R:UE...did you notice...

[The Ruiner]

Did anyone else notice that psi-stalkers are now considered mega-damage beings (their hit points anyway) when fighting an M.D.C. creature of magic or supernatural being?

Your thoughts?

[TechnoGothic]

Did anyone else notice that psi-stalkers are now considered mega-damage beings (their hit points anyway) when fighting an M.D.C. creature of magic or supernatural being?

Your thoughts?

retarded was my first reaction...
Wait, its still my reaction...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

personally i like that idea and with the focus on supernatural and creatures of magic makes them more like how the cyber knight used to be since the CK have turn anti tech now

[Astral_Explorer]

Prior to this it would seem the many tribes of Psi-Stalkers would not have stood much of a chance against the very things they needed to fight to gain nourishment from.

They still can't strike for MD and only their HP become MDC so they dont have much MDC, but atleast it provides some protection to the wild Psi-Stalkers who don't have deadboy armor.

[Jefffar]

So . . basically, a Psi Stalker treats the MDC hand to hand attacks of a SN creature as SDC?

That actually works a lot better for me than doing what all the other super psychics do and generatign a tk force field.

It makes the Psi-stalker a true hunter and killer of SN creatures while not possessing even minimal gear.

Does it say anything about Psi-stalker hand to hand attacks doing MD to the SN creature?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

turns hit points to limited MDC but they still only do sdc damage, but then again 6 psi stalker, two armored with mdc weapons could still take a monster down with easy

[Daniel Stoker]

it only makes sense... I mean they hunt SUPERNATURAL creatures that are MDC and deal MDC damage... If they were SDC, they wouldn't last too long as a "wild" race.

<looks up... hmms> Yup. What he said.



Daniel Stoker

[Daniel Stoker]

Idiotic was my first, second and third reaction. So what the new rules say is if a demon fires an energy bolt at the psi-stalker he is (at least partially) MDC, but if a thug shoots him with a Wilks lazer pistol wile standing next to said demon the psi-stalker is just a squishy SDC creature? Makes no sense to me.

Because one attack is a magical MDC attack and since Psi-Stalkers feed off of Supernatural/Magic creatures they typically need some sort of immunity since many to most of them are and do MDC damage? It's a psionic/magical defence, it doesn't have to follow the laws of physics.



Daniel Stoker

[Mech-Viper Prime]

makes sense to me, since the demon is not attacking , why should he get anything for the demon just being there but since this is still new give it some time

[RockJock]

I would rather Psi-Stalkers having a dodge bonus like the CK does against tech, or the ability to make sdc weapons do mdc against super naturals. The fact that a demon can punch through a tank, but not through the psi-stalkers chest bothers me. Especially when a sdc rifle round will kill the stalker.

[Rimmerdal]

Idiotic was my first, second and third reaction. So what the new rules say is if a demon fires an energy bolt at the psi-stalker he is (at least partially) MDC, but if a thug shoots him with a Wilks lazer pistol wile standing next to said demon the psi-stalker is just a squishy SDC creature? Makes no sense to me.

He does have a point. Many SN use technical weapons or will when they realize...a Psi-Stalker is killed easily by NON-supernatural means. I.E. Guns, throwing him off a cliff, crushing him with a big rock...I could go on..

but the idea is clear. all a Demon has to do is go okay here's my BOOM stick....Zap bye-bye Stalker!

[Daniel Stoker]

He does have a point. Many SN use technical weapons or will when they realize...a Psi-Stalker is killed easily by NON-supernatural means. I.E. Guns, throwing him off a cliff, crushing him with a big rock...I could go on..

but the idea is clear. all a Demon has to do is go okay here's my BOOM stick....Zap bye-bye Stalker!

Yes, but most demons have that critical villian flaw of overconfidence and aren't going to want to rely on some piddly human contraption when they can still rend a the psi-stalker to pieces in a few hits instead of just one.



Daniel Stoker

[Mech-Viper Prime]

a demon with a gun??? since when have demons become punk little teenagers

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

It makes perfect sense.

[Daniel Stoker]

So his skin, fleash and bones just magicly jump back and forth between super hard MDC and soft and squishy SDC even if he does not know the attack is coming? It makes no sense. It destroys the suspension of disbelief. If they had simply been made minor MDC creatures teh whole problem goes away but this half-baked sometimes they are sometimes thier not thing is just stupid.

