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Why? Why would ever need to do any of these things? wha the hell kind of party are you running that you feel the need to beef up the Mechanoids?

I demo'ed a glitterboy in 45 seconds with these guys...set an as-of-yet unbroken record in my gaming crew. So many PC's died trying to stop the invasion of Rifts Earth that in the end we all just stopped playing ti and moved on to something else.

The Mechanoids attach through attrition and sheer weight of numbers. Runts and Thinmen are disposable and therefore don't need a forcefield...there are a billion more where that one i just killed came from.

By upping their technology too much, you make it utterly impossible for players to even touch them. Now if that's what you're going for...you are on the right track. But if you want your players to have some fun...leave the Mechanoids alone.

The Mechanoids are plenty tough as things are.

IF you wanted to beef them up more, I would say that there are better options than giving them more powerful technology.

Give them magic.
Even if they can't us it themselves for some reason, captured Techno-Wizards could beef up mechanoids something fierce.

Wasps with built in features like Impervious to energy, Ley Line Booster, Invisibility: Superior, and a Protective Force Field would be even more devastating than they are now.

Up their technology? They have starships bigger in dimensions (and almost bigger in volume) than the whole planet Earth. These starships carry billions of troops, and can eat stars (planets won't be much of distraction unless invasion is actually required). I really don't think they need higher technology. What they need is a course in anger management.

ManDrake13 wrote:It's funny because the invasion of Earth was the reason I thought they needed an upgrade. Their numbers were so small that it showed up some definite weaknesses. Also my groups tend to favor magic, and the Mechanoids weren't able to stand up to an enemy that didn't stand still and let themselves get mobbed. I guess I just never was impressed with them as they were.

Your GM was using them wrong.

ManDrake13 wrote:Mechanoids are as easy to beat as any other over dependant technology opponents.

And how is that...?

Their psionics make them slightly more challenging, than say the Glitterboy example that was used earlier, but they aren't impossible to beat.

It sounds like your GM isn't using GBs right either...

In the Glitterboy example, the GB (who won inittiative) blew a Brute into kindling... then ate so many plasma mini missiles that over the next 3 rounds, the pilot ws forced to bail out.

We have never seen the like befeore or since.

ManDrake13 wrote:Has anyone else tried to soup them up to a more effective level to make them a more interesting opponent for players?

J. Lionheart's head explodes

Adds another quote to his list of "Quotes indicating how munchkinized RIFTS can sometimes be."

Braden, GMPhD wrote:In the Glitterboy example, the GB (who won inittiative) blew a Brute into kindling... then ate so many plasma mini missiles that over the next 3 rounds, the pilot ws forced to bail out.

We have never seen the like befeore or since.

That would do it...

ManDrake13 wrote:Mechanoids are as easy to beat as any other over dependant technology opponents.

Um..

Are you sure youre reading the stats right?

And the amount of Mechanoids?

Geronimo 2.0 wrote:If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly.

Exactly. The one adventure I used them I souped them up slightly: The Brute could use his psi-sword out of both hands, and the Wasp could volley fire all of its forward energy weapons in one blast (like many Robotech mecha). I had one character try to go hand-to-hand with the Brute and got smacked down hard. He got saved by a judicial amount of mini-missiles fired by a partner. During the same battle, the group had 3 CS Mark V APCs taking on 1 Wasp. The Wasp came around for a strafing run and volley fired on one APC. He rolled a natural 20, then rolled near max on the damage dice. Did something like 600 points of damage in one hit. When that happened, the group stopped worrying about the Thin Men and concentrated all their fire on the Wasp, it lasted two more actions and damaged another APC before it died. Funny thing is, they ran into one of those Brain Tanks and engaged it with the two remaining APCs. Ironically, the forward APC nailed the Tank with all of its forward mini-missiles in the first round (killing it), then it got nailed by all of the mini-missiles from the APC behind it when that pilot rolled two critical 1s in a row. The group lost 2 APCs, a Borg, a Dogboy, a CS Military Specialist, and two group members during that adventure. Cool thing was, they found 20 sheets of artificial diamonds in the cargo bay of the Mechanoid Digger they cleaned out.

The truely scary thing is, because they didn't know that the Mechanoids were cyborgs, they didn't think to dig out their brain cases and destroy them. They ended up leaving a Brute, a Brain, and 2 Wasps out there in western Maryland.

