Can all HAs talk? Will MDC weapons work as SDC weapons? etc.

[Poocho]

I'm just full of questions.

One major drawback of the Parasitic Host Armor and some of the others is their lack of a mouth. Does this mean they can't talk? I know they can use their Bio-Comms to talk between others with a Bio-Comm, but do they still have an aparatus to project their voice to normal humans?

Also, part of the descriptions for the various handheld bio-weapons leave me a bit confused. The book says that SDC weapons can be converted to MDC weapons so they can inflict Mega Damage; but when they're wielded by a person with regular PS, do they still inflict normal SDC damage. It wouldn't make sense to say that they still do MD, since that would mean you'd swing at a normal human with your sword and the 3 MD points (300 SDC) you inflict would pretty much automatically leave them in pieces on the floor. It also wouldn't make sense to say that they can only be used in MD encounters, since that would mean that the same sword that lopped the head off that NEXUS robot simply bounces off the skin of that guy in the bar.

As far as it seems fair to me, I think it would make sense to say that a weapon that does 3d6 MD should do 3d6 SDC in the appropriate circumstances.

And there was one other thing. Ah, I'll remember it later.

So, comment/answer away!
--Poocho

[demos606]

I would say a MD converted weapon does MD all the time. Yes, this makes even a grazing hit fatal against an unarmored human but the only place you should find those is in "safe havens" or technojackers for the briefest of instants before they summon nanite armor. Most Houses will have rules against carrying any weapons within House confines unless yer a Scarecrow (yeah, disarm SN PS), Biotic (cant exactly disarm these guys) or the House Guard.

As for parasitic HA, you can always have a mouth grown if you feel that much need to communicate with folks that dont have Bio-Comms. Simple fact is, anyone you're expected to have direct contact with in HA is gonna have Bio-Comms or be a robot.

[The Baron of chaos]

perosnally in my peersonal lis tof additional eugenic fea ture I allowed an
Additional Mouth at 5 Bio-E cost, after all if you can have additional eyes you can have additional mouth(6 fire breathing mouth are cool!!)

[demos606]

The HA would violate the no weapons rule all by itself. Only people that should be running around in HA on House Grounds are Warlord (maybe) and the House Guard. Border patrols shouldn't be on House holdings or they dont make for much of a warning system.

[Poocho]

On talking in a HA, I can think of a few instances when you'd need to talk to someone not in their own HA. One would be communicating with someone in a Retro Village (for information, warnings, etc.), or to a fellow party member without Bio-comms (Technojackers, Scarecrows, etc.), or if you're communicating with an avatar robot for one of the Machine's personalities (assuming of course, that avatar would rather talk at the moment rather than start shooting).

And I know you'd be able to talk with the HA's mouth. After all, I remember the description for the Forked Tongue says that it gives a penalty to the Ventriloquism skill. And doesn't the description for basic HA stats say that a person in HA can project their voice to a volume of up to 80 db? It doesn't say that you can't talk if your HA doesn't have a mouth, although I'll admit this could've been simply overlooked.

Regarding MD weapons, it doesn't make any logical sense to say that a MD melee weapon (ranged weapons I'd see as MD all the time) would still do MD in the hands of a person with regular PS. A razor-edged MD weapon won't be any sharper than a razor-edged SDC weapon. It would really only grant more damage in the hands of a person with Splicer PS, who could swing it harder. As far as I can see the main difference between a MD melee weapon and a SDC one (besides additional features such as acid, a blood pool, rapid vibration, etc.) is that a MD weapon is grown tough enough to not shatter on impact.

[Edit] As for walking around the House Grounds in your HA, I figured that was a given. After all, the book does say that a Dreadguard is rarely seen out of his HA. The Dreadguard desription says that they are feared when seen by other humans, and this would hardly apply if they simply walked through the area as normal humans. In fact, it would be difficult to even know they were Dreadguard and not Archangels or Outriders.

It makes sense to me for Dreadguards to be walking all over the place in their HA, weapons all on display, completely proud of their HA and position. I can easily see all of the Dreadguard composing the Senate to be sitting in their rows (or around a round table?) all in their HA. With the constant threat of the Machine, it would hardly be prudent to feel safe. If all of a sudden you were faced with a Sewer Crawler (I think that's it--the centipede robots) and all you had was some light armor, not only would you quickly be cut to pieces, but all the humans nearby would be too. No, each warrior should always be ready to battle the constant possibility of a robot extermination squad. By the time you'd get to your HA and get it on, dozens/hundreds of lives could've already been lost.

Also, Dreadguards are expected to uphold their own Code of Honor. They are trusted to operate the HA and not to simply fire on each other as they meet one another in the hallways.

So, my rambling aside, I don't see any logical reason to not expect all of the warriors in this warrior society to almost always have their MD weapons at hand. [/edit]

I know what you're gonna say: "If this is so important to you, just make it a house rule." Obviously I could do that. If I wanted, I could make a House Rule saying that the sky is made of jello and all Gorehounds are proficient at singing opera and dancing. But I'd rather not have to make a house rule if it's already an official rule . . . or if it is agreed that it should be.

