If you could...

[Guest]

While magic is definitely a useful aspect, in the world of Rifts, we all know that there are things we'd like to see it do. If you could have a single spell of your choosing made, what would you have it do and why?

I propose a Paralysis: Greater, which seems to be missing.

[Rimmer]

My inner munchkins wants "WISHES"

[Nekira Sudacne]

Love Charm-from palladium fantasy second edition

[grandmaster z0b]

While magic is definitely a useful aspect, in the world of Rifts, we all know that there are things we'd like to see it do. If you could have a single spell of your choosing made, what would you have it do and why?

I propose a Paralysis: Greater, which seems to be missing.

Weird I was thinking of exactly the same spell 20 minutes ago...

See the invisible: superior - a high level spell that allows the caster to see people or things made invisible by invisibility superior

Teleport: standard - somewhere between teleport simple and superior, allows the caster to teleport himself and anything he is carrying only, similar to a dragons' teleport

Climb as the insect: makes the mages hands and feet sticky like CoA, allows him/her to climb walls equivanlent to their speed -10, +4 per level

[cornholioprime]

Spell: "Magic Projectile/Spell Range Doubler"

...because I'm SICK and TIRED of Mundane Weps increasing their Range with every new Rifts Book (seemingly), while Magical Spells and TW Weps get short shrift and are for the most part STILL stuck at 2000 feet.....20 years later (in Real Time).

I can reliably take out a Mage with a Real World M-16 at that paltry range (Marine Corps Sharpshooter Score: 248), while he can't touch me with most Spells!!!

P.S. YES, I know that KS limits apparently Magical Range for Game Balance Reasons, but I'm still gonna get my Rant on........

[demos606]

Why go for a range doubler when a "looking post" would be so much more effective. Magics greatest rule? Line of sight.

Sight Graft - allows you to see thru the "eyes" of any willing living or mechanical being.

Sorcerous Sight - allows you to "see" from the perspective of a previously marked inanimate object. Enchanted objects require a save vs magic to avoid their innate aura disrupting the spell.

[cornholioprime]

Why go for a range doubler when a "looking post" would be so much more effective. Magics greatest rule? Line of sight.

Sight Graft - allows you to see thru the "eyes" of any willing living or mechanical being.

Sorcerous Sight - allows you to "see" from the perspective of a previously marked inanimate object. Enchanted objects require a save vs magic to avoid their innate aura disrupting the spell.

Those Spells are actually pretty sweet!!!

[Toc Rat]

Not a "new" spell per se but how about an improved version Invulnerability? It got a slight upgrade in the BoM from 35 MDC to 50 MDC but why not go for more? How about 50 MDC per level? That would make a mage actualy seem invulnerable. As it is now one maybe two bursts from most railguns would kill him.

I also think the Golem spell is in serious need of improving. I mean really, what mage is going to give up six of his permenant SDC to create a servent with a pathetic 35 or 80 MDC and a IQ of 6? The mage would be better off buying himself a Triax or Northern Gun make robot servent. I would add a zero to the end of those MDC figures and increase the IQ to at least 9. If I have to actually give up some of my life to make the thing it had better be really worth it!

A super version of telekinesis would also be handy. Something that could lift more then 60 lbs. Not going to be doing much with that.

Necessity is the mother of invention right? So why is that we have a Anti-Magic cloud but not a Ani-Technology cloud? Make it have the same effect on technology as it does magic. Anything tech based, too include TW items, must roll a natural 18,19 or 20 to save. If the roll fails, the item ceases to function for the duration of the magic or until it gets out from under the cloud. If it saves it is at half strength. It's MDC(if any) would remain the same but it's speed, bonuses, ranges of weapons, damage all reduced by half.

Something like that would be invaluable to mages fighting tech foes. They certainly would have then need!

[grandmaster z0b]

Extended Touch. I read somewhere where there is an ability to extend your tactile sensation throughout objects you touch which could include objects all the way up to a size of a house. You don't feel pain or pleasure per say but you "know" where and what is where. I don't think its a spell though.

Maybe this spell could also be used to increase the range of spells that have a listed range of "touch".

