After The Bomb: A question of chronology

[Rali]

I thought that this discussion needed a thread of it's own.

What is the number between the AtB,s Big Death and it,s Current time?

I need to known the number of years have pass so the Population of my undersea colony is not to big.

It have a pop of 520 at the time of the Big Death.

A Sister ship of the Uss Ticonderoga (from Rifts underseas) will join them.
it,s call U.S.S Bunker Hill.

I once had the aproximate number of years calculated out from the time of the "Crash" / "Big Death" and the time insinuated by certain NPC descriptions in the book, but I can't find it right now. If I were to wager a guess, I'd say that it worked out to be 60 years or so. Most assuradly less than century.

I don't have the book with me (am at work) but there are at least three NPC's to note when trying to determine the time:

#1 - Emperor Christian: he was around before the "Crash", and it took him a while to find the fusion reactor(?) where he laid the foundation for Technoville and the Human Empire. I can't remember if his true age is listed in his Bio, but you can figure that he was somewhere in his twenties when the "Crash" happened.

#2 - The Elder Horse (can't remember his name) in the Plains of the Free Cattle. He was also from the time before the "Crash".

#3 - The mad scientist from the game scenario in the original AtB book (was that included in the 2nd Edition? Can't remember...). I'm sure he was alive before the "Crash", and his age may be listed as well.

Working all that together I'm sure only 60-or-so years have passed since the "Crash".

AtB and AtB2 both talk about the Crash (or the Death, as I prefer it to be called) happening a few years after the beginning of the 21st century (circa 2003?), and Mutants In Avalon even specifically states that the Mutants in Avalon scenario/campaign is occuring 150 years after the Crash. Also, you can't use the year 1999 as that is the date that the EHS Joesph McCarthy was built and I'd highly doubt that people are going to be too awfully concerned with building an eco friendly aircraft carrier during a war.

Also, Transdimensional TMNT states that "After the Bomb" as described in the original supplements occurs 2113 AD (page 77). 2113 being the state of affairs as depicted in the supplements, not the time of the cataclysm itself.

But there are discrepancies...the Emperor is 96 years old, and it does state that he was leading a renegade a militaty unit at the time of the apocalypse and "liberated" the nuclear reactor from a peaceful scientific community. If he was military, and he was the leader of a military unit prior to the Death, I would feel more comfortable putting him in his late twenties to early thirties; but it depends on what rank he was (I'd be conservative and use Captain). That gives an approximate current setting date of somewhere around 2063.

Wilbur is listed at being 136 years old, and again, he is from the time of the apocalypse. He's a 14th level post graduate Doctor, I'd say he was early 40's at the time of the Death. That gives an approximate current setting date of somewhere around 2099.

Weschek, leader of the Plains of the Free Cattle is 84 and his description also states that he was born before the cataclysm. He's a horse, so it really doesn't matter too much what age he was at the time of the Death since we don't have a background to go off of like Wilbur's education level.

Mutants of the Yucatan makes reference to an elderly Dr. Ralph Flemes whom teaches Yum Nacom Itzcoli (Paco) about a Quantum Device; as well as some other stuff. Anyways, we don't get an age on the good doctor but we could interpolate it if we really wanted too given that we know Paco is 40, and that Paco killed the doctor when he was 13.

Using Christian, Wilbur, and Weschek's ages make the 150 year mark and 2113 hard to swallow. But, there are references to all nonetheless. The arguement could be made that Transdimensional TMNT isn't an AtB supplement, and the 2113 is listed as a twist, so some rules lawyers may be able to get that tossed out. But, Mutants in Avalon specifically states that it's scenario is occuring 150 years after the Death occurs. So between Emperor Christian and Mutants in Avalon, we've lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 to 90 years.

I prefer the 2113 date myself.

[Rali]

Mutants In Avalon even specifically states that the Mutants in Avalon scenario/campaign is occurring 150 years after the Crash.

Transdimensional TMNT states that "After the Bomb" as described in the original supplements occurs 2113 AD (page 77). 2113 being the state of affairs as depicted in the supplements, not the time of the cataclysm itself.

The argument could be made that Transdimensional TMNT isn't an AtB supplement.

Nothing says the old supplements took place in the same time period. So it is possible that the "Mutants in Avalon" scenarios do take place around a century after the events depicted in the After the Bomb book.

As for Transdimensional TMNT, it is not an AtB supplement and should not be seen as such. The twist in that book which refers to the period setting of AtB could take place at any point in that setting, and like "Mutants in Avalon" could take place before or after the period described in the original AtB or AtB 2nd Ed.

I'm pretty sure I've read that a concrete date for the AtB setting's origin was never given so that GM's could sculp it to suit their stories and games. It's all fantasy, even if that fantay seems more and more possible every decade that passes, so trying to base it to heavily in the real world just causes to many problems.

For those people who want to run the setting 150 years after the "Crash"/"Big Death", I'd recommend either making some of the people referred to in the book(s) who survived the holocaust and turning them into historical personalities of note, and not use them as NPCs. Some people, like Emperor Christian, could possibly still be around due to mutant powers, possibly some genetic experimentation that extends their lifespan, maybe they found a cryogenic tube, or even found the Quantum device described in "Mutants of the Yucatan" or one similar to it that was lost in some University basement.

In RPG's the possibilities are endless, so don't write anything in stone.

[gordyzx9r]

Nothing says the old supplements took place in the same time period. So it is possible that the "Mutants in Avalon" scenarios do take place around a century after the events depicted in the After the Bomb book.

AtB2's description of the SAECSN describes their impending foray into Britain. And IMO, since AtB2 is now the quasi AtB compendium, if it's listing the intentions of the SAECSN, then their current situation is on par with the rest of the world, meaning everything is taking place relatively at the same time.