Just my thoughts,
Poocho

[Poocho]

Oh, and I think I just remembered what else I wanted to ask.

Do all your skills, abilities, etc. that your human character has apply when he's in his HA? If I have the boxing skill, which says that if you punch someone with a Nat 20 he'll automatically be knocked out, does that still apply when I punch another Dreadguard when I'm in my HA? If having Hand-to-Hand: Martial Arts gives me a special Karate Kick attack, can I still do this while in my HA?

Also, if part of the HA is destoyed (arm, leg, hand, etc.), is the human part underneath automatically destroyed? You might think so, unless the arm only had 8 MDC left and was damaged with only 8 MD; but the book says that if the head is destoyed, the pilot's head is now open to be attacked. So, is the body part still alive when the HA part is destroyed until that human part itself is attacked, or does it automatically get blown off. How 'bout if a Slicer robot slices through the arm?

Keeping your eyes rolling,
Poocho

[demos606]

Few things about your last 2 posts - the *largest* House in the book is 250000 people with roughly 30000 Dreadguard. In a population of 250k, I dont think there's gonna be much trouble at all knowing who the Dreadguard are without their armor. As for the note under Living Armor that Dreadguard are rarely seen without their HA, which would you rather wear to a potential battle? There's just no need for any of the armor at home because even the near untouchable Scarecrows are leashed completely for fear of retribution on their Librarian and a slow lingering death. There are also the factors of having to rest the armor, supply it with nutrients while wearing it (potentially bad for Parasitic, Vampiric and several enhancements) and having to rest the human inside. There is a definate physical and mental strain placed on a HA pilot that will eventually overwhelm them if they never remove the armor.

As for MD weapons not being MD in the hands of a "normal" human, lets look at the rest of the Rifts multiverse that Splicers is but a single planet of. Anywhere else, MD weapons are *always* MD unless specificly stated otherwise. Splicers makes absolutely NO mention of converting MD to SD when wielded outside HA (otherwise 'Angels and Packmasters are really screwed for close order weapons because they *never* get HA to augment them to Splicer/robotic strength. Also, the ONLY biotech strength enhancement offered for Armors of any kind is adrenaline surge.

As for your sudden crawler attacks, thats what the house guard, biotics, scarecrows, sentry posts etc are for. If a robot gets into the House sanctum uncontested, there are bigger problems than whether or not you are wearing host armor at the time. Humans shouldn't ever feel safe as long as the NEXUS exists, thats why any warlord that wants to stay warlord has House Guard, sentry posts, border patrols, automatic defensive weapon placements and whatever else they feel is necessary to protect the House and provide warning of an attack. Given that all but 1 House is underground, it is a tacticly simple situation for a small number of defenders to destroy or delay a much larger number of attackers without direct communication from NEXUS.

HA combat gets all the skill bonuses you would get outside the armor, including the special attacks if any granted by said skills. The only exception tp this would be an Outrider strapped into the saddle of their War Mount. Armor locations destroyed with exactly the right amount of damage to destroy leave the human underneath, anything destroyed with extra damage takes the human pieces with it (this means death for head/torso barring a Lazarus gland). Of course destroyed armor with squishy materials exposed makes for a wonderful called shot in the next melee so......


Something to keep in mind when dealing with retro villages and those that live there - any evidence, any evidence whatsoever of any tech in or near the village is death for the entire village and ~20 miles around it. Not exactly a great recruiting strategy to place everyone your would be recruit knows and cares about in mortal danger.

[demos606]

That depends entirely upon your PS and the attack in question. Splicer PS doesn't guarantee MD attacks. If the attack specifies MD/SD regardless of PS, then its MD/SD regardless of PS.

[Poocho]

As for MD weapons not being MD in the hands of a "normal" human, lets look at the rest of the Rifts multiverse that Splicers is but a single planet of. Anywhere else, MD weapons are *always* MD unless specificly stated otherwise. Splicers makes absolutely NO mention of converting MD to SD when wielded outside HA.

Okay, I'll accept your logic on those points. However, on the one above, while I'll accept that "that's the way it is," it seems to be flawed. Like I said above, an MD blade isn't any sharper than a SDC blade. I wouldn't see why it automatically does MD.

[Zer0 Kay]

They are organic powered armor. They do not require a mouth in order to project their voice just as a power armor does not require a mouth piece to project thier voice. Now for flavor you could always say that what ever the character says is essentially mimicked with the mouth so depending on the mouth the character may end up with a strange accent. In the case of those without a mouth the voice seems to be coming from the armor, maybe in the case of the parasite it seems to eminate from the entire body as the membrane vibrates to produce sound. The vegi armor's "voice" may be accompanied by the rustling of leaves or seem like a chitinous rasping. If your going to start arguing silly stuff like that then answer this... Where is the LIVING host armors heart at? What about it's brain?

[Poocho]

Okay, I like that answer. It was kind of what I was thinking.