[Guest]

I'd fix the speed that spells are actually cast. I mean, a "Call Lighting" being cast, requiring half your melee attacks, could equal a lot of bullets in your chest. It makes the Battle Magus a contradiction, as they are supposed to be focusing on battle, yet they need to waste 7 seconds, give their enemies ample time to stick a few dozen rounds in their head, just to cast a spell that isn't even equal to most heavy coalition weapons? It doesn't make sense, nor is it practical.

[Phadeout]

I think one issue with how many spells you can cast is: 2 attacks for Living rule. That kind of over shadows how many spells you can cast... Before, a 1st level grunt (2 attacks) was a lot more equal to a spell caster (2x 1-6 level spells per round). Now the ol' grunt has 4 attacks to start.

[Sureshot]

What about a EMP spell there is a TW device why not a spell to go with it?
And a reverse version of CoA, Slick remove friction from a given area not offensive and even useful from time to time.

Or at the very least an anti tech spell which is actually somewhat more useful than Negate mechanics. Or an attack spell with range comparable to weapons.

[Toc Rat]

Or at the very least an anti tech spell which is actually somewhat more useful than Negate mechanics. Or an attack spell with range comparable to weapons.

I posted a Anti-Tech cloud spell, similar to the Anti-Magic cloud spell. Check page one of this thread.

[Rimmerdal]

While magic is definitely a useful aspect, in the world of Rifts, we all know that there are things we'd like to see it do. If you could have a single spell of your choosing made, what would you have it do and why?

I propose a Paralysis: Greater, which seems to be missing.

Weird I was thinking of exactly the same spell 20 minutes ago...

See the invisible: superior - a high level spell that allows the caster to see people or things made invisible by invisibility superior

Teleport: standard - somewhere between teleport simple and superior, allows the caster to teleport himself and anything he is carrying only, similar to a dragons' teleport

Climb as the insect: makes the mages hands and feet sticky like CoA, allows him/her to climb walls equivanlent to their speed -10, +4 per level

Did that read the threead CoA I put up...

viewtopic.php?t=41794

[RainOfSteel]

Augmentation (10th)
Range: Special, see below.
Area of Effect: One spell.
Duration: Special, see below.
Saving Throw: None
P.P.E.: Ninety

This spell can double one specific function of another spell of 9th Level or less. Examples: double the duration or range; double the amount of M.D.C. that Armor of Ithan can absorb; etc. First Augmentation is cast, then, within a span of two melees, the spell to be “augmented” is cast. This spell is available either as a spell, or as a ritual. The spell version works only for other spells; while the ritual version works only for other rituals.



Physical Shield (8th)
Range: Touch
Area of Effect: 1 target
Duration: One minute per level
Saving Throw: Standard
P.P.E.: Fifty

This spell generates an invisible floating shield that can protect the target from attacks. The shield has 100 MDC, and can make two Parries per round with the full Parry bonus of the spell’s recipient. Because the shield is magic, it can parry bullets, energy blasts, and attacks from the rear arc; it also presents the plane of the shield at an optimal angle, deflecting 50% of all damage, rather than absorbing it. The shield has no effect on indirect magical attacks like Luck Curse, etc. (can only affect direct fire magical attacks like Fire Bolt, Energy Bolt, etc.). The shield offers only minimal protection against Area Attacks, a +2 to Dodge.



Parachute (4th)
Range: 30ft
Area of Effect: 1 target
Duration: Special
Saving Throw: None
P.P.E.: Ten (10)

Whenever someone is in danger of falling, or is falling, the caster can cast this spell and it will slow the target down to a safe landing speed near the end of the fall. This spell can be activated by, 1: A brief word; or 2: A brief gesture (both are still considered a Magical Melee Attack. Even if the caster has used up all of his or her current Magical Melee Attacks, one can be stolen from the next Melee if necessary). The quick casting time allows for quick saves. Because the spell only slows the target down at the end of the “fall”, there is no limit to the distance a person can safely drop. There is a maximum weight limit of 500 lbs, though.

Given the name of the spell, it is believed to be of modern design. It first appeared in use when the Line Walker Derezd-Karr fell off the fifth story balcony of an old hotel in New Lazlo while somewhat drunk.

[Rimmerdal]

I like the spells. That shield is good idea lets the mage get some protection while casting.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Or at the very least an anti tech spell which is actually somewhat more useful than Negate mechanics. Or an attack spell with range comparable to weapons.

