animal vs human

[shiiv-a]

Could someone tell me why a PC character gets penalized for having a human looking mutation act instinctively like their animal?

I have a char, that is a mutated mountain lion, and while i enjoy the challenge of trying to think like a cat first and human later .. everyone else seems to assume that since their animal now is humanoid .. it also thinks and acts human.

I don't have a copy of it anymore, but i had a wonderful 2 hour session in a game with my char's actions taking place via IM. and sadly got into all sorts of problems with .. oh .. a garden hose .. and other "common" things everyone takes for granted. I had a blast, had the GM in stitches the whole night and laughing in the main room from time to time.

I had the impression that IF your a "wild animal" .. raised in the wild, and then semi 'humanized' with a mentor, you would still retain some of the natural instincts of the stock you came from.

please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gomen_Nagai]

after the bomb 2nd edition goes into this and introduces the Vestigial Traits that make people return to normal animal behavior.

[Gazirra]

I was this GM, and this character was a blast to GM! Have Shiiv tell you about the air elemental

[gordyzx9r]

Personally I don't like mutant animals having to wrestle between their respective animal instincts and human sentience, so I treat mutant animals as if they have human understanding, intelligence, and so forth...just not the looks. I do use the vestigial traits, but I don't think they're as restrictive as some people would believe.

[Natalya]

It depends on the backstory I created. Obviously a lab experiment gone right and raised as a family member is going to be acting more human than a random, born-in-the-wild mutant.

The XP charts are also not as restrictive as one might think. A mutant wolf who spends the night carrying babies to a makeshift den should get the same XP as a human character who comes up with an elaborate plan to keep the nursery building safe in the first place. Both are a clever idea, both are a critical plan that saves many people, both are good judgment, and both are playing in character.

[acreRake]

I'd like to see more of what shiiv-a is talking about, personally. I try to play it like that, for the most part. But like Natalya said it all depends on the background.

In fact i'm reminded of a game that had...i think 4 mutant animals in it (i GM HU): two team-character birds that grew up on the fringes of human society, a completely feral wolf, and a wolf or dog that was a trained martial artist (NSS style).

The birds were hilarious because all they cared about were dumb bird things (and their friends, which is why they were there at all). Meanwhile the wolf was genuinely trying to understand what was going on and was often just at a loss. Unfortunately, his instincts dictated a lot of violent reactions to fear. He was a deep, interesting character...scary too.

The martial artist was almost completely human-acting. He relied heavily on his "Chi Relaxation" technique, and due to his Temple skills was deeply philosophical. Just to be able to understand his religion, he had to know a huge amount about human thought, emotion and history.

When i play NPC mutant animals i try to do the same thing. A group of tiny (stupid) mutant mice living under a farmhouse may have a society, but it's not likely to make much sense to a human.

[shiiv-a]

K'gar - the char in question had been left behind and told 'watch the house'

being the 'big cat' type .. she wandered about the yard and discovered a green snake that had a strange hear .. and then followed it back to see the tail .. since it didn't move .. and discovered that the 'snake' was attached to the house. concerned .. she tried to get the snake to let go, and turned the hose on .. and then the snake turned out to be the 'spitting kind' and splashed her

moving about the house .. she discovered that more of these snakes were spitting at her and finally moved inside to check it out .. and while there .. explored the various doors in the place. opened the cleaning closet, only to be attacked by strange trees and a giant snake .. the dreaded housesnake.
[brooms and mops .. and the vacuum ..] she fled into the house owner's lair at that point and waited after she got loose.