As for the living armor's heart, I don't know about that, but it doesn't have a brain--the book says that the pilot supplies the brain.

I'm pretty sure you were the only one who replied . . . *checks* . . . yep.

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay, I like that answer. It was kind of what I was thinking.

As for the living armor's heart, I don't know about that, but it doesn't have a brain--the book says that the pilot supplies the brain.

I'm pretty sure you were the only one who replied . . . *checks* . . . yep.

If it lives it HAS to have a brain, nucleus or something to run it's life functions. Just like your heart can't beat without a brain.

[Zer0 Kay]

As a biologist (well a biology student), i feel qualified to answere the brain problem.

I would expect that the HA would have a complete nervous system with a highly advanced notochord. A notochord is much like a spinal column, except that it has the basics for a brain in there. Kind of like the brainstem in humans. Thus, a HA can indeed keep all it's autonomic systems(pulse, water ballance, waste disposal, ect) working, and when it is put on, the notochord would act as the brainstem of the wearer and the wearer supplies the rest of the brain, so to speak.

ah i love biotec

BTW, the mouth mimiking the movements of the wearer is genius! i hadn't considered that. I also like the idea of a suit wide vibratory membrane for speech. I'm not sure it would be suit wide, but definetly somewhere on the head. Very cool!

oh, i think the suits wouldn't need a heart as the arteries themselves could be modified to do the pumping.

and as for the MDC melee weapons, i was under the impression that they were indead sharper than SDC. i had figured that they had a monomolecular edge, or something the like. maybe a truly frictionless edge. that'd go right through things like butter!

a bio cat

Thanks I guess. So are there actually creatures that have this notochord?
The other reason it could do MDC damage is because of the HA. The bonus MD added to punch is just there because a sharp MDC item still makes it easier to punch through MD armor.

Lets lower the ratio for an example a child's strength compared to an adult warrior's, using a stilleto. The weapon is dangerous in the hands of either but a child isn't going to be able to shove that stilleto through chainmail where as the warrior bare handed will be able to do some damage punching the person in chain but with the stilleto he'll stab right through the chain breaking links as he goes. So now you magnify that like 10 times and that is the scale for man vs. HA using the same weapon As long as the weapon is MDC material because if it's not it would just shatter when the HA tries to use it against another MDC structure.

[demos606]

You still have Archangels and Packmasters using the same MDC melee weapons as the folks wearing HA to account for. Granted, in the hands of a child there may not be suffecient strength for effective use of the weapon but in the hands of even the most feeble combat capable adult, MD weapons do MD unless otherwise noted.

[Zer0 Kay]

You still have Archangels and Packmasters using the same MDC melee weapons as the folks wearing HA to account for. Granted, in the hands of a child there may not be suffecient strength for effective use of the weapon but in the hands of even the most feeble combat capable adult, MD weapons do MD unless otherwise noted.

Not true. If you pick up a piece of MDC material say a pipe. That pipe even though it is made of MDC does not make it and MD weapon. Now this bone should be the same way it is MD material, Carmen probably didn't expect anyone to be trying to use it without the suits. Don't the AA and PM still wear living armor? Are the AA's or the PM's able to get that upgrade? If not than there you go if so it's an inconsistancy. A bone from a dragon even though it is MD and even magic in nature will not do MD when in the hands of a human... unless it is made into a Dragon Slayer weapon.

[demos606]

Didn't expect anyone to use the MD weapons without Host Armor? Then why the heck would he even write OCC that don't get HA? Yes, both get living armor but LA gives *no* strength boost for them to have HA strength. For that matter, HA doesnt need the handheld melee weapons as it *is* a melee weapon. The only reason for melee weapons is nonHA OCC and maybe biotics or really low PS scarecrows.

[TechnoGothic]

yes Host Armors can talk. Just like the guyvers and Zoanoids

[Thinyser]

Okay, I like that answer. It was kind of what I was thinking.

As for the living armor's heart, I don't know about that, but it doesn't have a brain--the book says that the pilot supplies the brain.

I'm pretty sure you were the only one who replied . . . *checks* . . . yep.

If it lives it HAS to have a brain, nucleus or something to run it's life functions. Just like your heart can't beat without a brain.

nucleus yes in each cell...brain no. and actually your heart can beat without your brain, its the only muscle in your body that regulates its own contraction (if left too long without input it will fail)

There are many many living things that dont have a heart...one celled organisms.
I look at host armors as a collection of one celled organism where the whole is more than the sum of its parts. Each cell only knows what its job is. There is likely a "heart" (group of muscle cells that contract rythmicly) that pumps "blood" (cells in a liquid suspension that carry oxygen and nutrients) because this is a necessary process to keep the whole thing alive. Other organs kidneys liver lungs etc all exsist because they are necessary to live. "Thinking" and thus a brain to think with, are not necessary for the armor to remain alive. Thinking is for the pilot, his/her thoughts control the host armor's actions.

Warmounts have brains as they can act on their own.