[Rali]

AtB2's description of the SAECSN describes their impending foray into Britain. And IMO, since AtB2 is now the quasi AtB compendium, if it's listing the intentions of the SAECSN, then their current situation is on par with the rest of the world, meaning everything is taking place relatively at the same time.

Yup, that brings the "Avalon" time line back into alignment with the rest of the world in AtB 2nd Ed. So, if anyone uses the old "Mutants in Avalon" book, just disrgard any references to it taking place 150 years after the "Crash" / "Big Death".

[gordyzx9r]

AtB2's description of the SAECSN describes their impending foray into Britain. And IMO, since AtB2 is now the quasi AtB compendium, if it's listing the intentions of the SAECSN, then their current situation is on par with the rest of the world, meaning everything is taking place relatively at the same time.

Yup, that brings the "Avalon" time line back into alignment with the rest of the world in AtB 2nd Ed. So, if anyone uses the old "Mutants in Avalon" book, just disrgard any references to it taking place 150 years after the "Crash" / "Big Death".

The arguement could be made that you can't disregard it since AtB2 specifically states that the reader should refer to the Mutants in Avalon supplement for more detailed information in regards to the SAECSN.

I need to look at Mutants in Orbit when I get back and see if there is anything in there that alludes to a timeline, since it is technically an AtB supplement as well.

IMO, an easier fix would be to just make the Emperor and Weschek older (to make up for the disparity with Wilbur) and give any number of science fiction responses, such as methusalism, cyrogenics, genetic alterations, chemicals, effects of radiation, etc.

[gordyzx9r]

Mutants In Orbit makes a few vague references to use in forming a timeline...

The first one is in reference to the Mars Base. It tells the reader that 60 years after the flash, the inhabitants fell prey to a mad scientist's agenda; and that 19 years ago that the last human inhabitants were killed. Then, there is another reference to the base being abandoned for 70 years.

So what do we get from that? The base has been abandoned 70 years from which figure, 60 or 79; giving us a figure of either 130 or 149 years from the Death (or the crash as they call it).

Also, there is another reference that says that space is filled with the debri of 100 years of exploration and dumping, and two hundred years of chaos. So, 100 years from 1957 (Sputnik I) gives us 2057, 2057? The crash happened in 2057? And does 200 years of chaos mean that it's now 2257? Too far into the future, IMO.

[Rali]

Mutants In Orbit makes a few vague references to use in forming a timeline...there is another reference that says that space is filled with the debri of 100 years of exploration and dumping, and two hundred years of chaos. So, 100 years from 1957 (Sputnik I) gives us 2057, 2057? The crash happened in 2057? And does 200 years of chaos mean that it's now 2257? Too far into the future, IMO.

Yes and no.

It is possible when you look at Transdimensional TMNT (TD:TMNT). In this book, Time Twist 2: Mutagen World or Wild Planet takes place in 2238 and describes a world in which all the remaining nations on Earth evacuated into space. We already know from "Mutants in Orbit" that there were several space stations in existence during the "Flash" / "Crash" / "Big Death", so the Mars Base reference would be correct if you place the meat of the "Mutants in Orbit" book taking place in TD:TMNT Twist 2 chronology.

Unfortunatly, the reference to "Mutants in Avalon" taking place 150 years after the "Big Death" doesn't really work with the Twist 2 chronology...

Now, here's something to keep in mind when referring to the chronological discrepancies in "Mutants in Orbit" and "Mutants in Avalon", neither of those books were written by Erick Wujcik. "Mutants in Avalon" was written by James Wallis, and "Mutants in Orbit" was written by James Wallis & Kevin Siembieda. So it's hard to say if James was using the time TD: TMNT time line as reference, or if he was creating his own. Of note: "Transdimentional TMNT" was written by Erick Wujicik.

With that, you can say that with After the Bomb 2nd Edition, Erick was trying to bring the settings into a single timeline. So while some of the dates and temporal references made in Wallis's books will have to be ignored or used as future point references in an AtB campaign, they both can still be used (as long as you don't treat everything in the books as set in stone, infallible, facts)

I would like to say, off the topic, that I personally like the Mutagen World alternate(?) future for AtB. It would make an interesting campaign to try to prevent it's occurance. Characters could somehow get a glimpse of the grim future via the Aztec-Land "Time Window" (Adventures in the Yucatan, Cat. No. 512; Pg 12)*, or some similar artifact, and then try to stop that future from happening by stabalizing the mutations before they go wild.

* "Adventures in the Yucatan" comes/came packed with the TMNT&OS and AtB Game Shields in the "TMNT RPG Accessory Pack" Cat. No. 512 ISBN 0916211-45-2 (No longer in print)
[EDITED to correct the an error as to where the AitY Adventure Book was located]

[Rali]

I got a bug up my butt to write an article regarding setting a "benchmark" date as to when The Death happened and when the setting of AtB2 is set.

Instead of creating a new thread where a lot of the old issues would probably get rehashed, I'm tossing this at the end of the last thread this dead horse was beaten in, and linking to another thread [LINK] which Erick Wujcik commented in.

The full article is posted at my AtB Blog, but here is a snippet

It's always bothered me that Palladium never gave a date for the After the Bomb setting, not that it should really matter, but it would help to figure the tech level to the world before the human society fell (aka The Crash, The Death, The Big Death, The Bomb, The Flash, etc..), and how much time has passed for decay and rebirth to change the environments of the new Earth.

However, if you know where to look, you should be able to come up with dates to use. The most obvious being the year of The Death...

(CONTINUE)