JA-12 laser rifle
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:18 pm
why does this weapon lose its strike bonus when pulse blasting? its a fricking laser beam!
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how? with one trigger squeeze you put out 3 shots and once again. LASERS HAVE NO RECOIL!!! even if you had to feather the trigger, there would be no loss in accuracy for an experienced sniper.Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
FefnaGale wrote:how? with one trigger squeeze you put out 3 shots and once again. LASERS HAVE NO RECOIL!!! even if you had to feather the trigger, there would be no loss in accuracy for an experienced sniper.Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
wolfe wrote:Qev wrote:Well, personally, I'm of the opinion that bursts should get a bonus to hit, and reduced damage; and aimed shots should get a penalty to hit, but a bonus to damage...
makes sense that way don't it..
korjik wrote:Call it BS if you want, but since I have to check expansion coefficents to make sure that the insulators dont crack on the probes I stick in the plasma rocket I work with, and since I have gotten an M60 so hot I couldnt target cause of the heat shimmer off the barrel, I do think that heat would be a big problem for most energy weapons.
FefnaGale wrote:why does this weapon lose its strike bonus when pulse blasting? its a fricking laser beam!
Kagashi wrote:Stop trying to bring reality into Palladium games. It just makes your head hurt. Enjoy it for what it is.
Colt47 wrote:Ok, you don't get a bonus on the pulse shot because you have to keep the extended beam pinned on the target. It's not recoil related at all. The guy is trying to avoid your shots.
FefnaGale wrote:how? with one trigger squeeze you put out 3 shots and once again. LASERS HAVE NO RECOIL!!! even if you had to feather the trigger, there would be no loss in accuracy for an experienced sniper.Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Danger wrote:FefnaGale wrote:how? with one trigger squeeze you put out 3 shots and once again. LASERS HAVE NO RECOIL!!! even if you had to feather the trigger, there would be no loss in accuracy for an experienced sniper.Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Experienced snipers generally use single shot weapons. Not automatic firing weapons.
Kagashi wrote:Danger wrote:FefnaGale wrote:how? with one trigger squeeze you put out 3 shots and once again. LASERS HAVE NO RECOIL!!! even if you had to feather the trigger, there would be no loss in accuracy for an experienced sniper.Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Experienced snipers generally use single shot weapons. Not automatic firing weapons.
Doesn't it say in the description that the pulses are so close together it might as well be a single shot?
Killer Cyborg wrote:Kagashi wrote:Danger wrote:FefnaGale wrote:how? with one trigger squeeze you put out 3 shots and once again. LASERS HAVE NO RECOIL!!! even if you had to feather the trigger, there would be no loss in accuracy for an experienced sniper.Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Experienced snipers generally use single shot weapons. Not automatic firing weapons.
Doesn't it say in the description that the pulses are so close together it might as well be a single shot?
Yes.
if that laser has a selector , then there shouldnt be any penalty. you keep making the mistake of comparing this to a chemical slug thrower. the theory and operation are completely different.Danger wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:Kagashi wrote:Danger wrote:FefnaGale wrote:how? with one trigger squeeze you put out 3 shots and once again. LASERS HAVE NO RECOIL!!! even if you had to feather the trigger, there would be no loss in accuracy for an experienced sniper.Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Experienced snipers generally use single shot weapons. Not automatic firing weapons.
Doesn't it say in the description that the pulses are so close together it might as well be a single shot?
Yes.
But it isn't.
We have weapons today that fire so fast it sounds like only one shot is being fired, but they're really doing short bursts. Same thing.
The penalty still applies.
Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Zer0 Kay wrote:Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Lets try WHY even by the book it states that the pulse appears as one beam. So if you don't actually have to pull and release the trigger (which would through off aim) then all pulses hit the same target without moving and before you can even breath... or exhale (which is the opposite of your trigger pull state) so it doesn't matter. Even if Rifts lasers did produce recoil there is examples of how fast cyclic rates (I'd consider pulsed lasers with each pulse following yactoseconds behind the previous) won't cause a kick until the last round is out of the barrel. The H&K G-11 fires a three round burst much slower than that and the kick from the burst isn't felt until the third round is already out of the barrel.
