advised me to get a gun and carry it.

I figure that's a strong enough warning for me.

He only advised you to get a gun? I would have thought he'd offer more useful advice, like upgrading your home security system, varying your daily routine, and escorting your children to & from school and other activities.

In fairness, we only know what was on the board. Maybe the prosecutor did advise all that too. Just this post only focused on one thing.

And moving ain't all it's cracked up to be. Just from what was hinted, it easily could be that nowhere would be secure, and at least the local police know to keep an eye out on them.

Security system is being taken care of - the variance and moving wouldnt' do much - it's a family member that we fear right now. We're fostering my three great-nieces because of an insanely jacked up situation in their home. The father of my niece is a psycho who's already been convicted of several violent felonies and *tadaa* KIDNAPPING.

So I keep a .45 with me at all times. I've got the gauge in case he comes to my house, and I'm getting my wife a .357 revolver for those times when I'm out with the .45.

As far as the rest - the kids are always with me or an adult I trust implicitly.

Always.

My sick niece (their mother) mysteriously got a job in my same building where I work. Apparently the restraining order doesn't stop that. That's the real reason I started to carry full time - if she tries something (like following me again), I want to be ready in case she goes truly whacko.

Natalya wrote:

Jefffar wrote:One of the quick fixes I use is that a potentially lethal attack, like say a gunshot, automatically bypasses SDC and goes straight to Hit Points.

I can see problems with that. Our game, the GM uses things like full auto and grenades and the like all the time, surprise attacks, opening volleys, forced fights, etc.

With it SDC, it's not too bad and it's survivable. But make all that stuff HP damage -- gotta ask, how could the same gaming and GMing tactics still be used, without instant lethality before the characters have a chance?

Something seen more than a few times - the characters are not expecting a fight, and from a hidden position, an NPC lets loose with emptying the clip. It's the opening for a GM-intended unavoidable and undetectable fight. SDC damage, we go "Ow" appreciatively. Nothing a big deal, since it's not meant to be lethal, it's meant to be a "Hey, these guys mean business!" type of thing. Keep the same tactic but turn all that to HP damage - well, how do the players even have a hope to live???

It depends on what level of lethality you're looking to play in the game.

Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum
This is a double action revolver that was designed with the express intent of being "the most powerful handgun in the world."
Country: United States.
Cartridge: .500 S&W.
Feed: Seven (5) round cylinder.
Weight: 4.5 pounds (2.04 kilograms).
Overall Length: 15 inches (38.1 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 8.375 inches (21.27 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: 1675 fps (510.67 m/s).
Approx. Effective Range: ?? feet ( ?? meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Revolver).
Damage: 7D6.
Penalties: -1 to Strike due to heavy recoil.
Cost: $987.

Designer's Notes:

• All of the info is from here.
• The damage is a guess.