Mutants Down Under discussion...

[Kalinda]

The Rifts bashing aside, They've go the right of it. TMNT and ATB both rock mightily.

TMNT wasn't my first RPG, but it was pretty close, and i have some fond memorys of it.

[Marrowlight]

Hrm, while I have a list of issues with Palladium rules at times I'm always amazed every time I see a thread on those forums. Nothing is unplayable, despite some of the I saw on those posts (well cept maybe Synnibar) it is usually just the failing on the part of the GM's and Players to actually work things out properly.


Good luck if you go for a new ATB book though -- just finish China 3 first.

[CyCo]

Interesting that in amongst the hordes there at rpg.net, there are a few who hate Palladium games, but still have some feelings towards TMNT&OS.

[Kalinda]

Interesting that in amongst the hordes there at rpg.net, there are a few who hate Palladium games, but still have some feelings towards TMNT&OS.

That's because it was one of the best games of it's time, and still holds up surprisingly well after 20 years. Even total dinks can recognize a classic when they see one.

[maasenstodt]

As somebody who spends a bit more time over at RPGnet than here, I'd say that, generally speaking, Palladium doesn't get bashed over there anywhere near as much as many on this board would like to think. Indeed, I probably read roughly the same amount of unnecessary bashing (whether it's Palladium, D20, or whatever else) in each forum. And while RPGnet certainly has its faults, the amount of rabid fanboy-ism that one encounters here is enough to make me shake my head in disgust at times.

As for your Rifts comments, macksting, I think the lack of response just comes down to fewer people caring one way or the other about the game any more. My opinion is that today Palladium caters more to dedicated Palladium gamers and less to the broader RPG market. Unlike when the company could draw people in with cool licenses and when Rifts was still fresh and full of potential, nowadays the number of people willing to give Palladium's baroque mechanics a spin has dwindled. Opportunities to tackle this problem by streamlining the increasingly piled upon ruleset in RUE and elsewhere have been eschewed in favor of the status quo. Thus, Rifts (and Palladium in general) just isn't much of a hot topic anymore. People have concluded that its best days are behind it, and have moved on. After all, as those who spend much time on RPGnet likely know, there is a stream of cool and inventive new games being released that are deserving of attention.

Back to AtB and TMNT, there's no doubt about the nostalgia held for these games. They are indeed classics, and they can still be fun to take out for a spin. That said, I wish the number of people who have commented on the archaic mechanics or called for conversions to other systems would be given more attention. For while Palladium can probably get by for a long time with its existing cadre of hard core fans, its chances for long term growth depend to an extent, I think, on showing some imagination when it comes to the "Megaversal" ruleset.

All of that said, I'll echo here my comment made at RPGnet: Erick, seeing anything new for AtB would be terrific!

[maasenstodt]

Gotta admit, nostalgia isn't something I quite understand, not the way most people apply it. When I play Chrono Trigger, I play it because it's a lovely game. There's a certain love placed into the graphics which allows it to stand the test of time. I won't extend quite the same comments to Mario 1.

Same goes for roleplaying games; I play them on percieved merits, not nostalgia. So for me, TMNT is just a good game with a playable system.

That's an understandable point of view. For some of us who have gaming experience measured not in years but in decades, revisiting the games we enjoyed as kids can be both enjoyable and educational. Often-times, it provides a good deal of perspective on how much things have changed (or even stayed the same) since our youth. But the difference is probably best shown by the fact that every few years, I still enjoy playing some archaic NES titles. So there you go...

Anyway, semantics aside, I do find your statements sad, as that same lack of understanding and common ground with other people is what has me occasionally trying to drag people into a Rifts game. To me, when something's good, it needn't be new to be enjoyed. If nothing else, I'm a fairly recent convert to the Palladium line as a whole, having had an aforementioned two really bad Rifts games to put behind me for the current campaigns.
*shrugs* I guess, again, it's just a lack of common ground, and partially explains the reticence of others to join such a game. Luckily, I've had a lot more luck with TMNT, and apparently not purely on its nostalgia merits!

I completely agree that new does not equal good, but just as you made the point about the original Mario Bros. not being something you'd want to revisit - even though in its day it was a hit - many people have the same feeling about games using the Palladium ruleset. That is, the system just doesn't hold up today. It's all subjective, of course, but I find that opinion to dominate outside of Palladium's hard core group of fans.

I myself still enjoy some of Palladium's games, but as a fan of many other games as well, I can absolutely see how poorly the mechanics of this system have aged, and I can understand the perspective of those who have largely given up on it. Moreover, when it comes to Rifts, I think the flavor of the setting has also changed, turning many gamers off.

In sum, I think you're right about the lack of common ground. Palladium gamers are somewhat like video gamers dedicated to an old console like the NES or somesuch. They enjoy the games they play and the mechanics behind them, even if most of the rest of the market has moved on. And bully for them. If you enjoy what you're playing, there's not a thing wrong with it. But trying to get other gamers to take a step backwards can undoubtedly be a difficult proposition, as I think both of us have found.

[Kalinda]

After reading through that thread I really want to try ATB and TMNT. Wish there was a way to buy them all. You don't need TMNT to play ATB do you?

Dome

You need TMNT to play 1st Ed AtB, but 2nd Ed is a stand alone game. PB published the original AtB as a supplement to TMNT. later they lost the licence for TMNT, but AtB was still their property, so EW updated it and they published it as a new edition.

[Kalinda]

After reading through that thread I really want to try ATB and TMNT. Wish there was a way to buy them all. You don't need TMNT to play ATB do you?

Dome

You need TMNT to play 1st Ed AtB, but 2nd Ed is a stand alone game. PB published the original AtB as a supplement to TMNT. later they lost the licence for TMNT, but AtB was still their property, so EW updated it and they published it as a new edition.

and the ATB suppliments (with very minor tweaking) still allows the use of the animals from those books for 2nd Ed ATB

Lynx

Yes, forgot to mention that cool aspect, everything written for TMNT is compatible with 2ed AtB.

Thanks Lynx.

[acreRake]

Wish there was a way to buy them all.

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATB&Category_Code=Sale

[gordyzx9r]

Last year I read an post apocalypse book that dealt alot with Australia...airplanes played a big part, and whatever kingdoms had them signified their power in the world (a kingdom was lucky to have one, the more powerful may have had as many as a dozen, with rich merchants having one or two to move goods). For some reason, that I can't remember...the kingdoms of North American banded together to send an aerial expedition to Australia (I can't remember for the life of me why they wanted to though)...

[CyCo]

Last year I read an post apocalypse book that dealt alot with Australia...airplanes played a big part, and whatever kingdoms had them signified their power in the world (a kingdom was lucky to have one, the more powerful may have had as many as a dozen, with rich merchants having one or two to move goods). For some reason, that I can't remember...the kingdoms of North American banded together to send an aerial expedition to Australia (I can't remember for the life of me why they wanted to though)...

Sounds cool dude, any chance of getting a title and name of the author?

[gordyzx9r]

Last year I read an post apocalypse book that dealt alot with Australia...airplanes played a big part, and whatever kingdoms had them signified their power in the world (a kingdom was lucky to have one, the more powerful may have had as many as a dozen, with rich merchants having one or two to move goods). For some reason, that I can't remember...the kingdoms of North American banded together to send an aerial expedition to Australia (I can't remember for the life of me why they wanted to though)...

Sounds cool dude, any chance of getting a title and name of the author?

In about two years when I get back to the states and get my stuff out of storage...I honestly can't remember the author or title...it may have had the word Barons in the title though.