Maybe instead of thinking of it that way think of it as an aura around the character that is able to deflect Magical/Supernatural based attacks so they only do damage to the character's Hit Points instead of thinking his flesh changing to super hard and super soft.



Daniel Stoker

[Rimmerdal]

He does have a point. Many SN use technical weapons or will when they realize...a Psi-Stalker is killed easily by NON-supernatural means. I.E. Guns, throwing him off a cliff, crushing him with a big rock...I could go on..

but the idea is clear. all a Demon has to do is go okay here's my BOOM stick....Zap bye-bye Stalker!

Yes, but most demons have that critical villian flaw of overconfidence and aren't going to want to rely on some piddly human contraption when they can still rend a the psi-stalker to pieces in a few hits instead of just one.



Daniel Stoker

But a smart Demon or one human sized use then..If I recall Demon Dragon magestart with an energy weapon...

Second Demons are all about survival...Bloodmist and Brok Redman BOTH use technology if they need to and killing Psi-stalkers qualifies.

A good startegist leave no advantage unused...whether a it's magic or "some piddly human contraption". Often using human contraptions is good way to blend in no need to leave traces or clues that magic/Psionics we're used.

[Daniel Stoker]

But a smart Demon or one human sized use then..If I recall Demon Dragon magestart with an energy weapon...

Second Demons are all about survival...Bloodmist and Brok Redman BOTH use technology if they need to and killing Psi-stalkers qualifies.

A good startegist leave no advantage unused...whether a it's magic or "some piddly human contraption". Often using human contraptions is good way to blend in no need to leave traces or clues that magic/Psionics we're used.

Except how many of those are going to feel the need to carry around an MD weapon to take out a Psi-Stalker still? You're assuming that they're ever going to look at a Psi-Stalker as anything more then an annoying little fly. Remember they may be smart, but most Demons still have Ego's the size of Nebraska as well who don't feelt he need to blend in.

Plus it's just the Psi-Stalkers HP's, it's not like he's going to have 100 MDC to have to tear through to still take the 'pest' out.



Daniel Stoker

[Rimmerdal]

But a smart Demon or one human sized use then..If I recall Demon Dragon magestart with an energy weapon...

Second Demons are all about survival...Bloodmist and Brok Redman BOTH use technology if they need to and killing Psi-stalkers qualifies.

A good startegist leave no advantage unused...whether a it's magic or "some piddly human contraption". Often using human contraptions is good way to blend in no need to leave traces or clues that magic/Psionics we're used.

Except how many of those are going to feel the need to carry around an MD weapon to take out a Psi-Stalker still? You're assuming that they're ever going to look at a Psi-Stalker as anything more then an annoying little fly. Remember they may be smart, but most Demons still have Ego's the size of Nebraska as well who don't feelt he need to blend in.



Daniel Stoker

If I we're a demon and learned tech killed my mortal enemy faster? YOU BET I'd by a few Epistols and rifles. Hell I'd have an arsenal of them...

Take advantage of ANY weakness in your foes...Ego or not they have a built in survival instinct.

[Rimmerdal]

Next question: How is it exactly that a psi-stalkers Hit Points can tell the difference between a demon’s MDC punch and a robot’s MDC punch? Can you see why this rule is just not well thought out?

SN's have an aura that is detectable..A Psi-stalker would intsinctively know if it's super natural or not.

BUT again I see a way around..If I we're human sized Demon, I'd use PA...the damage is no longer SN...its Robot damage...

Your right the rule needed more thought...Imagine what an experienced player can com up with...

[Daniel Stoker]

But the point is: How does knowing change anything? It is still a physical blow. What difference does it make if it is a robot fist or a demon fist? What if the demon is wearing a glove? A gauntlet?

Them knowing makes no difference, think of it as an aura that is always up and that only effected by Supernatural and magical creatures attacks. (Or by being near ley lines.)



Daniel Stoker

[ApocalypseZero]

What's the big deal anyways? So the Psi-Stalker has a handful of MD/HP to use to stay alive for a second round against a MDC Creature. You all seem to act as if your PE attributes are above 15 all the time! (And maybe some of you do this. I for one, enjoy crushing the player dream of high rolls, unless done in my sight.) What's the average HP of a Psi-Stalker? 20, 25, 30? Average Punch damage from a MDC Creature? 2D6, 3D6? One or two attacks? I can live with it. Does the whole thing sound like an alteration steming from the Psycho-Stalker? Sure. Is it a game breaker? No. What's next? Gripes about the Nokia Ad?