-as i said .. a big cat trying to think like a human at times, but a cat first-

air elemental-
this one involved k'gar as she was prowling about the gardens .. and heard something in the trees above her .. it moved like a person, but had little to no scent .. but when it was above her .. it dropped a pebble on her head, she reacted by leaping into the air and slashing at the thing in the tree.
killed a bunch of leaves, some small branches, and a body hit the ground .. then she went hostile, trying to find the thing she couldn't see and it must have been humorous to watch her fight nothing as she clawed the air and the ground trying to find the thing .. but .. it being air, vanished into the air and left the area .. she was not amused ..

anyways .. that was her .. and sadly everyone that plays a mutated animal assumes that they will know everything human, and thinks k'gar is a simpleton or really stupid .. she's not .. she knows how her friends are, and barely can contain herself when she wants to play 'pounce the mouse' .. the others just don't understand the game ... *sigh*

[Snowtiger]

I had the impression that IF your a "wild animal" .. raised in the wild, and then semi 'humanized' with a mentor, you would still retain some of the natural instincts of the stock you came from.

I agree, but there's no official ruling on that, you could simply roleplay things like getting anxious among a large number of unknown people and other stuff.

Of course, there are vestigial traits like, Reptile Brain: Predator and Reptile Brain: Prey, which make up for what's lost(predators tend to get edgy when anxious or frightened, so this guy is obviously not the best example of etiquette, because he can be rude, even aggressive in some occasions, no matter how well he is schooled and educated, while a prey animal could get anxious and perhaps retreat into a nice quiet place at the fringes of the party, so he can keep the crowd effect at a minimum, while still trying to make friends). I think we even have both types of characters in human society.

Generally, it boils down to the background of the character and your concept of the him/her, as well as the animal type of the character.

[Natalya]

What type of background did this cat have? Was he born in the wild and met up with humankind/other sentient creatures yesterday, or a year ago, or was he raised as a housepet in a family, or something else? Having sentience, it wouldn't take long for a mutant animal to catch on to something fairly common.

Even with strong instincts due to a wild background, sentience means that it won't take long to pick up on stuff. And sentience means that instincts can be ignored. For example, a mutant cat raised feral, then brought into society a few months ago would probably go "Hey, there's a green thing out there. Wonder if it's fun to bat at?" Stalk, stalk, stalk, "Oh I can't....gotta watch the house....bummer."

A wild-raised animal will have stronger and harder to ignore instincts, but will quickly pick up on society and has the ability to consciously ignore those instincts.

[shiiv-a]

K'gar was born in the wilds .. was about the age of a 14 yearold girl .. and finally got a mentor who tried hard to get past some of the more stronger instincts .. but they didn't have modern conviences as he lived in the middle of nowhere in the wilds in a small log cabin with astone fireplace. he got thru to her after about a year, so her 'human' contact is only about a year in total and still reacts as a cat first .. which sadly annoys most of the other players because they can't relate to it

*shrugs* well thats the background
these are the stats and how they are as they are ..

Stats - Base + Bonus + Cat + Animal Ability + Feral Program + Physical Skills total

IQ 15 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 = 15 - no bonus

ME 11 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 = 11 - no bonus

MA 13 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 = 13 - no bonus

PS 17 + 01 + 01 + 06 + 00 + 11 = 36 - +21 to damage / C - 1800 / L - 3600

PP 16 + 02 + 03 +08 + 00 + 08 = 37 - +8 str/par/dod / +1 initiative

PE 16 + 02 + 02 + 00 + 00 + 04 = 24 - +18% coma/death / +5 poison/magic

PB 13 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 + 00 = 13 - no bonus

Spd 17 + 04 + 02 + 00 + 16 + 16 = 55 - run 110 yards a minute

as i said .. legal, but is in much contention due to how she is .. and played out .. wont post the skills or i'll have more people yelling at me .. *sighs and shaes the head*

[gordyzx9r]

If that's what your into then, cool. Somone playing in character like that would have disrupted my players too much, who like me, preferred that their mutant animal characters only similiar traits to their animal type was appearance. Remembering all my groups, they would have become annoyed by focusing that much attention on a character exploring the house and the gardens.

I remember I had a player once who thought it would be funny to make a character who took nothing but domestic type skills (cooking, dance, musical instruments, etc)...not a single combat, combat related, or physical skill. It didn't work out, so I can't imagine that something like K'Gar would have gone over very well either.

