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Rifts Ultimate Edition page 346 wrote:A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

finn69 wrote:if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

finn69 wrote:if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

RMB wrote:If the result is a four or less (counting bonuses), then the attacker misses.

grandmaster z0b wrote:

finn69 wrote:if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

Where does it say that? My fourth printing says

RMB wrote:If the result is a four or less (counting bonuses), then the attacker misses.

finn69 wrote:if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

Marrowlight wrote:Ditto, 1-4 not being an auto-miss was one of the first house rules my group used...and that was back in 92/93.

Rifts Ultimate page 361 wrote:All ranged attacks: Requires a roll of 8 to strike (including WP and Sniping bonuses)

AdeptPaladin wrote:p40 (A roll of 1, 2, 3, or 4 is an automatic miss.).. makes no mention of bonuses, unfortunately.



However, I've always played rolling 1 as a 'critical failure'..

grandmaster z0b wrote:Is this new to Rifts?

Rifts Ultimate Edition page 346 wrote:A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

Dead Boy wrote:

grandmaster z0b wrote:Is this new to Rifts?

Rifts Ultimate Edition page 346 wrote:A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

Hu... That is new! Not even my 7th pringing of the Rifts Main Book or 1st printing of the RGMG says that. Interesting.

What's even more interesting is that it does NOT say the same thing under the Ranged Combat section even though it does denoted the critical hit off a Natural 20. Could it be that this is only related to hand to hand melee?

Solothurn wrote:How about 1-4 as a progressive series of effects. 4 just a miss, 3 a miss with a perctentage of another effect(insert here), 2 hits something along the similar line of sight with a percentage of hitting an innocent bystander or one of your own team mates(insert percentage here), and 1 you accidently hit/shot yourself.

Mack wrote:

Solothurn wrote:How about 1-4 as a progressive series of effects. 4 just a miss, 3 a miss with a perctentage of another effect(insert here), 2 hits something along the similar line of sight with a percentage of hitting an innocent bystander or one of your own team mates(insert percentage here), and 1 you accidently hit/shot yourself.

That means that every 20 times a trained soldier pulls the trigger, he hits himself once. A bit extreme, don't you think?

Zayin wrote:

grandmaster z0b wrote:Is this new to Rifts?

Rifts Ultimate Edition page 346 wrote:A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

I've noticed many of my house rules have become "canonized" in R:UE.

Takilong wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Guess they were tired of those players who can never miss because there first level bonus to strike with "modern" weapons is over 5. I think a called should miss if it's not above a natural 10.

We have a guy in our game who has a +11 at first level... he did have a +12 but then he switched from a SAMAS: Sidewinder to a Tech Warrior. From what I recall all to strike bonuses didn't count toward weapons unless it specifically said so. However he says that the to strike in PA combat counts toward it, and it is supported in the example of modern combat where it states where the combatant is getting the bonuses from. A question the Elite PA combat listed with the PA is that in addition to that found in the RMB or the R:UE or does it replace them?

actualy the book say you need a roll of 12 or better to hit on a called shot

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Takilong wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Guess they were tired of those players who can never miss because there first level bonus to strike with "modern" weapons is over 5. I think a called should miss if it's not above a natural 10.

We have a guy in our game who has a +11 at first level... he did have a +12 but then he switched from a SAMAS: Sidewinder to a Tech Warrior. From what I recall all to strike bonuses didn't count toward weapons unless it specifically said so. However he says that the to strike in PA combat counts toward it, and it is supported in the example of modern combat where it states where the combatant is getting the bonuses from. A question the Elite PA combat listed with the PA is that in addition to that found in the RMB or the R:UE or does it replace them?

actualy the book say you need a roll of 12 or better to hit on a called shot

Not quite. What it says is to hit the specific target, you need a 12 or better, failure meaning if you still roll a normal successful hit, you hit the main body, unless the target is moving, in which case you need a 12 or better to hit at all.

finn69 wrote:if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

Solothurn wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Takilong wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Guess they were tired of those players who can never miss because there first level bonus to strike with "modern" weapons is over 5. I think a called should miss if it's not above a natural 10.

We have a guy in our game who has a +11 at first level... he did have a +12 but then he switched from a SAMAS: Sidewinder to a Tech Warrior. From what I recall all to strike bonuses didn't count toward weapons unless it specifically said so. However he says that the to strike in PA combat counts toward it, and it is supported in the example of modern combat where it states where the combatant is getting the bonuses from. A question the Elite PA combat listed with the PA is that in addition to that found in the RMB or the R:UE or does it replace them?

actualy the book say you need a roll of 12 or better to hit on a called shot

Not quite. What it says is to hit the specific target, you need a 12 or better, failure meaning if you still roll a normal successful hit, you hit the main body, unless the target is moving, in which case you need a 12 or better to hit at all.