[Qev]

Well, if Palladium would stop making every single supernatural creature Mega-Damage, capable of farting out Mega-Damage energy blasts, we probably wouldn't get stupid rules like this one.

I mean, for crying out loud, a common faerie is a 1D4x10 MD creature! I'm actually surprised they can't do Mega-Damage in hand to hand...

[Guest]

I have to say, I would have preferred them getting a version of the Cyberknights Zen Combat for SN creatures.

This is Odd...to say the least, but it is kind of like how a Psi-Slinger can turn M.D.C. energy blasts into S.D.C. energy blasts...so it has some precedence....still would have been better as a Zen Combat style, auto-dodge/minuses type thing.

[Rimmer]

??? so if mr big bad demon punches bob the psi stalker and does 1d6md, bob takes 1d6sdc dmg ??? demon goes what happens when said demon picks up bob and smashes him into a big rock ?

[Guest]

??? so if mr big bad demon punches bob the psi stalker and does 1d6md, bob takes 1d6sdc dmg ??? demon goes what happens when said demon picks up bob and smashes him into a big rock ?

No, as I understand it, the 1d6 Md blow wipes out bobs S.D.C..

If there is damage left, he takes it in H.P. 1 for 1.

I'm not sure how it would affect being smashed into a wall or rock...

Wouldn't that be an S.D.C. type attack anyways? If so, it probably does normal damage.

[Rimmerdal]

Next question: How is it exactly that a psi-stalkers Hit Points can tell the difference between a demon’s MDC punch and a robot’s MDC punch? Can you see why this rule is just not well thought out?

SN's have an aura that is detectable..A Psi-stalker would intsinctively know if it's super natural or not.

BUT again I see a way around..If I we're human sized Demon, I'd use PA...the damage is no longer SN...its Robot damage...

Your right the rule needed more thought...Imagine what an experienced player can com up with...

But the point is: How does knowing change anything? It is still a physical blow. What difference does it make if it is a robot fist or a demon fist? What if the demon is wearing a glove? A gauntlet?

It's reactive...So if the PS (Psi-stalker) is aware unconsiously that is super natural. and the field then goes MDC.

the robot fist would still do MDC. if wearing a glove, MDC because its glove/gauntlet hitting him not the SN..

[Rimmerdal]

??? so if mr big bad demon punches bob the psi stalker and does 1d6md, bob takes 1d6sdc dmg ??? demon goes what happens when said demon picks up bob and smashes him into a big rock ?

Rock wins beacuse agin it's the rock doing the damage not the SN.

This "field" seems pretty useless to me...at least in a fist fight...but might use when they get to magic/SN energy.

I believe it means melee damage, but like I said the demon says "Hmmm lets try this railgun....."

But when I get the book I can be more articulate than this.

[Daniel Stoker]

??? so if mr big bad demon punches bob the psi stalker and does 1d6md, bob takes 1d6sdc dmg ??? demon goes what happens when said demon picks up bob and smashes him into a big rock ?

It would probably count as a MD body slam or punch depending on your GM. Either way the Psi-stalker would be missing teeth and be very very sore.... or dead depending.



Daniel Stoker

[Kalinda]

What's the big deal anyways? So the Psi-Stalker has a handful of MD/HP to use to stay alive for a second round against a MDC Creature. You all seem to act as if your PE attributes are above 15 all the time! (And maybe some of you do this. I for one, enjoy crushing the player dream of high rolls, unless done in my sight.) What's the average HP of a Psi-Stalker? 20, 25, 30? Average Punch damage from a MDC Creature? 2D6, 3D6? One or two attacks? I can live with it. Does the whole thing sound like an alteration steming from the Psycho-Stalker? Sure. Is it a game breaker? No. What's next? Gripes about the Nokia Ad?

Well they do roll 4d6 for PE, meaning that their average roll will be 14. with some luck and a few physical skills you could have a 25 PE, but even with good rolls for hit points, this power is hardly overwhelming, it just gives them an edge against their supernatural prey, and a pretty small one at that. So I'm in agreement with Josh, it's no big deal even if it does feel like a slapped together patch to explain why the Psi stalkers are still around.

