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its been a long time since i've played rifts. but this is one of many things thats bothered me. if the boom gun is a rail gun, meaning that it uses electromagnetic force to force the slugs/flechettes down range. why does it make a "boom" . ill find my old book and read up on it in depth again, but i wanna be lazy and ask the rift-heads for an explaination. is this more a game concept or something based in reality?

The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

^^^^ lol

Even rifle bullets make a boom... that's part of the crack you hear when you fire. The difference is that, instead of something the size of a fat crayon, you're shooting something the size of a Chunky Soup can (or a bit larger), and moving it to several times the speed of sound; that's going to cause a more significant boom, though it will be limited compared to a jet.

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

read up and learn.

sigh, next you'll be asking why it has recoil if it doesn't use an explosive propellant.

C.R.A.F.T. wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propelled by a controlled chemical explosion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

read up and learn.

sigh, next you'll be asking why it has recoil if it doesn't use an explosive propellant.

No, but I've been wondering if it uses flechette rounds or just a bundle of slugs.

good question, actually. from the illustration, looks to be half/half. the bundles of slugs are just rods, sort of an unaerodynamic flechette round. when the sabot falls away (actually BURNS away, at those speeds it'll turn to plasma), the rodss would start to scatter a bit. not much though, at the speed it travels, and at the ranges it's listed as having, you'd still get a grouping of only a couple of inches.

think of it as a high speed, long range, point blank shotgunning.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

read up and learn.

sigh, next you'll be asking why it has recoil if it doesn't use an explosive propellant.

while your "tone" isnt at all needed or warranted. recoil is not my question. the "deafening boom" is my issue.

maybe you need to read and learn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gun

and heres a current man-portable weapon that achieves closer muzzle velocities in OUR age. why would the boom gun "BOOM".
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,1 ... 9,,00.html

mach 5 is what around a mile a second? 5000 ft a second? pretty fast yes, but that object wouldnt create a crack that would deafin you.

FefnaGale wrote:its been a long time since i've played rifts. but this is one of many things thats bothered me. if the boom gun is a rail gun, meaning that it uses electromagnetic force to force the slugs/flechettes down range. why does it make a "boom" . ill find my old book and read up on it in depth again, but i wanna be lazy and ask the rift-heads for an explaination. is this more a game concept or something based in reality?

A REAL WORLD rail gun, if fired in the middle of a city will set-off car alarms for several blocks around from the sonic boom.

ANYTHING breaking the sound barrier will cause an audible sonic boom. Why do you think you hear a "crack" whenever a bull-whip snaps? 'Cause the tip has just broken the sound barrier.

As for why is it so loud...the faster you go, the louder the boom, and as someone else has noted, the flechettes are going m5!

As for the loud crack of a real-world firearm, the majority of that is the shell breaking the sound barrier. The sound of the cordite going off is not as loud as you might think - although it is not noisless by any means!



Oooo...and the REAL reason a boom gun causes such devestation... 'Cause it's a cool side effect and the writer (ie: God / KS) decided it would!

FefnaGale wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

read up and learn.

sigh, next you'll be asking why it has recoil if it doesn't use an explosive propellant.

while your "tone" isnt at all needed or warranted. recoil is not my question. the "deafening boom" is my issue.

maybe you need to read and learn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gun

and heres a current man-portable weapon that achieves closer muzzle velocities in OUR age. why would the boom gun "BOOM".
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,1 ... 9,,00.html

its just a joke. no offense intended. a year or so back we had a string of new posters asking why a railgun has recoil, if it doesn't use propellant. was interesting explaining Newtons laws to the people.

as for "boom", the real sound would be more of a "CRAK".
you've got 200 objects travelling at mach 5. the individual sonic booms wave forms would combine to create a deafening single sound, since wave forms amplify each others strength.

it all boils down to KS not researching sonic boom or railguns enough when writing the book, and just making it loud to make it "cool"

EDit:: anyone else thing that XM109 looks like the Cobra Assualt cannon for Robocop?