I posted a Anti-Tech cloud spell, similar to the Anti-Magic cloud spell. Check page one of this thread.

no offence, but that spell is just way tottally unbalancing. no way would I even consider allowing it in my games personally. I mean serously, tech needs SOME advantage.

[Rimmerdal]

Or at the very least an anti tech spell which is actually somewhat more useful than Negate mechanics. Or an attack spell with range comparable to weapons.

I posted a Anti-Tech cloud spell, similar to the Anti-Magic cloud spell. Check page one of this thread.

no offence, but that spell is just way tottally unbalancing. no way would I even consider allowing it in my games personally. I mean serously, tech needs SOME advantage.

anti-tech cloud does seem potent. Limit it to a specific type of tech and you may have something...

[Toc Rat]

Oh so eliminating all magic is ok but not tech? I think it is just as fair as the Anti-Magic cloud.

Tech already has enough advantages. Msss production, ranges, damage, the list goes on...

[Rimmerdal]

Any spell can be fair. Revolvers and Automatic pistols are tech,but would not be affected. Also a high cost should be applied to spell...

Say when it's in effect it prevents offensive spells from being cast in that cloud as well. It dampens kinetic energy and energy weapon fire...?

Look I'd have to think on it and work it out, but you are right it is potent and can be unbalancing..so I do have reservgations too.

I think the idea has potential though.

[grandmaster z0b]

Oh so eliminating all magic is ok but not tech? I think it is just as fair as the Anti-Magic cloud.

Tech already has enough advantages. Msss production, ranges, damage, the list goes on...

Yeah as long as it has the same high PPE cost as anti-magic cloud then I don't see a problem.

no offence, but that spell is just way tottally unbalancing. no way would I even consider allowing it in my games personally. I mean serously, tech needs SOME advantage.

huh? are you saying that magic has the advantage over tech? no offence but unless your using PPE Channeling tech has a lot of the advantages.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Oh so eliminating all magic is ok but not tech? I think it is just as fair as the Anti-Magic cloud.

Tech already has enough advantages. Msss production, ranges, damage, the list goes on...

when a mage is trapped in an anti-magic cloud, he can use tech just as easily as a man of arms.

throw a Man of Arms into an anti-tech cloud, he can't use magic to fall back on.

BIG difference.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Oh so eliminating all magic is ok but not tech? I think it is just as fair as the Anti-Magic cloud.

Tech already has enough advantages. Msss production, ranges, damage, the list goes on...

Yeah as long as it has the same high PPE cost as anti-magic cloud then I don't see a problem.

no offence, but that spell is just way tottally unbalancing. no way would I even consider allowing it in my games personally. I mean serously, tech needs SOME advantage.

huh? are you saying that magic has the advantage over tech? no offence but unless your using PPE Channeling tech has a lot of the advantages.

tech needs advantages, otherwise it'd be worthless.

magic has tons of advantages. just not in combat.

[Rimmerdal]

Oh so eliminating all magic is ok but not tech? I think it is just as fair as the Anti-Magic cloud.

Tech already has enough advantages. Msss production, ranges, damage, the list goes on...

when a mage is trapped in an anti-magic cloud, he can use tech just as easily as a man of arms.

throw a Man of Arms into an anti-tech cloud, he can't use magic to fall back on.

BIG difference.

then he should have taken an WP with a weapon that doesn't need power or carry a good MDC weapon NOT powered by an E-clip..Grenades, old school rockets, Shotguns with modified ammo...that sort of thing.

[RainOfSteel]

when a mage is trapped in an anti-magic cloud, he can use tech just as easily as a man of arms.

The use of it may be easy, but the skill and therefore effectiveness with it is another matter.

throw a Man of Arms into an anti-tech cloud, he can't use magic to fall back on.

I do not believe the situations are comparable. They should be comparable, but the Rifts mechanics do not support it.

With a few exceptions, Tech vastly outpaces Magic for capability and utility. Or at least, I see it that way.

[Rimmerdal]

[/quote]
With a few exceptions, Tech vastly outpaces Magic for capability and utility. Or at least, I see it that way.[/quote]

Agreed, Range and adeptibility for one.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Oh so eliminating all magic is ok but not tech? I think it is just as fair as the Anti-Magic cloud.