I'm not, I'm just saying that the lack of bonus has nothing to do with the pulse or the shooter. Maybe the electronic scope bugs out and looses power due to the higher power consumption.Danger wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Danger wrote:It has nothing to do with recoil. It's targeting. You're still trying to hit a single target with more than one shot. Thus, you lose some accuracy.
Lets try WHY even by the book it states that the pulse appears as one beam. So if you don't actually have to pull and release the trigger (which would through off aim) then all pulses hit the same target without moving and before you can even breath... or exhale (which is the opposite of your trigger pull state) so it doesn't matter. Even if Rifts lasers did produce recoil there is examples of how fast cyclic rates (I'd consider pulsed lasers with each pulse following yactoseconds behind the previous) won't cause a kick until the last round is out of the barrel. The H&K G-11 fires a three round burst much slower than that and the kick from the burst isn't felt until the third round is already out of the barrel.
Why are people still trying to argue to get their full bonus to strike with a pulse?
Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:You loose accuracy because lasers make no noise.
Now let me explain this, you see, when you fire the JA12 your character automatically goes: "Pshooo" or "Zap" or "Bang", etc, to make up for the lack of noise. Making such sounds in rapid succession throws off his or her accuracy.
~ Josh ( )
Richter wrote:Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:You loose accuracy because lasers make no noise.
Now let me explain this, you see, when you fire the JA12 your character automatically goes: "Pshooo" or "Zap" or "Bang", etc, to make up for the lack of noise. Making such sounds in rapid succession throws off his or her accuracy.
~ Josh ( )
This is all I needed to hear, I think this conversation is over, and answered, 100% accurately!
Killer Cyborg wrote:Since a the shots in a laser pulse are only a microsecond apart, to the point that it looks like a single beam, there is no good reason to lose the strike bonus.
But them's the rules.
Noon wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:Since a the shots in a laser pulse are only a microsecond apart, to the point that it looks like a single beam, there is no good reason to lose the strike bonus.
But them's the rules.
Shouldn't that be "I think the shots in a laser pulse are only a microsecond apart,"
Lord_Coake wrote:Wow. A simultaneous pulse from a single charging chamber and capacitor, that can somehow focus three separate pulses of high-intesity energy through a single focusing lens in one shot. An not blow the whole thing apart from the attempt.
*Boots the laws of physics out the door*
I work with lasers all the time. Trying something like this would not only blow the entire assemply to pieces, but shatter the lenses, burn out the capacitor, frag all the control circuitry, and if standing close enough, kill you with very, VERY high voltage electricity in the process.
And since this a RIFLE we're talking about, it'll be either on your hip or next to you skull when you set it off.
Bye-bye. Make a new character.
Lord_Coake wrote:I dunno, the industrial lasers I work with on a daily basis can cut 1 inch steel at a speed of about six feet per minute. Thats pretty intense.
It is a 20000 volt laser that pumps out 1.5 mega-ohms at 6.3 amps. It's a beast.
I think the JA-12 is this thing...scaled down to rifle size. Yikes.
Killer Cyborg wrote:Lord_Coake wrote:Wow. A simultaneous pulse from a single charging chamber and capacitor, that can somehow focus three separate pulses of high-intesity energy through a single focusing lens in one shot. An not blow the whole thing apart from the attempt.
*Boots the laws of physics out the door*
I work with lasers all the time. Trying something like this would not only blow the entire assemply to pieces, but shatter the lenses, burn out the capacitor, frag all the control circuitry, and if standing close enough, kill you with very, VERY high voltage electricity in the process.
And since this a RIFLE we're talking about, it'll be either on your hip or next to you skull when you set it off.
Bye-bye. Make a new character.
Can you make a laser rifle of the kind of power the JA-12 is supposed to be capable of?
Probably not.