Hey GB...as per rule #34...

Alternate explanation: You're too close to the target when you pull the trigger!

very understandable about the "joke". my thing is this, many little slugs traveling that fast doesnt add up to me. ONE huge slug would make sense, not a buncha little ones though. maybe im thinking about his too much.

Hi there!

Actually, once I counted that from the given recoil,
and their original M2 speed, plus the armor own weigth
gave an ammo weight of 5 kg per round. (giving an
500 kg ammo supply, which is plausible).

Now, with M5 (which is still a bit slow IMO, since APFSDS tank
rounds do travel at that speed)...

...1000 boom gun rounds do weight 2 tons (metric tons).



But with M10, it would be 1 ton....

Adios
KLM

im just wondering why there arent any coil (or gauss) rifles in rifts. or maybe im outta the loop on this one.

FefnaGale wrote:im just wondering why there arent any coil (or gauss) rifles in rifts. or maybe im outta the loop on this one.

actually, the Boomgun (RG-14) on the glitterboy, by its design, would actually be a Coilgun.

again, its just a lack of research on palladiums part.

given the limitations of True rail guns (like the rails getting slowly destroyed every shot), its likely that all "rail guns" in RIFTS are actually variations on Coilguns.

of course, Rail guns in RIFTS actually behave like Conventional Propellant driven Weapons. (the BG's ejection port, "Gatling"s, referances to "increased pressure" loading systems in the Warlords ofrussia book, ect.) its likely that the orginal designs were conventional weapons, and the monniker "rail gun" was added to make it seem more Sci-Fi

The round moves at Mach 5.

~ Josh

Borast wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:its been a long time since i've played rifts. but this is one of many things thats bothered me. if the boom gun is a rail gun, meaning that it uses electromagnetic force to force the slugs/flechettes down range. why does it make a "boom" . ill find my old book and read up on it in depth again, but i wanna be lazy and ask the rift-heads for an explaination. is this more a game concept or something based in reality?

A REAL WORLD rail gun, if fired in the middle of a city will set-off car alarms for several blocks around from the sonic boom.

ANYTHING breaking the sound barrier will cause an audible sonic boom. Why do you think you hear a "crack" whenever a bull-whip snaps? 'Cause the tip has just broken the sound barrier.

As for why is it so loud...the faster you go, the louder the boom, and as someone else has noted, the flechettes are going m5!

As for the loud crack of a real-world firearm, the majority of that is the shell breaking the sound barrier. The sound of the cordite going off is not as loud as you might think - although it is not noisless by any means!



Oooo...and the REAL reason a boom gun causes such devestation... 'Cause it's a cool side effect and the writer (ie: God / KS) decided it would!

Though it uses cordite propellant, the 16inch guns on a modern battleship not only cause a sonic boom (and they go at only about mach 2'ish), the shockwave from those same cannons will suck the air away from the deck and gun room of the turret. When the shell goes over land, bricks will be knocked loose from buildings, trees will be 'nudged' over and troops will dump in their pants as they feel their bones rattle from the almighty screaming and 'crack' as the shell comes inbound. Remember, the 16 inch round is only going just above 2X's the speed of sound, but it's mass is about 2 tonnes (and that's a LOT of displaced air).
Now then. as Borast has stated...the slugs may only be a few ounces, but there are 200 of them in close formation...going at 5 X's the speed of sound (please note; air ionizes around a solid object at mach 4), with the resultant heating of air, intant displacement and re-placement of air along the path due to soild matter travelling through it, and the ionization of the air from friction (looking a lot like a lightning stroke).
Add all these together and you get a massive -KA-Frickin-BOOM- just like a 2 tonne battleship shell...and pity the poor bastich who's at ground zero without full EBA next to the Glitterboy when that firecracker goes off

Hi there!

