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Has anyone built any Pre-Rift US tanks or IFVs?

I know that the IHA tanks are based on pre-rifts designs, but I always assumed they were the older second line stuff. There is also the light amphibious tank used by the New Navy.

I am thinking about using the Triax Phantom and the Russian hover tanks as a basis for US pre-rifts desgns. Has anybody done similar?

For things like tanks and apcs there really isn't much to choose from. The GAW stuff is so outdated it isn't even funny. Even the stuff in Mercs is Abrams and Bradleys.

Right now I'm looking to build a Merc unit using only Pre-Rifts US equipment. So far I'm limited to the NEMA stuff in Chaos Earth, and the New Navy equipment. There are a few additions like the USA Samas from Spirit West, but that is about it.

RockJock wrote:Has anyone built any Pre-Rift US tanks or IFVs?

I know that the IHA tanks are based on pre-rifts designs, but I always assumed they were the older second line stuff. There is also the light amphibious tank used by the New Navy.

I am thinking about using the Triax Phantom and the Russian hover tanks as a basis for US pre-rifts desgns. Has anybody done similar?

Taking the IHA Iron Hammer as a basis I would start by using a nuke power source, and then perhaps increased armor protection. I'd also add several smaller self-defense automated systems (grenade launchers, light laser weapons, etc). The rail guns would be replaced with the CE SAMAS model's. Perhaps replace the medium range missiles with a short range missile system.
But the biggest thing I think would be in the electronics. Really good targeting system, scrambled radio, ECM systems, etc.

Do a similiar upgrade to the Iron Maiden as well.

A hovercraft/tank would be ideal for the Marine's as well as a nice suppliment for a SAMAS unit. You might want to base the design off of the Linebacker CS hovertank. I'll try to think of something tonight though when I get home from work.

Now you also might want to take a close look at some of those robot weapons systems in Spirit West, as those are based off of "golden age" stuff.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't have any books with me, but I was thinking a ground tank with say 700 mdc a top speed around 60 mph, and a crew of three.

For weapons the Boom Gun, or perhaps a heavier rail gun/gauss rifle with similar damage and range. Wth the main gun a coaxial Plasma Cannon like the Incinerator, but without the missile launcher also controlled by the gunner. A heavy grenade launcher like the WI-GL20 controlled by the commander from inside the turrent, or manually. To top it off some sort of computer controlled anti missle gun. I'm leaning toward an energy weapon, perhaps a dual mount Crim Stopper Ion Pistol slaved to the brain of a Combat Hound.

Instead of a standard missile launcher some sort of swapable backpack system of modular missile launchers.

The idea of top end sensors and electronics is a good one. Definately good bonuses to hit, all the available optics, things like that. I am also thinking about one or two Flying Probes being slaved into the tank as roving sensors for scouting. I know they are slow, but would provide eyes and ears when the tank was still, and good for recon.

To set the design apart from post rifts technology maybe laser resistant armor that takes 50% from lasers.

Those stats aren't too far off from the Iron Hammer now so I can see the adjustments as reasonable (650 MDC, 60 mph for the 'Hammer). The 'Hammer's 200mm cannon can do some good damage with a APDS or HEAT round. I think all would be needed is to enhance the velocity of the main gun to increase the damage a bit more and should be ok on damage.
Then add a autoloader, the 'Hammer can only fire its main gun twice per melee round IIRC. With a autoloader I'd at least double that.

Secondary weapons sound good. So does the use of the Flying Probe's.

I'm not sure about the laser resistant armor though, since there wasn't a whole lot of pre-rifts mdc technology out there to begin with. A few samples/experimental units I can see.

It doesn't have to be laser resistant. Maybe reactive to defeat missles. Give the tank a roll with punch type defense to missle warheads. I want something like this to make the until stand out. Like the bot from SA with the disco ball of seisures. Not m favorite execution, but I like the idea.


A frontline Pre-Rifts US tank should be better all around the the IHA designs, but not by huge leaps. I'm using the difference in gear between the old CS stuff and the Chaos Earth NEMA equipment as a rough guideline.

I had already thought of the auto loader to replace a crewman.

Any other ideas?

Next we can sketch out an APC, Helo, and perhaps a hover line.

Can't think of anything else right off hand for the tank. I agree it needs a defense other than a ECM or a small AMS. Now that I thought a little more about it the laser-resistant idea would be simple enough to use on paper. But I do like the idea of the reactive armor as well.

I'm thinking about the reactive armor. It hasn't been done in the game before, and doesn't seem like it would that hard to work out.

As for other designs the New Navy already has a light hovertank APC and a light tank design. That leaves a tracked APC/IFV, A helo, and the hovers.
I'm transport should follow along similar lines, and shouldn't be too difficult. I'll keep it as a squad vehicle, and maybe do a scout/heavy weapons version like with the Bradley. Maybe a ducted fan transport similar to the FQ GB Transport and a gunship version. The navy would still be using the more proven standard helicoptor. For the hover tanks and APC I'm thinking a common design for both. One with a heavy turret and one with the infantry bay.

Beatleguise wrote:I think a Merc Unit using Nema tech would be cool.