[Kalinda]

Solution: Hit them once to wipe out their SDC, then restrained punches

Problem with solution: the rule states that their hit points turn into MDC, not that MDC attacks are treated as SDC. that idea was just floated as a way of explaining the effect, it's not how the rule reads at all.

So restrained punches would do exactly as much good against the Psi stalker as they would against the demon.

[Guest]

Oh, I didn't know it said "H.P. BECOMES M.D.C. against SN."

That's a whole other ballgame of stupidity.

They should have made them Anti-SN versions of the Anti-Tech Cyber Knights.

[Kalinda]

Oh, I didn't know it said "H.P. BECOMES M.D.C. against SN."

That's a whole other ballgame of stupidity.

They should have made them Anti-SN versions of the Anti-Tech Cyber Knights.

I agree. It would have been more complicated for KS and crew, but more satisfying for us and better in the long run.

As it is, I see endless arguments looming on the horizon.

[Guest]

Oh, I didn't know it said "H.P. BECOMES M.D.C. against SN."

That's a whole other ballgame of stupidity.

They should have made them Anti-SN versions of the Anti-Tech Cyber Knights.

I agree. It would have been more complicated for KS and crew, but more satisfying for us and better in the long run.

As it is, I see endless arguments looming on the horizon.

Would have been a little more complicated for KS and crew.

Some of the Anti-Tech, Zen Combat abilities would convert over by replacing "Technological" with "Supernatural".

Change "Turret Rotating" or "Energy Cell Charging" too "Demon Attacking" or "Mage Casting".

It would work beautifully, be very satisfying, make Psi-Stalkers wonderful Anti-SN fighters, and even balance out the Anti-Tech CK's somewhat.

As it is, we may as well get Zer0 Kay to start a Thread on the Psi-Stalkers M.D.C. Hit Points.

[Rimmerdal]

Oh, I didn't know it said "H.P. BECOMES M.D.C. against SN."

That's a whole other ballgame of stupidity.

They should have made them Anti-SN versions of the Anti-Tech Cyber Knights.

ahh I can see it now A psi-stalker a .45 and several dead demons...seriously this rule sounds fun..

Okay then how would you make the rule work? I figure it as an aura that blocks super natural damage...like the Psychic body field.

-Blocks damage from Magic, Psionics of SN sdc; SN energy or melee MDC damage into hitpoints/sdc damage.

Limitation:
NOW as I already said and several others expanded on...The SN just needs get grab on the Psi-Stalker smack him into a big rock or drop him off cliff....so it does leave him vunerable to NON-Supernaturals...

so maybe a Psychic bodyshield?

[Borast]

Ok...this is STUPID!!!

I LIKE Psi-Stalkers to be SDC beings... Mind you, I'm not 100% on an MDC setting (although I do like the idea).

This sounds more like Kev and folks pulling an "oops, we didn't take this into account" kinda deal.

If this is the route they wanted to go they should have given 'stalkers the ability to psychically "interrupt" the SN's beasties' connection to the surplus PPE, temporarily reducing it to an SDC creature that the 'stalker (or anyone in an IMMEDIATE vicinity) could harm with SDC weapons! It would better match with the 'stalker's instincts and preference for edged weapons! Kinda like having 10 mosquitoes attack and cause near fatal damage to a human in a matter of seconds.

[Nxla666]

Wow, yet more griping about the update, I have the book and I have started reading it but haven't checked out the character classes yet.

Lets see Psi-stalkers now have a natural defense against the very things they hunt, and this seems odd because...

I agree its a little late in coming but still does it MATTER, no if you don't like the rule DON'T USE IT!

[Rimmerdal]

Wow, yet more griping about the update, I have the book and I have started reading it but haven't checked out the character classes yet.

Lets see Psi-stalkers now have a natural defense against the very things they hunt, and this seems odd because...

I agree its a little late in coming but still does it MATTER, no if you don't like the rule DON'T USE IT!

You know us 'free-thinkers'...and if didn't gripe about Psi-Stalker we would gripe about something else.

But I like the idea of resistance to those they hunt..Was it the Nega-Psychic or Psi-Nullifier that had a general immunity to magic? think they'll get a similiar defense?