For my part, I would say, that the sabot falls of like 100 meters
befoe impact - so some timing mechanism is incorporated, and
since a sub projectile of the Boom Gun is roughly equals a "normal"
railgun slug, I (as a GM) sell these babies like 300 cr per piece.

As a side note, and with some tinkering, the round can be set

a, premature opening, so it does smaller amount of damage,
but does in to an area - for anti-missile and anti-infantry purposes
(maybe some bonuses to hit, reduced damage and a generous,
cone shaped blast area)

b, no opening at all - anti-armor purposes
(penalty to hit, but damage is increaser to 4d6*10+20 or so)

And this way we spared some research work for NEMA
R&D teams too, since with this variation most "alternative"
ammo needs are eliminated.

Just my 2 cents...

Adios
KLM

AdeptPaladin wrote:Me and someone else batted this around for a while.

There are ways to counteract the wearing of the rails; a frictionless superlubricant that conducts the electric current; high-temperature superconductors, etc.

Just because we can't get over the heat and degradation problem doesn't mean Rifts-level tech hasn't

Well... the wear on the rails in a railgun isn't, I don't think, caused by friction heating, but rather by current heating, not to mention erosion due to plasma being generated, stuff like that. Not that friction is insignificant.

Hey! How Railguns Work! (included just for fun)

Qev wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:Me and someone else batted this around for a while.

There are ways to counteract the wearing of the rails; a frictionless superlubricant that conducts the electric current; high-temperature superconductors, etc.

Just because we can't get over the heat and degradation problem doesn't mean Rifts-level tech hasn't

Well... the wear on the rails in a railgun isn't, I don't think, caused by friction heating, but rather by current heating, not to mention erosion due to plasma being generated, stuff like that. Not that friction is insignificant.

Hey! How Railguns Work! (included just for fun)

Cool...yeah...
After reading the link, and reading a few of the earlier posts, the Boomgun would be a 'coilgun' or as it is more commonly known, 'mass-driver'. With the tech levels envisoned for "The golden Age" by Kevin Siembiada, high-temp superconducting rings would be able to impart enough power for the BG to have the same kinetic punch as a comparable railgun.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

C.R.A.F.T. wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propelled by a controlled chemical explosion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

read up and learn.

sigh, next you'll be asking why it has recoil if it doesn't use an explosive propellant.

No, but I've been wondering if it uses flechette rounds or just a bundle of slugs.

good question, actually. from the illustration, looks to be half/half. the bundles of slugs are just rods, sort of an unaerodynamic flechette round. when the sabot falls away (actually BURNS away, at those speeds it'll turn to plasma), the rodss would start to scatter a bit. not much though, at the speed it travels, and at the ranges it's listed as having, you'd still get a grouping of only a couple of inches.

think of it as a high speed, long range, point blank shotgunning.

:thwak: according to the illustration they are NOT rods. Rods are cylinders. Thes are taller than they are wide for lack of a better visual they're shaped like a stick of gum. Who's to say if the Sabot would melt? Depending if the gun actually uses the 'sabot' as an armiture for the rails it would turn to plasma as it left the barrel and not just from the speed. They never state what the 'sabot' is made of. How are non-aerodynamic objects going to be able to stay in a tight group since they're probably going to tumble and throw off their trajectory? Why don't you point to Qev's thread about Boomgun ammo?

Edit: Just thought of another reason that the grouping wouldn't be so tight. Everysingle flechette is creating it's own sonic shockwave once it is released from the sabot so there are what 200 sources of pressure change in a small area... you think that'll change trajectory much???

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

No all guns do not make a sonic boom. If they did a silencer would be completely useless as all they do is muffle the bang from the chemical propellant. A sonic boom is present while the object travels until it decelerates below mach. So in fact most weapons DO NOT create a sonic boom, they only produce a chemical bang.

Apparently all other railguns in Rifts don't break the sound barrier as the Boomgun is the only weapon that creates a defening boom (that should travel along the rounds entire trajectory.