[Kalinda]

If that's what your into then, cool. Somone playing in character like that would have disrupted my players too much, who like me, preferred that their mutant animal characters only similiar traits to their animal type was appearance. Remembering all my groups, they would have become annoyed by focusing that much attention on a character exploring the house and the gardens.

I remember I had a player once who thought it would be funny to make a character who took nothing but domestic type skills (cooking, dance, musical instruments, etc)...not a single combat, combat related, or physical skill. It didn't work out, so I can't imagine that something like K'Gar would have gone over very well either.

See, I'm of two minds about this kind of thing, on the one hand I can see the point of not wanting to spend a bunch of time on one character,(although my group won't mind as long as it's funny.) On the other hand, if you don't want to play ANY aspect of the animal but the appearance, then whats the point? play humans.

I'm not saying that everyone has to run around chasing garden hoses, just that sometimes mutant animals should react to things differently then humans would.

[shiiv-a]

well .. to each their own in reguards to how they actually play.

thank you kalindra for supporting my concept and for understanding about the idea. in fact, thank you to all of you that had an opinion to give, be it pro or con.

makes me content to not have to worry about it now.

[Gomen_Nagai]

in the world of ATB 2nd edition, Acting like a dog while being a mutant dog is just a vestigial trait, which is covered.. A Duck who can't float won't want to be taking Swiming skill might develop an aquaphobia...
.. but apparently you people don't want to go so far as to go purchase a vestidgial trait... to do something that is covered by vestidgial traits.

[Kalinda]

in the world of ATB 2nd edition, Acting like a dog while being a mutant dog is just a vestigial trait, which is covered.. A Duck who can't float won't want to be taking Swiming skill might develop an aquaphobia...
.. but apparently you people don't want to go so far as to go purchase a vestidgial trait... to do something that is covered by vestidgial traits.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm mainly thinking about the fact that the character would see the world through a different 'filter' then a human. A mutant animal would have small habits and odd ways of looking at things that could either be played for humor or pathos.

To illustrate, some links from my favorite web comic, Freefall

For a human, a meal is made more appetizing by proper presentation. For a wolf, the meal may have to have other attributes

Being polite can be hazardous to your status

Although that same instinct can provide entertainment

etiquette and manners

When injured, some characters will have different priorities then others.

And while recovering

Memory might work a bit differently as well.

Never get between a wolf and it's food

We've all done this before, right?

Again the importance of the sense of smell

Stalking instincts rechanneled

other instincts rechanneled.

one of the benefits of being a wolf in space.

Sense of smell redux

be very quiet, I'm hunting restaurants

eating out requires some planning

as does drinking in public.

As you can see, nothing major or debilitating, just details to establish that the character isn't human.

[Gomen_Nagai]

yeah.. it does seem Like that poor wolf girl is suffering from vestidgial traits... in particular, the predator brain, Dominance, traits.

[Snowtiger]

That's just a sweet way to point the difference of humans and mutant animals, I could also see this happening:

*A human character is trying to sneak behind a sleeping mutant wolf character, to scare him out of his wits*

Wolf(eyes fluttering open, turns to look at the human): Don't bother trying to do that.
Human: Why?
Wolf: I could both smell you and hear you coming before you even came in.
Human: I thought you were sleeping.
Wolf: Nope, just resting my eyes, you know that sleeping comes after a hefty meal, and I'm not hungry at the moment.

[Kalinda]

yeah.. it does seem Like that poor wolf girl is suffering from vestidgial traits... in particular, the predator brain, Dominance, traits.

It's important to keep in mind that I picked 19 strips out of an archive of nearly 1200. most of the time Florence acts pretty much human, with only occasional lapses into instinct. Personally I wouldn't say that the character has vestigial traits because she's able to control herself and keep her instincts from adversely affecting her social interactions.