Geronimo 2.0 wrote:If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly.

So true. Sigged.

To be fair, the Mechanoid Invasion of Earth failed not because of their technology, but because they were not able to bring their full numbers to bear. The tiny doorway they breached into Rifts Earth closed up on them, leaving the Mechanoids that had arrived stranded and with no way to call on reinforcements. They were outnumbered and their supposed "ally" ARCHIE 3 turned on them.

The ones that were stranded still represented a big danger and, if I recall correctly, drew the attention of Atlantis and its Kittani population.

I just finished running a Mechanoid themed adventure this weekend, and one point of improvement did come to mind. The Brain Tank's missile launchers reek. The mediums are fine, the mini-missile launchers are woefully under-tubed. They carry 72 missiles, but can only fire 3 at a time?? What's the point? That's like having a firehose with a straw as the nozzle. I'd definately consider increasing the number of tubes to 6 or 12. That would make it more effective.

Funny thing is, the most effective Mechanoids this time around were the Exterminators. Their frag missiles are just scary. Killed three Gargoyles, exposed a NGR infilitrator borg, and almost killed one of the PCs who got caught in the blast radius. Scared the bejesus out of the rest of the players, especially when they realized that the Exterminators didn't care about the Thinmen and Runts in front of them.

Kestrel wrote:Normally, the Mechanoids do not need to upgrade.

First, they have a self-image. Their borg bodies are as integral to their self-identity as our bodies are to us. Only a very mentally stable Mechanoid will subject their own bodies to an upgrade. With this said, it may be possible to upgrade robots more easily.

The Mechanoids definitely have the technology to upgrade to more advanced versions, yet Mechanoids seem to design their bodies for multiple uses rather than focus solely on combat. After all, most Mechanoids may spend years, or decades before finding a humanoid-filled planet to slaughter. Most of that time will be spent socializing with their own kind, or exploring.

While that is true for the rest of the designs, the tank is pretty much designed for use in combat by the brains. It just seems very odd that they would make a design with so many missiles, but with inadequate launchers to fire them. Not when you consider the Exterminator, who is able to fire a large volume of its missiles in one volley.

I don't see why the Mechanoids need much of an improvement...
Anyone know how long it would take for them to modify, overhaul or rebuild that many units?

They would likely want to simply continue to use what they have until they absolutely have to upgrade, or they get into a situation where they have to replace so many units that they could afford to put upgraded designs into production since they would have to make a lot of replacements in the first place.

devillin wrote:

Kestrel wrote:Normally, the Mechanoids do not need to upgrade.

First, they have a self-image. Their borg bodies are as integral to their self-identity as our bodies are to us. Only a very mentally stable Mechanoid will subject their own bodies to an upgrade. With this said, it may be possible to upgrade robots more easily.

The Mechanoids definitely have the technology to upgrade to more advanced versions, yet Mechanoids seem to design their bodies for multiple uses rather than focus solely on combat. After all, most Mechanoids may spend years, or decades before finding a humanoid-filled planet to slaughter. Most of that time will be spent socializing with their own kind, or exploring.

While that is true for the rest of the designs, the tank is pretty much designed for use in combat by the brains. It just seems very odd that they would make a design with so many missiles, but with inadequate launchers to fire them. Not when you consider the Exterminator, who is able to fire a large volume of its missiles in one volley.

It does give it much better staying power as far as mini-missiles.
The Exterminator may be able to fire twice as many as once, but only has 1/4 the missile payload.

Sometimes it's handy to be able to have some additional firepower over an extended duration rather than have a lot more firepower over a much shorter duration.

The Exterminators are aggressive, but their missile launchers are not that big. It makes sense that they can use up most of their missiles in under 15 seconds. It seems to be part of their 'job', to "exterminate" things.

For the multi-brain combat vehicle, it is not a real tank. It is made for a lot of things, like exploration, transport and defense, and to operate in "hostile environments". To me, that means it is not made as a major offensive platform. The brains are the effective generals and commanding officers, after all. Not like they need to be risking themselves in a situation where they would need to use a lot of missiles at once.
Sure, a general might be at the front lines with their troops, but I doubt they would be fighting side by side with the forward units unless things were going down the drain fast.