Borast wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:its been a long time since i've played rifts. but this is one of many things thats bothered me. if the boom gun is a rail gun, meaning that it uses electromagnetic force to force the slugs/flechettes down range. why does it make a "boom" . ill find my old book and read up on it in depth again, but i wanna be lazy and ask the rift-heads for an explaination. is this more a game concept or something based in reality?

A REAL WORLD rail gun, if fired in the middle of a city will set-off car alarms for several blocks around from the sonic boom.

ANYTHING breaking the sound barrier will cause an audible sonic boom. Why do you think you hear a "crack" whenever a bull-whip snaps? 'Cause the tip has just broken the sound barrier.

As for why is it so loud...the faster you go, the louder the boom, and as someone else has noted, the flechettes are going m5!

As for the loud crack of a real-world firearm, the majority of that is the shell breaking the sound barrier. The sound of the cordite going off is not as loud as you might think - although it is not noisless by any means!



Oooo...and the REAL reason a boom gun causes such devestation... 'Cause it's a cool side effect and the writer (ie: God / KS) decided it would!

Hey here is a thought... one object going mach five creates a sonic boom... would 200 objects going mach five create a louder boom? Sonic boom side effect from boom gun... apply it to entire trajectory of the rounds' path... even those around the target are deafened.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

read up and learn.

sigh, next you'll be asking why it has recoil if it doesn't use an explosive propellant.

while your "tone" isnt at all needed or warranted. recoil is not my question. the "deafening boom" is my issue.

maybe you need to read and learn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gun

and heres a current man-portable weapon that achieves closer muzzle velocities in OUR age. why would the boom gun "BOOM".
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,1 ... 9,,00.html

its just a joke. no offense intended. a year or so back we had a string of new posters asking why a railgun has recoil, if it doesn't use propellant. was interesting explaining Newtons laws to the people.

as for "boom", the real sound would be more of a "CRAK".
you've got 200 objects travelling at mach 5. the individual sonic booms wave forms would combine to create a deafening single sound, since wave forms amplify each others strength.

it all boils down to KS not researching sonic boom or railguns enough when writing the book, and just making it loud to make it "cool"

EDit:: anyone else thing that XM109 looks like the Cobra Assualt cannon for Robocop?

OK we have sound waves amplifying what do 200 high and low pressure areas do in such a close area and what do 200 sonic shock waves do and why is it really important?

AdeptPaladin wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:im just wondering why there arent any coil (or gauss) rifles in rifts. or maybe im outta the loop on this one.

actually, the Boomgun (RG-14) on the glitterboy, by its design, would actually be a Coilgun.

again, its just a lack of research on palladiums part.

given the limitations of True rail guns (like the rails getting slowly destroyed every shot), its likely that all "rail guns" in RIFTS are actually variations on Coilguns.

of course, Rail guns in RIFTS actually behave like Conventional Propellant driven Weapons. (the BG's ejection port, "Gatling"s, referances to "increased pressure" loading systems in the Warlords ofrussia book, ect.) its likely that the orginal designs were conventional weapons, and the monniker "rail gun" was added to make it seem more Sci-Fi

Me and someone else batted this around for a while.

There are ways to counteract the wearing of the rails; a frictionless superlubricant that conducts the electric current; high-temperature superconductors, etc.

Just because we can't get over the heat and degradation problem doesn't mean Rifts-level tech hasn't

You and someone... wasn't by any chance me on Qev's thread? Geez how hard is it to remember two characters 0-K say it with me 0-K ok now I'm one of CK's sigs geez just kidding wasn't there something about the rails having micro-pores in it?

Qev wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:Me and someone else batted this around for a while.

There are ways to counteract the wearing of the rails; a frictionless superlubricant that conducts the electric current; high-temperature superconductors, etc.

Just because we can't get over the heat and degradation problem doesn't mean Rifts-level tech hasn't

Well... the wear on the rails in a railgun isn't, I don't think, caused by friction heating, but rather by current heating, not to mention erosion due to plasma being generated, stuff like that. Not that friction is insignificant.