Been there... done that. Ok tried to the GM was completely against it without massive amounts of research. We were a bunch of NEMA scientists. I was supposed to be a weapons developer and production specialist but for some reason didn't know how they used nanites to do that. Oh well the game ended recently and we succeded in hiring a bunch of untrustworthy people from merctown to populate our "secret" NEMA base. Yeah how long is that going to stay secret now? The research was going to go by the Triax Research from one of the Rifters. Not a bad concept but my character is/was a Tinker Gadgeteer from N&S.

Beatleguise wrote:Well, I have always thought the Goldenage Tech was suppose be the Pre-Rifts convertions. I do not mess with it much though, so cant say for certain.

If you think GAW stuff is actually Golden Age (i.e. Rifts CE) then I want to know where our GB's are IRL.

For the computer controlled laser I am going to go with the laser MG used on the New Navy vehicles.

For EBA I am thinking of the standard NEMA armor and a light flight suit for pilots and crews.

Merc Ops has a few pre-rifts flight suits from GAW, plus another rifle used by National Guard troops. Basically a SDC ballistic rifle combined with a MD laser. Plus a host of other stuff in general if you haven't seen it yet.

Hey on the aero vehicles, Morgankeyes did a couple of pretty darn good designs a while back for the CS. I'll see if I can't find them for you to take a look over.

lets not forget the M48 Patton tanks the military hide in sercet bunkers

Thanks for the help Dustin. I have both the new Merc Books. The GAW stuff seems like it would be more national guard issue as you said. Similar to the MDC Flak Vest in CE. They still go well as available weapons, along with the SDC NEMA and New Navy weapons.


As for the M48 in armored bunkers, I thought those were called VFW Posts:)

As far as New Navy equipment and Occs, there are a few problems. First off they are Navy/Marine equipment and classes not Army. There will be differences in both. For instance the Marines use Ion weapons over lasers, which leads me to believe most others use lasers. Some of the NEMA classes seem a better base for Army Occs. The New Navy tank is light and amphibious, something the Army wouldn't look for. Their EBA and small arms are also geared toward Amphib opereations. All that being said the New Navy is a good starting point.

I was talking more like an army tank division having Marine 113s. The Navy has always provided corpmen for the marines, and you are totally right about FACs and Navy gunnery spotters being attached to frontline Army or Marine units. The same with shared based. I recently visited a friend at the Monterey Presidio which has all brances plus students from other countries so the cross pollination is quite possible, it just wouldn't be the rule.

Basically my point is the Army would have less use for a light amphibious tank, or a weapon built to be effective underwater then the Navy/Marine Corp would.

That is what I have been doing. If you use the New Navy equipment as the low in of what frontline Army or Airforce units would have it seems to work well.

When I get some free time I'll try to sketch out a few more units, or maybe the small arms and body armor situation.

Geronimo 2.0 wrote:I would think that a Mercenery group who were real pros would have some nice corporate resources to pick from. NEMA should be envious of them! They should have some stuff that your average NEMA civil servant would just drool over.

yeah, mercs with corporate links normally have some neater stuff

I don't see Pre-Rifts Mercs having major corporate connection. In the PA calandar sure.

It is hard to compare a police force, even a homeland security force like NEMA with the frontline military directly. It is also hard to say that the police have better equipment then the army. The average cop has a 9mm, 10mm, or .40 cal pistol, light body armor, and a shotgun, or light rifle in the car. The average infantry soldier has a M-16, but could also have a M-4, SAW, M-203, or 9mm pistol along with body armor. SWAT teams have some great toys, but they aren't the average cops. Even if NEMA was the equal of SWAT the bulk of the military wouldn't be far behind, and the elite would be equally or better equipped.

They have such different priorities for equipment and training. That being said, there is still a huge amount of carry over from one to the other.

The problem is as it is written the body armor and weapons of the New Navy ARE pre-Rifts, not modern upgrades. Look at the IFV used by the New Navy. Much smaller then the NEMA version, but with compariable equipment, and improved speed.

Back to the Mercs, Exxon-Mobil or BP has corporate security forces, many of which are ex military or law enforcement. They work as consultants and body guards in the middle east, but also throughout South America and even Mexico. They don't have their own armies. There was even a time where they might have had a small team of operators for rescue missions and such, but I just don't see them having better equipment then their military equals.

We just have different views on the world.

I use tanks from HUII souped-up by a Hardware specialist, and then mass-produce those puppies for Chaos Earth.

A higher speed for tanks is fine. I would probably limit it to say 70mph max. I would like things like the GB to be slightly faster and much more nimble then a MBT. That is why I went with 55-60 as a target.

NEMA equipment should be more adaptable if not more versatile then the standard military equipment list.

RockJock wrote:Right now I'm looking to build a Merc unit using only Pre-Rifts US equipment. So far I'm limited to the NEMA stuff in Chaos Earth, and the New Navy equipment. There are a few additions like the USA Samas from Spirit West, but that is about it.

Dont forget the body armor, laser pistol, and laser rifle from the Rifts Index adventures. They suck, but they are American in nature.

I actually don't have the Index, what sort of equipment is in it?