Tech already has enough advantages. Msss production, ranges, damage, the list goes on...

when a mage is trapped in an anti-magic cloud, he can use tech just as easily as a man of arms.

throw a Man of Arms into an anti-tech cloud, he can't use magic to fall back on.

BIG difference.

then he should have taken an WP with a weapon that doesn't need power or carry a good MDC weapon NOT powered by an E-clip..Grenades, old school rockets, Shotguns with modified ammo...that sort of thing.

the spell shouldn't exsist to begin with.

i'm really tired of people trying to do a lot of stuff to make magic "equal" to tech. they're comparing apples and oranges.

[Rimmerdal]

As you well know Nek, I have what seems to be a uniquie view so it may sound odd for me to say this but here goes..

It'll happen. I don't like much either, both are different means to the same end.

on the other tech is the same..But I hear ya compairing apple and oranges is a pain..

I try not to do it, but my philosophy on 'the same end is only a bi-product of different means..' makes it tough somedays.

[Nekira Sudacne]

As you well know Nek, I have what seems to be a uniquie view so it may sound odd for me to say this but here goes..

It'll happen. I don't like much either, both are different means to the same end.

on the other tech is the same..But I hear ya compairing apple and oranges is a pain..

I try not to do it, but my philosophy on 'the same end is only a bi-product of different means..' makes it tough somedays.

There's a bevy of stuff magic can do Tech, even phase world tech, can't even approach. technology has NOTHING even remotely like hte Impentrable wall of force. NOTHING technologcial can ever harm something vunerable ONLY to magic (like some superheros).

I see no need to make them any different.

(PS, even so, I use either a houserule saying any non-ritual spell takes one melee attack, or any spell up to your current level takes only one attack, spells level 2-7 take 2 attacks, levels 8-12 take 3 attacks, and spells levels 13-15 take the whole melee)

[Nekira Sudacne]

oh yes, for the people for teh anti-tech cloud. please keep this in mind.


Anti-magic cloud is a MAGIC spell. meaning it's MAGIC designed to counter other magic. Technology can NOT do anything even REMOTELY like it.

Anti-Tech cloud is a MAGIC spell, designed to counter tech. Tech has no counter. while magic has no counter to anti-magic cloud, guess what, TECH CAN'T DO IT. so it's not even close to the same thing.

[Guest]

the spell shouldn't exsist to begin with.

i'm really tired of people trying to do a lot of stuff to make magic "equal" to tech. they're comparing apples and oranges.

Actually, you're looking at this wrong. I think it's a fine idea, worthy of consideration. Yes, technology and magic are at a constant battle of advantage. Obviously, technology wins on the combat field, the majority of the time. However, with the proper line of thought, it actually can be more deadly. Just don't waste your spells against a single opponent. Use area affect spells before you actaully enter the field. In melee combat, distance combat, and other related areas, technology will hold advantage. The cloud will simply give another advantage card on a field where the chips aren't evenly dispersed.

[Nekira Sudacne]

the spell shouldn't exsist to begin with.

i'm really tired of people trying to do a lot of stuff to make magic "equal" to tech. they're comparing apples and oranges.

Actually, you're looking at this wrong. I think it's a fine idea, worthy of consideration. Yes, technology and magic are at a constant battle of advantage. Obviously, technology wins on the combat field, the majority of the time. However, with the proper line of thought, it actually can be more deadly. Just don't waste your spells against a single opponent. Use area affect spells before you actaully enter the field. In melee combat, distance combat, and other related areas, technology will hold advantage. The cloud will simply give another advantage card on a field where the chips aren't evenly dispersed.

again:

oh yes, for the people for teh anti-tech cloud. please keep this in mind.


Anti-magic cloud is a MAGIC spell. meaning it's MAGIC designed to counter other magic. Technology can NOT do anything even REMOTELY like it.

Anti-Tech cloud is a MAGIC spell, designed to counter tech. Tech has no counter. while magic has no counter to anti-magic cloud, guess what, TECH CAN'T DO IT. so it's not even close to the same thing.

so while anti-magic cloud is magic vs tech. Tech has NO anti-magic cloud to counter with.

unbalancing, unfair, unsueable.