Hey! How Railguns Work! (included just for fun)

Hey Qev point em to your thread! Took you long enough to join in. Hey don't forget about the occasionaly welding of the armiture to the rail. Didn't we figure that the Boomgun was the only actual railgun in Rifts and all the rest were Coilguns? Due to rates of fire, power output and some other semi interesting qualifiers?

DhAkael wrote:

Qev wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:Me and someone else batted this around for a while.

There are ways to counteract the wearing of the rails; a frictionless superlubricant that conducts the electric current; high-temperature superconductors, etc.

Just because we can't get over the heat and degradation problem doesn't mean Rifts-level tech hasn't

Well... the wear on the rails in a railgun isn't, I don't think, caused by friction heating, but rather by current heating, not to mention erosion due to plasma being generated, stuff like that. Not that friction is insignificant.

Hey! How Railguns Work! (included just for fun)

Cool...yeah...
After reading the link, and reading a few of the earlier posts, the Boomgun would be a 'coilgun' or as it is more commonly known, 'mass-driver'. With the tech levels envisoned for "The golden Age" by Kevin Siembiada, high-temp superconducting rings would be able to impart enough power for the BG to have the same kinetic punch as a comparable railgun.

How do you get that the BG would be coil? Rail, though more easily damaged can impart more energy.

Finally to my serial posts I end with... a new Railgun concept. Gatling... in design not function. Because Railguns do have errosion, pitting and welding problems the system can be set up with several other rail systems that will move into place if the previous pair are damaged. The other 'pairs' don't even need to be complete pairs because unless a rail is completely destroyed the 'back' of it will still be useable. For example with just four rails you have the innitial set plus three 'spares' instead of requireing a total of eight rails. If a rail is completley destroyed in the above example then you'd only have two 'spares' which face it, is still better than none.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

No all guns do not make a sonic boom. If they did a silencer would be completely useless as all they do is muffle the bang from the chemical propellant. A sonic boom is present while the object travels until it decelerates below mach. So in fact most weapons DO NOT create a sonic boom, they only produce a chemical bang.

Apparently all other railguns in Rifts don't break the sound barrier as the Boomgun is the only weapon that creates a defening boom (that should travel along the rounds entire trajectory.

no, sound suppressers muffle the initial chemical propelant , but the bullet still travels at supersonic speeds, unless you are using sub-sonic ammo. the bullet whizzing over your head will still make a crack after the sound passes you.

FefnaGale wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

FefnaGale wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:The rounds travel out of the gun at mach 5 thus causing a sonic boom because the rounds just broke the sound barrier.

yes, but ALL guns do that now and have for 100 years. but those are propeled by a controlled chemical explosion .

No all guns do not make a sonic boom. If they did a silencer would be completely useless as all they do is muffle the bang from the chemical propellant. A sonic boom is present while the object travels until it decelerates below mach. So in fact most weapons DO NOT create a sonic boom, they only produce a chemical bang.

Apparently all other railguns in Rifts don't break the sound barrier as the Boomgun is the only weapon that creates a defening boom (that should travel along the rounds entire trajectory.

no, sound suppressers muffle the initial chemical propelant , but the bullet still travels at supersonic speeds, unless you are using sub-sonic ammo. the bullet whizzing over your head will still make a crack after the sound passes you.

most 9mm are subsonic the .22s are subsonic... unless you consider the M-16's round a .22 the Suppressed AWP uses subsonic. If you use a silencer you usually use subsonic as there would be no point if you didn't. "Ah ha they won't hear me shoot... *BANG* what the "

Hehe, I would imagine all 'railguns' in Rifts are probably coilguns, including the Boom Gun, as the wear and tear on the rails would probably necessitate so much maintenance as to make them unwieldly. And hey, I'm sure they've got some pretty spiffy high-temperature superconducting magnets, which would probably clear up the power disparity between coilguns and railguns quite neatly. Also, not that I expect the authors to be all that familiar with railgun design, the sabot/armature of the Boom Gun round would never work in an actual railgun, but could possibly work in a coilgun.