Actually there is no set standard minimum for a called shot in its description. The minimum of 12 is more a "called shot attribute modifier" in the specific description for whatever it is you are shooting at that would be elsewhere in the books, which just happens to use minimum of 12 alot. If you go to page 361 of UR, second coloumn under Quick References and then under Called Shot, there is no preset standard of minimum of 12. It just says "takes three attacks; possible penalties for small targets". Which is more a generalization which then would imply that its possible that there could be different minimums other than 12. The other more comprehensive definition in the first column states the same thing.

For a more realistic situation lets say the target is moving, it is -1 strike plus -1 to strike per 50 mph beyond 20, and another -1 on top of all that if the target declares using evasive action.

So for an aimed(+2) called shot(no bonuses) of a target that is moving from 1mph up to 20mph(-1), and is evasive(-1) you have to roll....... a mimumum of 5 or more, +2(aimed)-1(1-20mph and not going faster than that)-1(evasiveness) would = 5 or more to hit the target using a Aimed Called Shot. BUT, if there is a modifier in the hit by location list, in which, usually comes with a *, then you would have to start at the minimum to strike, which happens to be minimum of natural 12. Then you go by all the other modifiers. Oh ya it would take 3 attacks to do it. 2attacks for a non-aimed called shot.

The mimimum of 12 is just an extra mod based on the description of the target, not the rule.

RevRifts wrote:Where does Rue only say a 1 is a miss?

RevRifts wrote:On pg. 339 last sentence column 2. "A roll of 1-4 is always a miss; that's true in both hand to hand and long-range combat."

I don't think this is a bad rule and have been playing 1-4 is a miss since '90.
One day I put on some boxing gloves and realized 1-4 as a miss is quite realistic. You'd be surprised how many times a blow you thought you'd land easily ends up just short. That's my real-life experience in melee combat, and seeing as how my only experience in missile combat is paintball I can't really say how realistic it is for long-range attacks (Paintballs miss on a 1-15 ).
I think I'll stick with 1-4 as a miss, it keeps both the important NPCs and the PCs alive more often.

demos606 wrote:"Critical misses" are at least as old as Oct 2004 when both Splicers and BtS2 came out with them. I suspect the latest printing of the GMG has it as well. Besides, iirc, this has been in PF forever so it's not exactly new ground for Palladium.

finn69 wrote:if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

MaddogMatarese wrote:Last time I checked a natural die roll of 1 to 4 was an automatic miss on ranged weapons, and a natural die roll of 1 to 4 on hand to hand attacks misses only if whatever bonuses you may have didn't add up to 5 or higher. Someone's getting the combat rules mixed up, I think.

AdeptPaladin wrote:13th Printing, 2000


p35 (A roll of less then 4 [counting bonuses] always misses..)..

p40 (A roll of 1, 2, 3, or 4 is an automatic miss.).. makes no mention of bonuses, unfortunately.



However, I've always played rolling 1 as a 'critical failure'..

el magico -- darklorddc wrote:

grandmaster z0b wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:

grandmaster z0b wrote:Is this new to Rifts?

Rifts Ultimate Edition page 346 wrote:A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

Hu... That is new! Not even my 7th pringing of the Rifts Main Book or 1st printing of the RGMG says that. Interesting.

What's even more interesting is that it does NOT say the same thing under the Ranged Combat section even though it does denoted the critical hit off a Natural 20. Could it be that this is only related to hand to hand melee?

Well as the new number to hit with ranged weaponry is 8, I don't think a roll of 1 would ever hit anyway, who's going to have +7?

A GB pilot with the appropriate skills can get up to....a +10 at first level with the boom gun on an aimed shot I believe if you do it right but I can't remember how.

Solothurn wrote:For a more realistic situation lets say the target is moving, it is -1 strike plus -1 to strike per 50 mph beyond 20, and another -1 on top of all that if the target declares using evasive action.

MaddogMatarese wrote:

Solothurn wrote:For a more realistic situation lets say the target is moving, it is -1 strike plus -1 to strike per 50 mph beyond 20, and another -1 on top of all that if the target declares using evasive action.

Actually hitting a moving target is -3, and one moving at 40mph or more is -6. Of course this is with conventional weapons, I'm not sure if that rule applies to energy weapons.

grandmaster z0b wrote:

MaddogMatarese wrote:Last time I checked a natural die roll of 1 to 4 was an automatic miss on ranged weapons, and a natural die roll of 1 to 4 on hand to hand attacks misses only if whatever bonuses you may have didn't add up to 5 or higher. Someone's getting the combat rules mixed up, I think.

I think your getting your combat rules mixed up. The original rules state quite clearly that a roll of 1-4 (including bonuses) is a miss, whether it's a ranged or hand2hand attack. This is the way it has always been.

RUE changes that so that a ranged attack needs an 8 or better and a 1 will always miss no matter what the bonus. Honestly I'm surpirsed the amount of people who have been playing a natural 1-4 always misses and thought it was canon.