[Guest]

so while anti-magic cloud is magic vs tech. Tech has NO anti-magic cloud to counter with.

unbalancing, unfair, unsueable.

Which is why they proposed that it only affect certain aspects of technology. It's not going to be like a Matrix E.M.P. style attack. Stop radio signals, cause nightvision goggles to go a slight haze. Thermal vision picking up odd signals. Laser distancers not turning on. No one said it would shut down a few SAMAS. I believe there is already a spell like what I described. This would simply be more of an area affect. Make it so the offending character who must save against this can still retain 85%-90% of all technological systems, which is more then ample to survive against in a battle.

[Nekira Sudacne]

so while anti-magic cloud is magic vs tech. Tech has NO anti-magic cloud to counter with.

unbalancing, unfair, unsueable.

Which is why they proposed that it only affect certain aspects of technology. It's not going to be like a Matrix E.M.P. style attack. Stop radio signals, cause nightvision goggles to go a slight haze. Thermal vision picking up odd signals. Laser distancers not turning on. No one said it would shut down a few SAMAS. I believe there is already a spell like what I described. This would simply be more of an area affect. Make it so the offending character who must save against this can still retain 85%-90% of all technological systems, which is more then ample to survive against in a battle.

only if you give Tech a kind of paranormal energy feild generator that will knock out all of certain kinds of spells. you know, knocking out all vision enhancement spells, all electricity spells, ect...

[Toc Rat]

Magic got shafted in Rifts big time. It is not comparing apples and oranges either. It is has been said in the books it is two different means of achieving the same ends. If that was the case then why is tech sooooo much better at combat to name just one thing?

Tech beats magic hands down in production too. Even TW items aren't mass produced like tech items are.

One of the biggest problems I have with the Rifts system is the weakness of magic against tech foes. In straight up combat the power armor pilot will blow you away from 4000 feet. Turn invisible you say? Thermal optics defeats that. Don't talk to me about the superior version either, the second you make an attack you become visible again. Using the standard rules(not house rules) a mage can make at most 2 magical "attacks" per melee. A 1st level Coalition grunt with his C-12 laser rifle will make 4 attacks. His buddies the RPA's in their Enforcer will be making 6. At first level! It takes years to make a 1st level mage. It takes about 11 weeks to make a first level grunt. The grunts can die by the dozens and it's not great loss to the CS. On the other hand each and every mage that dies is a loss that will take 15+ years to replace on the magic nation's side.

Now then, all that being said, how is it that the Techies haven't over run the entire world yet? Going strictly by the rules, there should be no reason why they haven't crushed all others. Particularly after reading the @#$% in the SoT. It was bad enough that the CS barely stubbed it's toe but to go "POOF" magic just stops working?! That was lame.

Dont get me wrong, I think that there are some magical attacks that a pure tech using foe can not counter. However in each case they are more strategic attacks rather then tactical ones. Sabotaging of agriculture, industry, etc. For front line combat tech is the clear winner.

I'd like to see new spells and or a system change that would even things up a bit. Maybe the Anti-Tech cloud as I have outlined it is too strong. maybe but I don't think so. The spells we got in the first FoM book helped out too. Sub-particle Acceleration, Annihilation, etc. Still not enough to counter the fact that you will only get one of those spells off per round. Maybe two. And when the mage runs out of PPE? He can't just slot a new E-clip like a tech user can. He has to run away(if he can) and wait for hours at a nexus point or ley-line. None available? You get to wait for even longer.

[Guest]

only if you give Tech a kind of paranormal energy feild generator that will knock out all of certain kinds of spells. you know, knocking out all vision enhancement spells, all electricity spells, ect...

No. First you complain about magic having a advantage over tech if the spell exists. Then you propose something that will give tech an even greater advantage then it already has. The difference is that the magic is simply trying to level the playing field. You're proposing that it gain something that in a situation, tech gives a thumb, magic gives an arm. Now that's irrational.

If the coalition, however, were to come up with a magnetic field generator that disperses the use of large p.p.e. to reduce range, duration, and damage by 15%, all the more power to them.

[demos606]

So it's balanced and/or fair that tech has better range, damage, protection and general versatility than Magic? It's fair that Tech can virtually nullify the effectiveness of magic (giant robot, vehicles, EBA)? It's fair that Magic can't do anything to reduce the effectiveness or range of Tech?