Really, a Mach 5 railgun round wouldn't make all that much noise. I mean, sure, it's going supersonic (or is that hypersonic? I forget where the cutoff is), but the shockwave isn't going to be anywhere close to the size of one caused by an object the size of say, an F-16 Hornet, travelling supersonic.

Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now), has a muzzle velocity of nearly Mach 2.75 (roughly 900 m/s), so it's definitely making a sonic boom when it fires. Heck, even the MP-5 has a muzzle velocity greater than the speed of sound. Lots of guns fire supersonic rounds.

A silencer is only going to be effective if the round is travelling slower than sound. Of course, the silencer itself tends to slow the rounds as well as containing the expanding gasses, so even (slightly) supersonic rounds can be silenced.

There's another way to go about silencing a weapon: during the Cold War, those clever Russians came up with silenced ammunition!

Qev wrote:Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now)....

It's been an M16A2 for some time. It's basically identical to the M16A1 which was functionally identical to ( and base doff of ) the Russian AK-47.
I've never heard of ANYONE in the army being issued an Armalite AR-15.

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Qev wrote:Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now)....

It's been an M16A2 for some time. It's basically identical to the M16A1 which was functionally identical to ( and base doff of ) the Russian AK-47.
I've never heard of ANYONE in the army being issued an Armalite AR-15.

(Off topic) Does the M16A2 have a forward assist assembly, like the civilian M16A1?

(On topic) Are the rounds shot from the GB MDC? If so, wouldn't that change the factors of rounds breaking apart after being fired?

Qev wrote:Hehe, I would imagine all 'railguns' in Rifts are probably coilguns, including the Boom Gun, as the wear and tear on the rails would probably necessitate so much maintenance as to make them unwieldly. And hey, I'm sure they've got some pretty spiffy high-temperature superconducting magnets, which would probably clear up the power disparity between coilguns and railguns quite neatly. Also, not that I expect the authors to be all that familiar with railgun design, the sabot/armature of the Boom Gun round would never work in an actual railgun, but could possibly work in a coilgun.

Really, a Mach 5 railgun round wouldn't make all that much noise. I mean, sure, it's going supersonic (or is that hypersonic? I forget where the cutoff is), but the shockwave isn't going to be anywhere close to the size of one caused by an object the size of say, an F-16 Hornet, travelling supersonic.

Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now), has a muzzle velocity of nearly Mach 2.75 (roughly 900 m/s), so it's definitely making a sonic boom when it fires. Heck, even the MP-5 has a muzzle velocity greater than the speed of sound. Lots of guns fire supersonic rounds.

A silencer is only going to be effective if the round is travelling slower than sound. Of course, the silencer itself tends to slow the rounds as well as containing the expanding gasses, so even (slightly) supersonic rounds can be silenced.

There's another way to go about silencing a weapon: during the Cold War, those clever Russians came up with silenced ammunition!

Wow that is an interesting cartridge. The current railgun being tested by the USAF makes noise when fired all though that may be caused by breaking contact from the rails. Much like how pulling an active circuit from an outlet sometimes makes noise. As far as rails being troublesome... yeah but so is overheating barrels but we overcome that with replaceable barrels. I think that would be a neat detriment to the Boomgun and maybe even increase the fire rate to maybe a 'burst' of two per action, but require after x number of shots 10 or 5 the barrel needs to be changed taking special equipment to change out. This would likely be a FQ mod since FQ has the GB support crew and vehicles.

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Qev wrote:Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now)....

It's been an M16A2 for some time. It's basically identical to the M16A1 which was functionally identical to ( and base doff of ) the Russian AK-47.
I've never heard of ANYONE in the army being issued an Armalite AR-15.