Obviously, the tech in Rifts uses technology so advanced that our puny minds cannot comprehend how it works; we see the physics of it as impossible, even stupid.... yet it somehow works....
(Translation: Doesn't make any sense to me either)
Kagashi wrote:Did you guys know that magic is not real? Yet we pretend it is real when we play this game....
How is that different to just accepting that the darn weapon breaks the laws of physics in our real world, but it makes perfect sense in Palladium?
This weapon sucks anyway. Its just a laser that does a lot of damage. Its a ROLL playing weapon. Not a ROLE playing weapon. Challange yourself and make a vagabond with the cooking skill (as presented in the latest Rifter...cool skill by the way) armed with nothing but a Wilks laser pistol, an SDC knife in your boot, a .22 derringer, and a partial suit of Plastic man armor (just the chest plate). Oh yea, and a spatula. Now thats role playing!
Kagashi wrote:Did you guys know that magic is not real? Yet we pretend it is real when we play this game....
How is that different to just accepting that the darn weapon breaks the laws of physics in our real world, but it makes perfect sense in Palladium?
This weapon sucks anyway. Its just a laser that does a lot of damage. Its a ROLL playing weapon. Not a ROLE playing weapon. Challange yourself and make a vagabond with the cooking skill (as presented in the latest Rifter...cool skill by the way) armed with nothing but a Wilks laser pistol, an SDC knife in your boot, a .22 derringer, and a partial suit of Plastic man armor (just the chest plate). Oh yea, and a spatula. Now thats role playing!
Kagashi wrote:Did you guys know that magic is not real? Yet we pretend it is real when we play this game....
How is that different to just accepting that the darn weapon breaks the laws of physics in our real world, but it makes perfect sense in Palladium?
This weapon sucks anyway. Its just a laser that does a lot of damage. Its a ROLL playing weapon. Not a ROLE playing weapon. Challange yourself and make a vagabond with the cooking skill (as presented in the latest Rifter...cool skill by the way) armed with nothing but a Wilks laser pistol, an SDC knife in your boot, a .22 derringer, and a partial suit of Plastic man armor (just the chest plate). Oh yea, and a spatula. Now thats role playing!
Kalinda wrote:Kagashi wrote:Did you guys know that magic is not real? Yet we pretend it is real when we play this game....
How is that different to just accepting that the darn weapon breaks the laws of physics in our real world, but it makes perfect sense in Palladium?
This weapon sucks anyway. Its just a laser that does a lot of damage. Its a ROLL playing weapon. Not a ROLE playing weapon. Challange yourself and make a vagabond with the cooking skill (as presented in the latest Rifter...cool skill by the way) armed with nothing but a Wilks laser pistol, an SDC knife in your boot, a .22 derringer, and a partial suit of Plastic man armor (just the chest plate). Oh yea, and a spatula. Now thats role playing!
The vagabond in RUE is totaly munchkin, they get armor for cripes sakes! In my day we played unarmored vagabonds with sharp sticks and we liked it!
Rimmerdal wrote:Kalinda wrote:Kagashi wrote:Did you guys know that magic is not real? Yet we pretend it is real when we play this game....
How is that different to just accepting that the darn weapon breaks the laws of physics in our real world, but it makes perfect sense in Palladium?
This weapon sucks anyway. Its just a laser that does a lot of damage. Its a ROLL playing weapon. Not a ROLE playing weapon. Challange yourself and make a vagabond with the cooking skill (as presented in the latest Rifter...cool skill by the way) armed with nothing but a Wilks laser pistol, an SDC knife in your boot, a .22 derringer, and a partial suit of Plastic man armor (just the chest plate). Oh yea, and a spatula. Now thats role playing!
The vagabond in RUE is totaly munchkin, they get armor for cripes sakes! In my day we played unarmored vagabonds with sharp sticks and we liked it!
Now they have sharp sticks AND Tupperware body armor...Progress is funny isn't it?
Kalinda wrote:The vagabond in RUE is totaly munchkin, they get armor for cripes sakes! In my day we played unarmored vagabonds with sharp sticks and we liked it!