[Nxla666]

Nullifier I think not 100% sure though.

As for free-thinking, not a problem, endless complaints from certain posters is. I am here to express BOTH my pleased state about the new book as well as my displeasure at some of its "HUH" rules (one MDC now stops a bazillion IF its your last), some only post "negative" comments and have actually said very little to nothing positive about it.

If they bought the book to gripe about its bad points, well then I wish I had that kind of money to throw around on something I wont play.

[Jesterzzn]

I don't know what the big deal is. Instead of taking one stomp to smash the bug, it takes two or three. Its still a bug.

[Guest]

I don't know what the big deal is. Instead of taking one stomp to smash the bug, it takes two or three. Its still a bug.

Because it's silly, and could have been much better.

Like, Anti-SN Zen Combat...

[Jesterzzn]

I don't know what the big deal is. Instead of taking one stomp to smash the bug, it takes two or three. Its still a bug.

Because it's silly, and could have been much better.

Like, Anti-SN Zen Combat...

Yea, I forget how universally loved Zen combat is.

[Guest]

I don't know what the big deal is. Instead of taking one stomp to smash the bug, it takes two or three. Its still a bug.

Because it's silly, and could have been much better.

Like, Anti-SN Zen Combat...

Yea, I forget how universally loved Zen combat is.

It is very cool, but it is odd to have the Cyber-Knights be so Anti-Tech.

If there was an Anti-SN version, for another old school RMB class...it would make sense.

They tried to make Psi-Stalkers better able to fight with their prey...

They failed, and only made a more confusing situation of it...Anti-SN Zen combat would have worked well, and provided a nice bit of balance from the SoT4 CK's.

[Rimmerdal]

Nullifier I think not 100% sure though.

As for free-thinking, not a problem, endless complaints from certain posters is. I am here to express BOTH my pleased state about the new book as well as my displeasure at some of its "HUH" rules (one MDC now stops a bazillion IF its your last), some only post "negative" comments and have actually said very little to nothing positive about it.

If they bought the book to gripe about its bad points, well then I wish I had that kind of money to throw around on something I wont play.

It would seem the good stuff is still being elusive...

I do like a few things I hear. The new OCC approach to secondary skills, as well a more orginized read..I love that when I can buy a copy..

It's a little mage heavy in the OCC list, but people like mages so that's good. I can't wait to see list of updated Psychic classes (Psi-tech and warrior in paticular.)

[Killer Cyborg]

it only makes sense... I mean they hunt SUPERNATURAL creatures that are MDC and deal MDC damage... If they were SDC, they wouldn't last too long as a "wild" race.

Not true.
There are dozens of ways for SDC creatures to survive against MDC foes... people just don't want to spend the time thinking of them; they'd rather just have super powerful characters.

[Killer Cyborg]

a demon with a gun??? since when have demons become punk little teenagers

You've never read up on Brodkil or Gargoyles, have you...?

[Daniel Stoker]

a demon with a gun??? since when have demons become punk little teenagers

You've never read up on Brodkil or Gargoyles, have you...?

Good thing they're sub-demons.



Daniel Stoker

[Mech-Viper Prime]

a demon with a gun??? since when have demons become punk little teenagers

You've never read up on Brodkil or Gargoyles, have you...?

Good thing they're sub-demons.



Daniel Stoker

yup

[Nxla666]

Demon, sub-demon who cares call 'em what they are, TARGETS!

[TechnoGothic]

dispite my own "little" nit-picks so far with R:UE, i have to say i give it 5 Stars out of 5 stars overall.

Its not like a Half-dozen or more d2o Books i have bought, and they put up errata for just about everything in the book. Like when i bought the D&D Psionic Handbook 1st Printing 3.0...Just about Every psionic power was wrong in some fashion. Sure they posted a errata for us for free. But dang it why didnt they just post the whole book for free for us to begin with huh...it was a ripp off plan and simple. One reason why i wont run/play d2o...its just poor a** quality workmanship...

RIFTS, dispite minor flaws here and there is Quality work.
Nuff Said...

[TechnoGothic]

Ok, one thing i Like :

DRAGONS have MDC Listed and SDC listed...

So if you perfer a SDC setting its much easier now to use Main Book dragons without grabing another book ( PBF-D&G )....