If you look at the serials of the M16s they are AR-15s it says so. The M-16A2 has a flash compensator instead of a flash supressor. The difference is instead of having the slits all the way around the muzzle it only has three pointing up so that it also acts as a compensator plus it doesn't kick sand up like the A1 did. The A2 also has a round hand guard with enhanced cooling vents instead of the triangle guards. The round guards also can be mounted either way making assembly easier. Where do you get that the M-16 was based off the AK? The AK is a higher caliber weapon where, intelligently, parts have to be added to the semi model to make it automatic instead of the AR-15 where a part just has to be filed to make it automatic. The current weapon of the US Army is the M4 Carbine which is more useful in the close quarter fighting the soldiers seem to find themselves in these days. Oh and the 'handle' isn't, It's an accessory mount if the gun is fired often the 'handle' will heat up and can cause burns... I have one to proove it, thats what I get for playing op-for.

Res Sin Kai wrote:

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Qev wrote:Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now)....

It's been an M16A2 for some time. It's basically identical to the M16A1 which was functionally identical to ( and base doff of ) the Russian AK-47.
I've never heard of ANYONE in the army being issued an Armalite AR-15.

(Off topic) Does the M16A2 have a forward assist assembly, like the civilian M16A1?

(On topic) Are the rounds shot from the GB MDC? If so, wouldn't that change the factors of rounds breaking apart after being fired?

Uh... yes but I didn't know there was a civilian M16 I thought only the AR-15 was available to the public. Like the 10 round magazine is supposed to be the only magazine available to the public while the 30 round is the common used by military forces.

How would the GB rounds being MDC deal with the sabot releasing the 200 flechettes?

I always figured that the Boom Gun was a true railgun, but the all the other 'railguns' in Rifts such as the C-40R and the other Gatling varieties were in fact hybrids inbetween autocannons / machineguns and true railguns / coilguns.

As hybrids, most railguns in Rifts appear to use conventional cartridges / casings with chemical propellants. I'm figuring that after the initial push from the standard fuse, the round is then accelerated as it travels down the barrel using either railgun or coilguns techniques. Using a hybrid system, the power requirements for the 'boost' would be less than on a true railgun, and would also account for the muzzle flash, ejected casings, noise, and inaccuracy of Rifts railguns.

Just my .02 credits.

Hi there!

Seeing the SAMAS stats in CE and RMB shows,
that the C-40R Samas rail-gun is the inferior
knock-off of the USA-40R "geniune".

And it does not have casings.

The Boom Gun is - partly - so powerfull, because
it is BIG - ie. longer barrel -> greater projectile
speed. (Anyway, it is not the Boom Gun what
is too powerfull, but the giant robots are too
nerfed IMO. By all account, the Spider Skull
Walker's railguns should be more powerfull, than
the Boom Gun.)

But NGR ones do seem to be hybrid ones.
Another hybrid theory is the "electrothermal
enhancement".

Pirated from CPunk, it works by replacing gunpowder
with water or similar liquid, and during firing have a
powerfull electric arc throught it. The arc will create
(in the case of water) heated hydrogen and oxigen
gasses, which propell the projectile like gunpowder
(cordite, whatever) gasses.
The main difference is that chemical explosion creates
a pressure "spike" in the early stage, and then the
pressure gradually drops in the barrel/chamber.
In the case of ETE, the eletric arc can be controlled,
so the highest pressure can be in the safe domain,
while the overall pressure can be kept high
(and without overloading the barrel).

Also, there should be some purely chemical
guns, since most new "railguns" do not reguire
nuclear energy packs...

Adios
KLM

Another 2 cents into the hat...

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Qev wrote:Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now)....

It's been an M16A2 for some time. It's basically identical to the M16A1 which was functionally identical to ( and base doff of ) the Russian AK-47.
I've never heard of ANYONE in the army being issued an Armalite AR-15.

Oh wait... I guess the AR-15 was the civilian version, wasn't it? Er...