Sorry, I'm not buying the "fairness" angle here. I'll agree that Tech can't do a lot of things Magic can but in most aspects, Tech has all the advantages that actually matter.

[Guest]

So it's balanced and/or fair that tech has better range, damage, protection and general versatility than Magic? It's fair that Tech can virtually nullify the effectiveness of magic (giant robot, vehicles, EBA)? It's fair that Magic can't do anything to reduce the effectiveness or range of Tech?

Sorry, I'm not buying the "fairness" angle here. I'll agree that Tech can't do a lot of things Magic can but in most aspects, Tech has all the advantages that actually matter.

Right on Demos!

[Nekira Sudacne]

only if you give Tech a kind of paranormal energy feild generator that will knock out all of certain kinds of spells. you know, knocking out all vision enhancement spells, all electricity spells, ect...

No. First you complain about magic having a advantage over tech if the spell exists. Then you propose something that will give tech an even greater advantage then it already has. The difference is that the magic is simply trying to level the playing field. You're proposing that it gain something that in a situation, tech gives a thumb, magic gives an arm. Now that's irrational.

If the coalition, however, were to come up with a magnetic field generator that disperses the use of large p.p.e. to reduce range, duration, and damage by 15%, all the more power to them.

no, I think the feild is already level and putting any kind of anti-tech magic in will unbalance it in favor of magic.

[Toc Rat]

Wait! I forget to mention the spell saves too! Against a spell you need only a 12 or better and increased PE means a better save. Hmm lets do the math here, when casting a spell against a target(s) on average, 9 out of 20 will not be effected by the magic! That's almost 50%!

In the case of soldiers it gets even worse. Speaking as a soldier let me tell you, we do have high endurance stats as it were. I would say most of us in the US army have PE scores of 15 or higher. In the case of actual infantry I would say 18 at minimum, 20 more likely. In the case of special forces, Rangers, Path finders, Marines, those numbers go even higher.

So lets just say the average CS grunt, Merc, or Triax grunt, has a PE of 18. Thats a +2 Vs magic. Meaning instead of 9 out of 20 not being effected, you get 11 out of 20. A greater then 50% margin. That's lousy odds for spells you are counting on to work.

So lets see, not only do you have to somehow get within 100 feet to cast that Befuddle spell, chances are it won't work. Tell me again how Tech needs more advantages over magic?

[Nekira Sudacne]

So it's balanced and/or fair that tech has better range, damage, protection and general versatility than Magic? It's fair that Tech can virtually nullify the effectiveness of magic (giant robot, vehicles, EBA)? It's fair that Magic can't do anything to reduce the effectiveness or range of Tech?

Sorry, I'm not buying the "fairness" angle here. I'll agree that Tech can't do a lot of things Magic can but in most aspects, Tech has all the advantages that actually matter.

that's because your only looking at magic from a combat angle. there's a freaking BOATLOAD of stuff magic can do that tech can't.


they just arn't as hot with doing it in combat. and ya know what? i'm cool with that. if a magic is stupid enough to allow a group of tech guys get him when he's not prepared, he DESERVES to die.

because magic, used properlly. means that group of CS soldgiers will never get a chance to begin with.

and yes, that often means escaping and running form battle until you can fight on YOUR terms.

[Guest]

no, I think the feild is already level and putting any kind of anti-tech magic in will unbalance it in favor of magic.

Ley line walker: Cast Subparticle Acceleration! Melee attack 1
Grunt: Fires from his weapon
Ley Line Walker: *THUD*...Bleed
Grunt: Spit, fires another shot, this time in the head.
Ley Line Walker: *dead* Spell wasn't even close to being cast.

Yeah, that's fair. It's even. Man. It's like a giant scale of power. To say that tech and magic are even on the battle field is insane. No way. We're not talking about magic being used outside of the battle nek. We're talking about guns blazing.

[Nekira Sudacne]

no, I think the feild is already level and putting any kind of anti-tech magic in will unbalance it in favor of magic.