AdeptPaladin wrote:Qev, as for whether or not the weapons are coil guns or not, one must keep in mind that coil guns are not capable of putting as much power or are as efficent as rail guns. Given that the Boom Gun does the most damage of all, it most definitely has more power and thrust which would make it, IMO, a rail gun. The rest would likely be coil or Gauss guns.

Well, modern coilguns aren't capable of producing as high velocities as a railgun... but this is Rifts. I can see how coilguns are fundamentally limited, compared to rails... but I think I'd take the extra reliability over the extra power in combat, when it comes to my only weapon!

Has anyone even made a superconducting coilgun, yet? Tha'd be savage.

Say, did you know you can make a 'coilgun' ('magnetic accelerator' is probably a better term in this case) using permanent magnets? It's so mind-bogglingly simple, and yet I would never have thought of it.

i've just chalked it up to a cool rpg PA with a big ass gun. the heck with science and real world comparisons. im just gonna make cool TW gadjets to help my bud out. gonna work on a TW recoil suppression system.

fenrir wrote:I did and its pretty interesting.


(By the way what is a coil gun)

Wikipedia article discussing coilguns.

And OMG, quench guns sound awesome. Where can I get one?

The permanent magnet accelerator I encountered was effectively a clever combination of rare-earth magnets and an executive toy. Check it out!

Qev wrote:

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Qev wrote:Just so you know, the US Army's (I think) standard issue assault rifle, the Armalite AR-15 (or whatever they're calling it now)....

It's been an M16A2 for some time. It's basically identical to the M16A1 which was functionally identical to ( and base doff of ) the Russian AK-47.
I've never heard of ANYONE in the army being issued an Armalite AR-15.

Oh wait... I guess the AR-15 was the civilian version, wasn't it? Er...

All M-16 when you read the side still say AR-15 on it they are still AR-15s their military designator is just M-16

Supposedly it's the sonic boom that occurs when the gun is fired.

...and that was my issue . a "rail-gun" accelerating(not firing) 200 flechettes making that much noise doesnt make sense to me. if it was a large mass, i could almost "see" it. but the flechettes couldnt be huge ( not even bigger than .22 cal bullet) . the "boom" couldnt be that concussive.

FefnaGale wrote:...and that was my issue . a "rail-gun" accelerating(not firing) 200 flechettes making that much noise doesnt make sense to me. if it was a large mass, i could almost "see" it. but the flechettes couldnt be huge ( not even bigger than .22 cal bullet) . the "boom" couldnt be that concussive.

It accelerates the sabot/armature to mach 5 which is discarded once it leaves the barrel releasing 200 flechettes. So initially the object causing the boom would have a large cross section but once it releases the 200 submunitions there are multiple small cross sections. Maybe that is why the boom only effects the area around the gun?

ok, you guys are not understanding, the inital projectile itself is THAT big and the released flechettes would should like a "crakle" over your head.

i've seen footage of rail guns in action. the "noise" it produced was a loud hum and the launching did produce anything louder than a large caliber rifle. i've seen this on the TLC and discovery channels. no camera shaking, no reference to any louder than normal noise. and a long tunsten rod (over 12" atleast) used as ammo. the recoil and damage it does is not may issue. its the signature "boom".

is there a minimum range of the boomgun? i've never seen one printed , so can anyone let me know if there is one.

so the boomgun must be more akin to a shotgun . where would the sabot discard if you shot someone at pointblank range?

Hi there!

I guess when you fire the Boom Gun on
someone from point blank, he can have the
sabot too. Maybe the package does not
open, so the target get only one hole in
it.

Lucky b*****d

Adios
KLM

KLM wrote:Hi there!

I guess when you fire the Boom Gun on
someone from point blank, he can have the
sabot too. Maybe the package does not
open, so the target get only one hole in
it.

Lucky b*****d

Adios
KLM

:lol: Yeah instead of =<200 holes . big you end up with one hole O this big