Ley line walker: Cast blind! melee round 1.
Grunt: Fires from his weapon
Ley Line Walker: *THUD*...Bleed
Grunt: Spit, fires another shot, this time in the head.
Ley Line Walker: *dead*

Yeah, that's fair. It's even. Man. It's like a giant scale of power. To say that tech and magic are even on the battle field is insane. No way.

battle feild? when the hell did I say they were even on the battle feild? they're not.

they're even OVERALL.



for gods sake man, it's like complaining that your City Rat will get his clocked cleaned by a Mega Juicer.


if you don't have a problem with that, you have NO reason to have a problem with tech cleaning a mages clock on the battlefeild.

[Guest]

battle feild? when the hell did I say they were even on the battle feild? they're not.

they're even OVERALL.



for gods sake man, it's like complaining that your City Rat will get his clocked cleaned by a Mega Juicer.


if you don't have a problem with that, you have NO reason to have a problem with tech cleaning a mages clock on the battlefeild.

We're not talking about a different of O.C.C.'s here. That's not even remotely similar. Magic vs. Tech. That's what it is. This is much more broad an issue. Now you're talking apples and oranges.

[Toc Rat]

There is good reason to have a problem. You see there are some nasty people out there that hate mages. The are also mass murders to say the least. NO talking about it, NO running away. They are coming for each and every spell caster in the world...and they want you dead, dead, dead.

So, that being the case, mages have either two choices.
One: Fight
Two: Die

Thats it. Thats the choice. Now here's the rest of it, the ones that want all the mages dead? They use Technology. Technology, as everyone here as agreed, beats magic hands down in combat. "battle feild? when the hell did I say they were even on the battle feild? they're not. "

It seems to me that if mages will be required to fight or die(that means combat) against tech foes, then they should have compairable abilities "on the battlefield".

Otherwise they will just be stomped in to the ground...and tech goes marching on...

[Nekira Sudacne]

battle feild? when the hell did I say they were even on the battle feild? they're not.

they're even OVERALL.



for gods sake man, it's like complaining that your City Rat will get his clocked cleaned by a Mega Juicer.


if you don't have a problem with that, you have NO reason to have a problem with tech cleaning a mages clock on the battlefeild.

We're not talking about a different of O.C.C.'s here. That's not even remotely similar. Magic vs. Tech. That's what it is. This is much more broad an issue. Now you're talking apples and oranges.

there's one big reason why I never liked the magic vs. tech argument.



theres NO reason they have to fight each-other at all. the smart thing to do is use both.

[Toc Rat]

theres NO reason they have to fight each-other at all. the smart thing to do is use both.

Miss my post from above?

[Nekira Sudacne]

There is good reason to have a problem. You see there are some nasty people out there that hate mages. The are also mass murders to say the least. NO talking about it, NO running away. They are coming for each and every spell caster in the world...and they want you dead, dead, dead.

So, that being the case, mages have either two choices.
One: Fight
Two: Die

Thats it. Thats the choice. Now here's the rest of it, the ones that want all the mages dead? They use Technology. Technology, as everyone here as agreed, beats magic hands down in combat. "battle feild? when the hell did I say they were even on the battle feild? they're not. "

It seems to me that if mages will be required to fight or die(that means combat) against tech foes, then they should have compairable abilities "on the battlefield".

Otherwise they will just be stomped in to the ground...and tech goes marching on...

so why use only magic?

use both, work togeather, THEY foolishly limit themselves to only tech.


no reason you have to limit yourself to only magic.

[Guest]

there's one big reason why I never liked the magic vs. tech argument.



theres NO reason they have to fight each-other at all. the smart thing to do is use both.

Lol. Unfortunately, you've got a large army arguing against that. Actaully, more then one. The peace issue...well...it's more like pieces. I'm all for tech+magic, but they usually and often don't mix. Except TW.

[Toc Rat]

so why use only magic?

use both, work togeather, THEY foolishly limit themselves to only tech.


no reason you have to limit yourself to only magic.

Oh, I agree that the CS are being complete idiots by limiting themselves to Tech and some psionics. Dont get me wrong there. I was simply pointing out that Mages have tech using enemies that want them all dead. If magic can't fight tech effectivly on the battlefield, then its all over for them. Thats what I call unbalancing.

For the record, I once posted many many moons ago on thread about what you would do with the CS if it was yours to command. One of my changes was the re-creation of the CS magic division. I kept the whole human supremacy thing, just added magic.